Poll: "Lack of skill" of other players is not a legit justification for being an asshole

[Aeonknight]

your comparison between GTA:Online and Battlefield is about as Apples/Oranges as it gets. In GTA:O, yea you're not going to stand a chance when it's your pistol vs their tank. it is damn near literally impossible to do anything about it (someone could probably figure something out that wouldn't work 99% of the time, but hey.)

Asking to nerf guns because they're too good? Unless the balance is really that far out of whack, it's usually uncalled for. You can kill someone with a "sub par" gun just as easily as they can kill you with their "top tier" weapon. You may lose in a static environment, but since when was live gameplay static? Shoot em in the back if that's what it takes.

There's a difference between poor weapons balancing and a power ladder that you're at the bottom of. Apples, oranges.

 

[Saltyk]

I'm of two minds on this.

On the one hand, I agree. Simply dismissing others as being unskilled or noobs is BS. How can a new player hope to compete when everyone else has fully upgraded weapons and/or stats that make the new players a joke? That's not a fair argument. It's not skill that is keeping them from being able to play. It's the fact that they can shoot others in the face all day and not kill them, while those players can fart in their general direction and kill them.

On the other hand, I think skill is something that can't be completely dismissed. Learning the weapons, maps, working with others, and just generally being competent at the game are a must. You can't complain simply because you die and haven't played the game much to learn it.

To put this in a certain perspective, let's use the example of a MMO. Now, I wouldn't dismiss someone as "unskilled" if the only difference between them and a "skilled" player is gear. If they are just as capable, knowledgeable and competent, they are just as skilled. Even if their gear is weaker. But if they stand in the fire all day and make healers waste spells healing them until they eventually die, possibly harming the rest of the group as a result, then, yes, they are unskilled.

Skill and unlocked abilities/equipment is not the same thing. It's not a question of skill if you have a slingshot and everyone else has giant mechas. You won't likely pull a Shadow of the Colossus and fell those giants.

Why don't they just group players according to level, though? Would it be so hard to place players that are level 1-20 in a game, and do the same up till the higher echelons? That would give some of the lower level people a chance to grow without being destroyed by one or two that they can't hope to fight.

 

[SKBPinkie]

GTA:O is absolute shit. And so is GTA:V.

A multiplayer portion only works if the core gameplay is satisfying, if the controls are good, and if there's been a good amount of polish towards balancing the game.

GTA:V is a good example of a game where the story was the clear priority. Gameplay was an afterthought.

- There's no sense of balance,
- no idea of how to set up the game's economics,
- the RPG-esque attributes pretty much mean nothing,
- the controls favor character animation over fluid movement,
- the gun mechanics and controls are awful (and auto-aim is a terrible alternative) ,
- the cops are goddamn annoying (not hard, just annoying to shake off and the game tries its hardest to make sure you're as obedient as possible to its ludicrous rules),
- the game claims to be open world - yet every single action in any single player mission is restricted (down to the car you must drive),
- and not to mention - this game had one of the biggest budgets in gaming history, and they still couldn't fucking get rid of the "tap A to run" mechanic, 6 years after the first game. Seriously, that might seem like a nitpicky thing to point out, but there's simply no excuse for such a garbage control system.

How this game got perfect scores - I have no clue. Yeah, it has decently interesting characters and a story (somewhat), but is the gaming press so starved for good writing that they're rating games purely on their non-interactive portions?

 

[TristanBelmont]

While I haven't had the privilege of playing GTA:O yet (and as I've scrolled down the page and read posts I don't I'll ever bother), I understand what you're saying and can sympathize greatly. Now, I used to play the online components of Halo, Battlefield, GTA IV, etc. a lot more than I do now because the communities for Xbox Live and PSN are absolutely dreadful.

Now, I realize that's like saying all PewDiePie fans are the same idiots who claim he's the only one who can play Slender or Amnesia or whatever, but it's truer here than anywhere else. I'm bad at most multiplayer games, and I admit that with zero shame. Truth be told, I wish I had been born early enough to experience the days of arcades, when skill was arguably a greater factor in success and if you had some choice words for who you were playing against THEY WERE RIGHT THERE.

