Poll: Let's Get Some Honesty, Shall We? (Regarding Big Breasts/Sexy Female Game Characters)

[ShiningAmber]

Coming from a woman, for ever that's worth.

I don't mind sexy female characters. But, when that's all they are, it bothers me. And really, that's all that are at the moment and ever have been. There's the exceptions that no doubt someone will list for me, but the list of female characters who are walking bimbos, serve no purpose other than eye candy or to please the male protagonist or give him support/a reason to do things, I fully believe my list will beat the mess out of their's.

Dragon's Crown, I think they had some awesome room for physical design and totally ruined it on the Amazon and Sorceress and those designs are disgusting.

 

[Frotality]

its not offensive, its just one of the cheapest and easiest ways to make a character less boring. in regards to aesthetics, breasts are like sugar: a pleasant distraction in moderation, but if its pouring out of everything you might have a problem.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Exaggerated tits don't do anything for me, and neither do "jiggle physics".

Even outside of the usual eye-rolling silliness of obvious exploitation, dis-proportionately enormous tits make the character look deformed and warped to me, not sexy. It's distracting, but definitely NOT in the way it was intended.

Apart from that, I've dealt with a lifetime of such pandering. It's not interesting; it's trite.

 

[BrainWalker]

This is a ridiculous question that once again shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the objection to the prevalence of overtly sexualized female characters in media. It's not a bunch of prudes saying that nobody can enjoy anything sexy. I'm a red-blooded hetero male and I watch as much internet porn as anyone else who actually bothers to comment on internet forums. But I don't think EVERY female character has to be sexy; nor that that sexiness has to be her primary, defining character trait. Is it too much to ask to have characters with more than one dimension?

I'm not trying to slut-shame or anything. If you're well-endowed and/or you like sex, then congratulations on having figured out who you are. But I don't want every single woman, in real life or in video games or in comic books or anything else to be a sex doll. That's it. Why is this so hard to understand? And why is this so controversial?

 

[Nickolai77]

Sex sells - always has. I just wonder what it'd be like if the shoe were on the other foot? I mean, what if ladies made up the biggest buying demographic and bulging, jiggling male "anatomy" was all the rage? Just wondering...

It's an interesting question but male and female sexuality isn't directly comparable. Generally speaking male sexuality is more visual and focused just on appearance- whereas female sexuality is more about context and behaviour of the male character as much as it is their appearance. That's why there isn't a direct male equivalent of 50 Shades or Twilight.

On topic- scantly clad female characters with bulging breasts do annoy me on videogames. I feel it encourages the player as well as the developer to conceive the character as being nothing but eye-candy, as opposed to an otherwise intriguing and engaging character which could enhance the gaming experience. It isn't hard to capture a male players attention with a sexy female body- but it takes real artistic talent to capture the attention of the gamer through a well developed and interesting female character. So in a way i feel overly sexualised female characters is a cheap and lazy way of attracting a male audience.

Obviously though it depends on what sort of game you're trying to make. If it's a game like Lollypop Chainsaw Massacre then what i've said is a moot point. But if it's a game trying to be more serious then i think it spoils the game a bit for me. And of course, it is possible to create interesting female characters with tits the size of lemons (Lara Croft) i'm just speaking in general terms here.

Here's another question to underline my point: How many people here would honestly want the kind of female armour you get in MMO RPG's like Terra to be default in the Elder Scrolls games?

 

[Yuuki]

Here's another question to underline my point: How many people here would honestly want the kind of female armour you get in MMO RPG's like Terra to be default in the Elder Scrolls games?

Enough to make bikini-armor mods for Skyrim quite popular, and 278 people in this poll

 

[The Lugz]

Here's another question to underline my point: How many people here would honestly want the kind of female armour you get in MMO RPG's like Terra to be default in the Elder Scrolls games?

Enough to make bikini-armor mods for Skyrim quite popular, and 278 people in this poll

ha! yes.. indeedy... to the tune of hundreds of thousands of downloads in the nexus, lovers lab, steam workshop ect.
and millions of views on youtube.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyYRUiYZWKc
( bare in mind that's ONE video from ONE youtuber.. )

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Personally, it's a matter of appropriateness. Most games where this is a problem features intense athletic activity, often in the context of combat. I don't want to make a sweeping generalization but I have to assume, based on things I've observed and a simple understanding of physiology mixed with fair knowledge of modern and historical combat and athletic endeavors in general, that women with large breasts in such situations would probably try something to restrain them.

If nothing else, the constant chafe of nipples against fabric of any sort would be incredibly painful - it is one of the few parts of the body that cannot grow a callous and even on men, having nipples rubbed raw (and bleeding) can be a problem. Beyond that, most of the time an attempt to sexual a garment renders it functionally useless. An exposed midriff or a low cut collar represents a suit of armor that simply will not serve to protect you; indeed, it will likely make your defensive situation worse. While some might assume that in melee combat such things represent relatively small gaps to exploit, I'd counter that people have exploited far smaller (and better defended) gaps in armor routinely in ancient warfare. Using fencing as an example, it is relatively trivial to learn how to direct a thrust such that lands in an area the size of a quarter. Leaving such a gap simply results in a person wearing a heavy, uncomfortable and inflexible garment that doesn't offer any protection.

