I've often heard the argument of "If you are losing get better...Quit playing if you have no skillz (lol!!)" on forums, in game etc. People like that are generally suffering from chronic assholia and cranial rectal inversion. Most importantly, people like this are doing these things out of some warped view of skill and a need to smack sundry and all with the size of their Epeen (so they can level that up too).
Some people think that if one spends enough time with a game they'll develop pro-level skills. This is demonstrably false as a statement. Others, think that to get good you should study builds, maps, weapon stats etc for hours before even jumping into the multiplayer. This is also false. This can really be summed as; The "leet skilled players" are trying to force everyone else to do exactly what they do because all other forms of play are invalid in their eyes. This is also something that is quickly provable to be false.
This kind of 'leet vs others' tude is what can make online gaming an unsavoury experience, which stopped me from playing Halo games online. I've recently been experiencing this while playing Payday 2. There are good players on there, who will give you a chance to prove yourself fairly. Now and then you get the opposite kind of player, who'll play Gaming Hitler, kick you from their game, if you deviate by the smallest measure or just judging by your stats (cause they say everything.
There's no need to do this and its the kind of power that gets abused a lot. For some its almost like they want to control their side of a game, as well as yours, which breaks the whole concept of co-op/multiplayer.
I'm glad I'm not like these people. Whenever I play online, I do my best to treat all gamers alike, new or experienced. If one lacks skills, I will try to teach and school them in the ways of a game. I think that its also about time that game designers consider gamifying the role of 'teacher' or 'sensei' in a game world, and give rewards for those who spend the time to tolerate and teach, than too easily kick players from games and abuse others.
The only part of this discussion I feel justified in latching onto is the 'justification for being an asshole' part, if only because Dark Souls is the only game with competitive (and Jolly Cooperative!) bits I play often.
Basically, they are other players entering your game most likely with the intent to stab you dead, be it under fair circumstances or not. However, this is countered a little by the game restricting the level of the player you can invade to never being much below your own, you shouldn't see anyone dual-wielding Smough's greathammers that isn't hacking if you're only level 30 or so.
There are other kinds of invaders, but the same rule applies, no way for massively higher-leveled players to invade for easy kills, as far as I know, but there's no level limit for the one doing the invading. As in, a level 12 invader can wind up in the game of a level 362 host and be swiftly curb-stomped as they kindof deserve, having almost certainly only been there to bother the host in some way. The invader, in my experience, doesn't really lose anything, even the humanity normally lost for dying while human is unharmed, though they may have to walk a bit to recover souls and loose humanity where they were summoned.
I like this system because it feels perfectly in line with the rest of the game, the world in general notoriously murderous. If anything, the invaders are more likely to be on your skill level than half the monsters you'll meet, I think. The only issue is whether or not they're the sort that exploit cheap tricks at every opportunity, like some kind of glitch that apparently lets you backstab someone while in front of them, not a riposte, either.
Explanation out of the way, here's why I brought it up:
I like to invade now and then to show not all Darkwraiths are complete dick-blisters, I go around triggering traps before the host can be harmed by them, attack illusory walls to reveal them, try to lead the player toward items they might not have found yet, flip switches to open shortcuts, etc.
When the host finds me, usually using ineffective weapons and not wearing pants, I like to wave at them before making a half-hearted attempt to stab them once or twice before getting crushed, bad guy (me) is supposed to lose and all. I don't know if the easy wins I provide actually give them much of a confidence boost to face the nightmares Lordran assaults it's inhabitants with, but sometimes I meet people that don't recognize my charity in the slightest.
Recently, I invaded some prick in Anor Londo whom I didn't see right away, but repeatedly saw the sign that indicates he's trying to summon help (might have been poor connection or something) while I went around opening doors he hadn't gotten to yet. When I finally saw him, he stood still, so I waved at him, which, rather than returning the gesture or anything of the sort, he took as incentive to run up and attack me. You can't act at all when using emotes, so this is more than a little bit of a dick move on his part, any decent invader will at least bow or something if given the chance.
However, his weapon being a tad weak, I didn't get killed right away, him backing up and throwing lightning spears at me instead. I tried waving again when he slowed down, but he just didn't have patience for manners. My guess is he had been invaded many times before by less charitable wraiths and was panicking, the assumption that I meant him harm overriding decency, thereby probably 'justifying' his being an asshole.
As such, I felt no shame whatsoever in applying the Golden Rule and burning him to death with a few well-timed Combustions. I've actually jumped off cliffs or used the item that lets me just harmlessly go home in the conclusion to some of my invasions, but I know actually killing the guy was assholish. However, as explained, he was rude, so I have no regrets, and he almost got me anyway.
Short version: If you're pretty sure the other guy is being an asshole first, I think assholing right back is at least forgivable.
I have been playing GTA:O the last few days and I have come to absolutely loathe it because of all the high level players using tanks and assault rifles in lower level lobbies. Pretty much every lobby I go into has a 100+ level player just driving around in a tank killing everything that moves. Being a lower level, i think my character is 12, I don't have any way to compete with that which makes the game really frustrating and unlikable. So I went online to see what I could do to counter high level players in death matches and tanks using high level weapons and all I see are people on the Rockstar forums talking about how "if you don't have the skill to deal with them, then you deserve to be spawn raped" or "quite wining and get better at the game."