Getting back to skill, however, a lack of it is no reason you should not be able to experience a game. I don't hate player progression systems, I just feel they could be implemented more...what's the word? Fairly? Better-er? As much as I hate it, Call of Duty is a series that I feel does it right. In any game, you're going to get XP (provided you don't quit out), whether you were a one-man army that slaughtered anything with the nerve to draw breath, or a camper hiding in the back of the map roasting marshmallows. None of the weapons or abilities (passive or active) you unlock via leveling up are miles above what you start with, and every gun/knife/dildo bat has it's ups and downs.

Like I said, I haven't gotten to try GTA:O, and while the MMO-style of what Rockstar is doing with it impresses me, the fact that someone on the team though it would be a good idea to award a player with a tank they can summon from the ether was a GOOD idea kinda makes me scratch my head. While it's a big map and you're not like to join a lobby with nothing but heavy armor operators, Rockstar should've looked to Trevor and thought "What would happen if we gave this guy a tank and dropped 'im into a city with a bunch of people armed only with handguns and rifles?"

Because that's what will happen when you give the racist, sexist, xenophobic assholes of Xbox Live a tank and drop them into a city with a bunch of people armed only with handguns and rifles, Rockstar. That's exactly what will happen.

 

[Squilookle]

This is why I pretty much hate any multiplayer game with an unlock tier and leveling progress. First time I hopped into Battlefield 3 I jumped into a jet and corkscrewed through a sky full of AA missiles and chaff... and wasn't allowed to use either of them. The game expected me to rack up aerial kills with the puny cannon before I was allowed anywhere near chaff, and once I unlocked the missiles I even had to quit the match and activate them on a menu?

What the hell happened to multiplayer?

What happened to arena shooters where ALL weapons were available to ALL players, ALL the time? What happened to shooters where ALL players could hold ALL weapons at once, so each duel was a pure test of skill rather than the game of dice rolling you played minutes earlier when you picked a class?

 

[Mikeyfell]

I got about as far as "Legit justification for being an asshole"

I want to know some of these legit justifications...
Maybe if someone is being an asshole already and then you can be an asshole back... but that still just lowers you to their level...
Maybe if you're being an asshole to Bioware, because those cunts totally have it coming...

Nahhh I don't think there is a really legit justification for being an asshole.


But let's break off this tangent for a second-
I don't know how to deal with griefers. I don't play multyplayer, I haven't played a competitive match since Halo: Reach. That's why I'm so pissed that all games are drifting towards multyplayer purgatory. Doesn't GTA5 have a really robust single player? That didn't go away because you beat it, just play it again if you're still on a GTA kick. There! Problem solved!

 

[TheSYLOH]

It depends on the context and the attitude of the low skill player.

For example Star Trek: Online has raid maps that are open to public groups called STFs.
The some of them are divided into normal and elite.
Elite is significantly harder and gives much better rewards.
The team size is 5 people.

Now with Elite, there are a few maps that require every single player to be contributing at a minimum standard. Most teams can't survive an effective 20% hit in firepower/healing. Also there are situations where an ignorant,careless or unskilled player can ruin the match for the entire team or at least prevent bonus objectives from being completed or extend the time taken significantly.

Now, since normal exists and you can get the gear for the minimum standard there, I think its perfectly valid to politely ask the guy to return to normal.
The triggers are not very obvious, so it valid to point out those triggers so they won't trip them again.

BUT, some people take exception to that, they are rude, act entitled,etc..

Now that is when you are fully justified to be an asshole to that person...

One time after tiggering the loss of a bonus objective, and then proceeding with a course of action that was absolutely pointless.
(for STO players, he blew up one gen on ISE before we blew up the cube,let alone damaged the gens and then started shooting at the nanite spheres)
When I pointed out the proper way his response was something along the lines of "f**k you , everyone plays their own way"
That just brought out my inner asshole...