 

[The Lunatic]

If you're trying to get sexual gratification from video games, I think you're doing it wrong.

 

[Zombiefluff]

Sir, I would very much like to contribute to your poll, but it's difficult without knowing what thresholds you have in mind when you use phrases like "sexy figure" and "large breasts".

Would it help if I gave you my approximate personal thresholds?
Starting with your generic slim, pretty character, here are my most typical first impressions with different breast sizes:
A-C : Moeeeee!
D : Look, I'm in a video game!
DD-DDDD : Oh, a female video game character. I wonder what she does. :|
DDDDD+ : What is that horrible beachball creature?! Bury it under the Silent Hill that spawned it!! D:
And here is how I might react to seeing the character with exaggerated jiggle animation, dental floss armor, or other artistic choices that draw a lot of gratuitous attention to her lady parts:
A-C : Creepy Japanese lolicon. o_0;
D : What did I do to deserve this kind of humiliation AGAIN? ;~;
DD-G : Oh, a female video game character in THAT kind of game. I wonder if she does anything. <_<
H+ : The beachball monster is doing a hideous wobble-dance at me! It's planning to deposit its eldritch chest-eggs in my face! The demise of all humanity is upon us!!! DDDDD:
Of course there are additional variables, as a lot of other people have said. Good characterization and storytelling can redeem shoddy visual design up to a point. And if I feel like the visual design is irredeemable, I usually just ignore the game's existence, assuming (maybe not correctly) that the other aspects of it would have been equally thoughtless.
The one thing that truly bothers me is how often the characters who look like me are subjected to mandatory fanservice. It's like being invited to a glamorous party and then ordered to jump out of the cake. Could game developers maybe offer a pair of twins, and one of them prances around in her underwear for no reason while the other has a personality and knows how to operate a sports bra? Then each player could play with the one we preferred.
I've considered avoiding characters who resemble me altogether, but that's both difficult and sad, especially since my favorite genre is MMO.

 

[lapan]

My rule is that if a female is going to exist as a piece of guilty-pleasure-eye-candy, then the least developers can do is get their appearance, proportions and animations right. Exaggerated proportions are nice, but there is a boundary where they go from "sexy" to "WTF" - Dragon's Crown crossed that boundary, Dead Or Alive is swaying dangerously close to that boundary.

Dragon's Crown clearly intended to cross that boundary. If everyones proportions are off, it's pretty clear it is an intended artistic direction.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Right, because it's clearly not worth spending time on caring about video games for someone who cares about video games...

Since when is caring about videogames synonemous with caring about pop gender issues?
The constant barrage of these debates do more damage to gaming than the so called "sexism in games" has ever done.
It's by far mostly a non-issue.

It's simply one aspect of games that is important to some. To say that they should 'get over it' is simply a pretty shitty attitude, no matter your personal stance on the issue. And, frankly, I find it rather bewildering to tell people they shouldn't care about good characters & good storytelling, which is, at the end of the day, exactly what one half of the debate is about.

Anyway, if you don't like these debates, why don't you just 'get over it'?

Or, for that matter, if the portrayal of women was indeed to change, and it's such an unimportant thing, why don't all those dudes just 'get over it'?

 

[Yuuki]

Dragon's Crown clearly intended to cross that boundary. If everyones proportions are off, it's pretty clear it is an intended artistic direction.

I can't deny that, they did what they set out to do.
I can only give my personal opinion about how I feel about it, and that is that it just looks weird because the Amazon & Sorceress resemble humans but aren't quite human.

Think about it:

> The dwarf is a dwarf. Practically anything short, muscular and sporting a huge beard would've done the job and that's exactly what he is. We aren't too familiar with dwarf proportions since they are a fictional race. The most common reference we have in our minds is Lord Of The Rings, but those are purely JRR Tolkien's dwarves - for all you know, they could've been introduced to us looked as crazy as the one below and you wouldn't be the wiser. It looks more comedic/hilariously awesome than "yuck":

> The elf is...an elf, as standard as they come, absolutely nothing over-the-top about her...and again, she's an Elf. She's short, slim, has elf ears, etc:

> The wizard just looks like a regular human male in robes, absolutely nothing over-the-top about him...probably the most normal of the lot so far:

> The fighter looks like a badass killing machine in armor. Apparently the guy under there is a human male with a tiny head, but you'd never be able to tell due to that awesome helmet:

> And then we have the sorceress, a human female albeit she seems to have two very large fleshy tumors attached to her chest. They also appear to be alive:

> And finally we have the amazon, a human female albeit she appears to be suffering from the same condition as the amazon, but with giant tumors in her ass/thighs instead of her breasts:

Firstly I'd like to make it clear that I totally love sexy women in my games. I don't care if they're exaggerated/over-sexualized as long as they're still somewhat nice to look at.