Now, these kinds of comments annoy me greatly. Not only does skill not factor into unlocking more powerful weapons with higher levels, but I, as a student and employee, do not have the time to spend 8 or 10 hours a day leveling up and getting "good." Nor would I want to. Where did this attitude among gamers come from that you have to be skilled to enjoy a video game? You see similar comments on Battlefield and CoD forums where people are asking for nerf'd guns and are shot down by other players who tell them to get better at the game.
I simply want to enjoy the little time I have playing video games and not have to pour 100's of hours into it just to get to a point where I can enjoy it. To me, that's not fun. Getting killed by someone in a tank that I literally have no means of defending against is not fun. Getting killed by machine gunners with the most powerful class weapons in Battlefield is not fun.
I don't get why you have to be "skilled" at the game to have fun, both from a design and a player standpoint.
Am I off the mark here? Am I being a little too sensitive or do you agree?
Well one problem is this new trend among games to have unlockables which is blatantly annoying. I mean, why should new players who are already at a disadvantage due to a lack of experience be even more disadvantaged due to not having access to everything? Let RPG stuff be RPG stuff god damnit...
Anyway, what one has to keep in mind is that on the internet you also have plenty of "noobs" (mind i said noobs not newbies) who are actually constantly bitching about things "being too hard" and pressuring devs to make games piss easy which makes them boring for people who actually have skills. This has caused a very defensive attitude among more "skilled" players towards anything that may look like an attempt to pressure for a game to become "easier". And mind you there are plenty of "noobs" also asking questions like "how do i have to beat X" in a rhetorical manner and sometimes it's hard to distinguish those who are just complaining about them being beaten from those who genuinely want to learn. But overall i'd agree that being rude towards people just asking newbie questions is wrong. Everyone has been a newbie/unskilled at one point and no would have liked to be treated like dirt back than. So why make others go through that? I personally love to help people who want to learn. But those who think it's more constructive just to whine instead of becoming better... well I won't spare them.
Honestly, leveled load-outs it just makes it easier, not eliminates it entirely. In games like Halo, the right map - and/or the right weapon drops - can turn it into just as unpleasant, either because of a huge skill disparity or lag abuse.
I'm beginning to think online PVP games need to start implementing rules to structure the matches more along sports lines to penalize players who engage in what is either bullying or unsportsmanlike behavior. Turn the playing feild into a sportsfield, not a playground so to speak.
And on the sports field, you use every advantage you have at your disposal. Most of the time these complaints come off as either someone crying that a game some little kid made up on the spot is unfair (well duh it's unfair, go play a real game that wasn't broken by design), or like they're complaining that, say, tackling in football is OP because they don't understand how defense works. Both complaints have a pretty easy solution, and it's not making changes to the current game.
except this is more like camping outside the penalty box and kicking the ball in the goal as soon as it comes out, or having your team push everyone away from the hoop so you can grab the ball as soon it drops down and dunk it straight in again. The kind of thing real sports have rules to prevent.
Gah, read the subject wrong and voted incorrectly. My no should be a yes.
Sadly there's not much that can be done about this, short of people deciding to not be assholes. Having separate lobbies won't work, as trolling players will continue to troll by going in the low-level games. The only way would be if the game forces people of similar levels into the same games. Even then you can get someone who just wants to screw around killing everybody, while other players want to play the game, though at least they have the ability to fight back somewhat.
I believe that skilled players do deserve some kind of reward. I know that's partly the idea behind the killstreak unlockables in CoD and Battlefield (I assume, I play neither). Do well, and you get a special perk. However, I don't really like it in games where you get to unlock overpowered weapons or abilities just by playing for a long time. Sure, everyone has the ability to eventually get these items, but I am lucky nowadays to get an hour a day of gaming in. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours on one game to unlock a tank (this is just an example, I have no idea how long it takes to get the tank in GTA:O), and don't want to be trolled by other players who do have the time when all I want to do is have fun playing the game. Same goes for any overpowered item or ability. Getting a gun with slightly higher accuracy or damage would be okay, or a speed boost, etc. Something that gives a slight advantage without making the other player invincible to less experienced players.
Basically, I prefer small, one-use perks or items or general equipment that is slightly better than the norm be used as rewards for skilled or long-time players. You'll still get some really skilled players that might end up trolling, but at least they won't be untouchable due to overpowered items.
Honestly, leveled load-outs it just makes it easier, not eliminates it entirely. In games like Halo, the right map - and/or the right weapon drops - can turn it into just as unpleasant, either because of a huge skill disparity or lag abuse.
I'm beginning to think online PVP games need to start implementing rules to structure the matches more along sports lines to penalize players who engage in what is either bullying or unsportsmanlike behavior. Turn the playing feild into a sportsfield, not a playground so to speak.