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Well first off, having a higher level does not denote skill. I've bought games and ended up on the top of the scoreboard in my first match, whereas the people playing had had the game for months and had better weapons.
But enough bragging.

People should stop being assholes in general. Anyone I hear using the word "Legit" or "Skill" in a non-satirical or fashion during a multiplayer match loses all credibility in my eyes and I usually end up muting them right off the bat. Although I might chase them down and target them personally to hear them squeal.

 

[MoeMints]

That almost completely depends on the genre and context.

If you were to say complain about that in more complex MOBAs, fighters, and others where your skill and execution is the barrier to "git good", no. You should expect to get bashed in like everyone else who isn't good from the start.

But massively multiplayer PVP servers, yeah that's totally expected.

 

[VoidWanderer]

And this, is why PvP should be divided into Level brackets.

 

[Alarien]

The real shocker, for me, was that this thread was over something as insipid and trivial as the multiplayer in a GTA game. (read more and spot the irony, it was intended )

Really?

That said, the answer is a resounding No. The really true hardcore MP games out there fall into the general realms of the games that are solely online or are professionally competitively online: MMORPGs, Online RTS's, competition FPS's and MOBA's.

The answer is still: It is never appropriate to be an asshole. Most of the people who play those games badly do so honestly. They are newbies working their way up and developing their skills. They have a long way to go but want to learn.

That said, there are always griefers, exploiters, and trolls.

Should you be an asshole to them? If I was still 22, I'd say "SURE! Why NOT?!"

I'm 37. I've learned what happens if you let your mouth/keyboard get away from you. In the realm of online community, it's pretty much always better to take the high road. Report if appropriate. Explain proper protocol or behavior, nicely, if appropriate. Offer to help or offer constructive suggestions. Be the better person.

If the person doesn't appreciate that because they truly are one of the scumbags of our gaming generation, then you can at least be secure in the knowledge that YOU are not.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

The only time I will say it is legit is in a team-based game like DOTA 2 that is a reaallly loooong tiiiimee invesstmeeent with no surrender button. Having a total noob on your team (or having a whole team of noobs), knowing that if you quit you get put into low priority... how frustrating must that be? It isn't justification to be a complete asshole, sure, but man, it's like being trapped in a cage at that point. You've got an hour left with these nobodies and you have to either try to herd them all to do something useful, or bang your head against the keyboard hoping the defeat is quick and painless. I think it's completely justified to let off some steam in that situation.

I personally never mind, when I join a team-based game and do absolutely dreadfully, when someone pipes up and calls me an asshole. Because if I'm not going to at least try to pull my weight (and thus dock points, priority, rewards to the entirety of my team), it's like... sure. I am a bit of an asshole. I mean it's not time for death threats or anything - there's a limit - but if I'm legitimately stopping everyone else from having as much fun as I am... yeah. That makes sense. (Note that I don't actually play MOBAs or team-based shooters or anything so my experience is severely limited.)

 

[Eamar]

The thing a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact that players can be of the same level but still radically different skill, especially in MMOs where people can have multiple characters. I have a level 90 character in WoW, but I freely admit that I'm still a complete and utter noob compared to most. Fortunately I found an awesome guild who are fine with that and are more than happy to walk me through dungeons, help me gear up for raiding etc. However, without them I'd be seriously struggling to improve, because the majority of people I've encountered in random dungeon groups and the like are, frankly, complete dicks to newer players.

I completely agree that in a team scenario even the most inexperienced player has to be prepared to do basic legwork like making sure they know their class' mechanics, reading up on the dungeon/map and all that jazz. It's perfectly understandable to be annoyed (but still not to be a complete dick) if someone is genuinely making no effort at all, because it's not just their own time they're taking up. Personally I also like to give the group a heads up if it's my first time running a dungeon, just so everyone's on the same page. But if an unskilled player is making an effort, and they (pretty much inevitably) make mistakes, it's not cool to lose your shit and start hurling abuse.