The amazon and sorceress go waaay beyond that and are extremely unappealing to me - why do I care? Because they're human females. They are supposed to resemble human females but there is something horribly "off" about them (intentional, yes, nice to look at, no). The two human males could still be somewhat called humans and look relatively badass, but these two human females fall deep into the uncanny valley for me. The sorceress has a cute face, beautiful hair and sexy legs, but her breasts make me go "...the fuck?". The amazon also has a beautiful face, nice hair and a sexy chest/torso, but her bottom-half make me go "...the fuck?".

I would've loved the Sorceress if her breasts were about half their current size, and if the Amazon went on a gluten-free diet for a few years. Then I'd totally love them wearing/exposing whatever they're wearing/exposing, at least they'd be sexy

 

[lapan]

> The elf is...an elf, as standard as they come, absolutely nothing over-the-top about her:

I'd say her legs look too long in proportion to the rest of the body.

> The fighter looks like a badass killing machine in armor. Apparently the guy under there is a human male with a tiny head, but the helmet doesn't give that impression:

His legs look almost normal, but his upper body is blown to immense proportions. His giant arms make his weapons almost look like toys.

The artist really likes to blow characters out of proportion, which was also visible in Muramasa, though less so than in Dragons Crown.

Spoiler

 

[CloudAtlas]

So why am I engaging in the debate? Because I'm interested in gender issues in general and it's disheartening to see just how rabid people are about this particular issue, despite it's total lack of harm or any evidence thereof.

It diminishes my enjoyment of a game. There you have your proof of harm.

I don't expect people to dismiss it because I say so, I'm just slowly realizing how immature people are, when they think this is the pinnacle of sexism and to see how fast people come to the aid of women when the western world today is far more inclined to protect and favor women than men.

Nobody says it's the "pinnacle of sexism".

You find my attitude shitty, that's fine, but you only contributed with sarcastic remarks, reveling in the attempt to one-up me, when you're not really thinking about the implications of the subject at hand. You're not exactly taking the high road here

I've been active in this debate for years, so I want to hope that I have thought about the implications, and that have contributed more than sarcastic remarks.

As for why "those dudes" don't get over it, you just have to accept that it's important for them not to. You answered that yourself. Not that I agree that it's important, I think it's just as absurd, but there you go.

If they can tell me to get over it, I can tell them the same. I'm simply calling them out on their hypocrisy here.

~

A central problem of this debate is that the defenders of the status quo (for lack of a better term) are fighting mostly against chimeras. They fight against enemies that only exist in their head, against demands that nobody has ever made. This is always derailing the debate. What people actually do demand is usually rather modest.

 

[The Lugz]

Dragon's Crown clearly intended to cross that boundary. If everyones proportions are off, it's pretty clear it is an intended artistic direction.

I can't deny that, they did what they set out to do.
I can only give my personal opinion about how I feel about it, and that is that it just looks weird because the Amazon & Sorceress resemble humans but aren't quite human.

Think about it:

snip snip!

I found a nice blog article here, about two seemingly well adjusted people playing/discussing the game in a non flame-war setting, I think it puts allot of the escapist comments into perspective.

http://www.frontburnr.net/burnrs/my-wife-the-casual-gamer-reacts-to-dragons-crown/

 

[Wargamer]

I am not wowed by massive breasts on characters. It can work if done for comedic effect, but played straight it only takes away from the game in my opinion.

 

[Tzatziki3301]

-snip-

The artist really likes to blow characters out of proportion, which was also visible in Muramasa, though less so than in Dragons Crown.

You see that's what I take away from it, purely absurd caricature (the exaggeration of one or more features over others).

Yes, the boobs are a bit TOO big, but from a cartoonists point of view, there's nothing wrong with them.

The Elf looks too young (her leg/body ratio aside), presumably the caricature here is the 'elves look eternally youthful' angle. The dwarf is wider than he is tall, the fighter has massive arms and shoulders (the classic 'Schwarzeneggar' caricature) compared to his tiny feet and thin legs that couldn't possibly support him, the Amazon has walnut-crushing thighs and butt at the expense of her upper body (a popular caricature of female body builders). The wizard is the 'most normal' of the bunch, but even he is a caricature of the 'brooding emo douche' archetype (having not played the game yet, he makes me think he will answer every question with the exclamation 'gah!')

Basically, absent from the debate about sexuality in games and the way it is expressed in visual art styles, all these characters are grotesques, and if drawn as some parody art of Dungeons and Dragons and displayed in a cartoonists' folio on deviant art, no-one would be batting an eyelid.

The thing most out-of-proportion here is not the breast size... it's the hoo hah.