And on the sports field, you use every advantage you have at your disposal. Most of the time these complaints come off as either someone crying that a game some little kid made up on the spot is unfair (well duh it's unfair, go play a real game that wasn't broken by design), or like they're complaining that, say, tackling in football is OP because they don't understand how defense works. Both complaints have a pretty easy solution, and it's not making changes to the current game.
except this is more like camping outside the penalty box and kicking the ball in the goal as soon as it comes out, or having your team push everyone away from the hoop so you can grab the ball as soon it drops down and dunk it straight in again. The kind of thing real sports have rules to prevent.
Not really. Part of the rules of this game are apparently "he who has been around the longest has the most powerful weapons." So in the hypothetical, that would only be against the rules for rookie players. That's why I used the example of a little kid making up a game on the spot. It's unbalanced by design, and you're better off complaining about the game itself or just playing something else instead of complaining about the other players making use of the advantage they've gained due to the stacked rules.
GTA Online sounds like a terrible example because there's no inherent skill involved in having equipment your opposition can't and using it to kill them.
I mean great, you have a tank and you can shoot people who haven't. That doesn't mean you've got skill, it means you've played long enough to have a tank.
Go you.
Now, in a game where players are at a relatively level playing field in terms of equipment, especially team based games, you should really be putting some effort into learning how to play the game so you don't drag your team down, and if your team loses you should consider whether you did something wrong before blaming the other players on it.
Depends on a couple of things. The game and the manner in which the other player is an asshole. In a few cases, skilled players give new players a hard time in order to improve them or teach them about the game. Similarly, in co-op games skilled players may hold back in order for the new player to improve. In other cases, new players put themselves in a crucial role despite knowing they are not suited to it, and skilled players who may lose because of it berate them. These two are justified and dubious respectively in my opinion.
But other than that, no. Especially in games where progression is based on time spent and you can get straight advantages and still be fighting new people with nothing.
EDIT: By the way, this is one of the reasons I didn't take to RDR's online. It's a bunch of mean-spirited pricks with fucking Zebras grouping up and screwing with anyone who hasn't grinded their way to that dubious honour.
True, but I still flame the fuck out of anybody that annoys me by being incompetent.
Because I am a horrible worthless shit with no self-control whatsoever.
True, but I still flame the fuck out of anybody that annoys me by being incompetent.
Because I am a horrible worthless shit with no self-control whatsoever.
True, but I still flame the fuck out of anybody that annoys me by being incompetent.
Because I am a horrible worthless shit with no self-control whatsoever.
Nah, I just tell 'em they should fuck off the edge of my dick and uninstall the game because they are worthless shit.
See, I told you I don't deserve sympathy.
I agree to a certain point. That point being, rookies trying to get into the big leagues on day one and get their asshole ripped apart at their expense and the expense of their team should be discouraged from doing that.
Being killed by a higher level guy in a tank sucks. But fine. It happens. But if it happens again and again and again and no matter how you try and get around them. They still get you. Then that is really sucky. I except this stuff happens in online games, but when its continuous then it makes the game unplayable and you have every right to have fun with a game you bought. How are you meant to have fun and skill up when you get killed by a griefer as soon as you poke your head round the door? Granted you can turn off and try back in an hour, but thats not the point. Im thinking GTA:O shouldnt have the leveling up and just let them play the game as the single player. Do missions, make money and buy whatever weapons you want. If you find a helicopter or tank, then you can use it. Can you save those vehicles? Because i bet it will get annoying if as soon as you kill the tit in the tank, he just gets another one from his garage. Ends up as a cheat code in a way.
Now this happened to me in WoW. When you play in pvp you might meet a higher level character that will kill you on his way to some where else. This is a one off, and while annoying, is fine. One time a guy killed me and stood near where my body was waiting for me to respawn. After two more deaths i ended up doing the major slog to get re-spawned else where. Now thats annoying.
There is no reason to be an asshole in online gaming at all, there is no excuse, and being an asshole in return only begets more name calling and poor behaviour which brings down the tone and happiness of everyone. Most people that are trolling seem to forget that they were new at the game at one point too.
Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will instantly forget he ever didn't know how to fish and call people noobs on the fishing forums.
It's due to the kinds of people this topic is about that I stopped playing mmos. People like that should be banned forever, but the GMs never get around to doing that so the bad players are still in the game. I could nearly write a book about my experiences in mmos so I'm not going to post it here.
I'm gonna have to agree with the people who pointed the blame at Rockstar. What the OP is describing isn't bad /players/, it's a terribly designed /game/. This isn't a case of skill vs. skill, where the better player wins. That can be less than fun for the wrong kind of gamer, but at least it's fair. Instead what we've got is a case of account vs. account, where the account that has been used the longest has the advantage. These "high level" players would be getting their asses kicked by other high level players, if they had to start a new account for some reason. In a properly balanced game, that won't happen -- the best player wins, regardless of whether they're even playing on their own account or not.
Game developers should do their best to make things work, and prevent people from being assholes, and the blame is entirely on them when it happens, and they're the only ones with the power to fix it... but if you need to sit in a tank waiting to prevent noobs from playing at all to get your rocks off, you're an asshole.
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