I mean, despite my relative inexperience there have been a few times when I've been the most familiar with a particular dungeon, and sure it can be annoying when other players just don't have the same knowledge as you, but it's not their fault and you were new once too, and you'll gain a whole lot more by being patient and talking them through it rather than having a tantrum. They'll be grateful for it, and they probably won't make the same mistakes next time.

Honestly, I swear a lot of people in WoW actually can't get their heads around the idea that someone might be rolling their first character, not alt #503 or whatever.

 

[smithy_2045]

Every time I've ended up with assholes in my GTA:O lobby, I run to the other side of the map. The assholes won't bother to chase you, they're after cheap kills. I honestly have no idea how people can have so much issue with griefers in that game.

The comment about weapon balance also seems a bit off to me. Reminds me of the incessant whinging about the AWP in CS:S. Yeah, it's a good weapon, but it takes at least 1 full round of not buying anything to afford one, and it has some clear disadvantages that can be used to counter it. Not to mention the possibility of just getting your own AWP and outskilling them. People who demand that the AWP gets nerfed typically just need to work on improving their own skill, rather than trying to get the game changed to favour them.

 

[Jamieson 90]

As someone who used to play computer games competitively in leagues and tournaments etc I can kind of sympathize with them to an extent. It's really annoying when someone who has only played the game for 5 hours or less starts whinging, and there is some truth to the L2P attitude; I remember when I fist started gaming and I used to get absolutely raped by better players, but that just made me more determined to get better and beat them.

 

[Kaymish]

heh i was playing APB tonight against a person with an assault rifle and some one with a paid silenced assault rifle of a different type where i am using a fairly bog standard shot gun the second day of using them after the great re balancing (ie much needed nerf) this person was getting all bitter and twisted that she was disadvantaged against me as pointblank range
i killed her a bunch of times and she had the gall to wisper to me something along the lines of drop the n-fas arsehole or get skill and drop n-fas when the match was finished i didn't pay much attention and only remembered when i saw your thread
anyway i remember considering giving her some basic hints and tips for defeating me things like dont get into point blank range of me or lob a few grenades round the corner before you run in
in the end i think i just got unhappy with her and let her make the same mistakes a few more times over the next few matches i faced her in
i was just surprised that she got so but hurt at me using the equivalent of a "low level" gun she didnt even do that badly and im not great but its a perspective from another side where the noobs are yelling obscenities at people when im just playing the game
well now that i have thoroughly forgotten where i was going and probably bored whoever manages to read this half to death i suppose what im saying is that people should just hold on to their inner arsehole but thats not going to happen is it?

 

[veloper]

Leveling up toons in multiplayer arenas is one of the biggest design flaws that ever happened in game development.

The learn to play attitude is understandable, especially in team matches where you don't want poor team mates ruining the game, but when 'better' players simply have better gear, it's nolonger a matter of pure skill.

If anything, inexperienced players should get something for their handicap, to make competive games without leagues interesting again.

 

[Vareoth]

I have a simple set of guidelines when it comes to griefing/raging. I occasionally throw out a sarcastic comment if I'm annoyed with someone or my team in general. Or I point out an obvious flaw in someone's play style in the hope of guiding them in the right direction. When I actually get angry I just stop playing that particular game and go do something else.

Now, most of the times I see someone lose their shit, whether it's aimed at me or not, I can dutifully ignore it and disregard it for the impotent rage that it is. Sometimes, however, I like throwing fuel on the fire. Some of my most amusing moments of this were in a little game called "World of Tanks". There are many fun ways to sabotage a raging idiot there.

That is a rarity however. I just like playing fun online games with normal human beings who don't shriek with the fury of a thousand lost souls whenever they see something they don't like.

And yes, I know the difference between pointless whining and sharp advice. No need to lecture me on that.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

The only justification for being an asshole is if someone is being an asshole to you.

But that just leads to "asshole stew" and a bad time.

 

[Foolery]

Some multiplayer games just take time. I used to get my ass kicked in Counter-Strike, still do, but I joined up with a decent community, and played enough that I'm relatively competent. It was an enjoyable experience getting better at CS. But I don't play for progression or unlocks, I'm mostly there to talk and have a good time with people.