Poll: Magic vs Technology

[BodomBeachChild]

Why can't we have the best of both worlds?

I personally prefer technology, but I'm usually torn. I'd rather live in a world like EVE than anywhere, but living in a world like TES would be fantastic.

Meh... I'll take my spaceships.

 

[DeltaEdge]

Technology easily. I'd hate being locked into medieval times just so I could use some vague mystic powers that by their very nature, can't be fully quantified, the fact that you're stuck in medieval times only furthering the fact that you are indeed using powers beyond your understanding.

Weird, considering that 99% of the games I play are heavily based around magic, and I generally am not able to get into much else, including sci-fi stuff too a lot of the time. But yeah, magic would just be too game-breaking, and game-breaking bugs in real life are never good. Plus, if magic were really that stagnant, then people would probably end up creating more advanced technology anyways once magic no longer solves any and all of their problems.

Spoiler: Technology + Magic mini-rant

On a side note, that's also kind of why settings with both technology and magic bother me, namely when the tech is modern, but the magic is still in the dark ages. I mean, eventually magic likely too would have been studied to the point that it essentially became another facet of science after scientists deconstructed all the elements and principals of magic, and it would end up just pushing technology down a different path. So basically, for this kind of setting, you have to choose between what's practical, which may drain the fun out of the mystery of magic, or maintain magic's mystic, at the expense of a lack of viability, i.e., it's completely out of place in it's setting, and you can't closely examine how it works or really develop and definitive sort of rules without uncovering a ton of flaws and plotholes.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I chose option C. I would much rather live in a world wherein we have today's techhnology but instead of people hacking it with other tech, they do so by magical means. I've always had an amazing vision of some mad mage trying to use technology to bring dinosaurs to life only to get fed up and bring to life their fossil remains by magical means.

Ultimately though, I look at magic vs technology the same way I look at animals vs monsters in that the difference between the two is merely a name and a basic understanding. Really wish I could conjure up Hell Fire though...

 

[MiskWisk]

It depends really. Is the magic based around a firm logic, such as arithmetic, geometry or has firm unbending rules? Or is it based upon the mental manipulation of some vaguely defined ethereal force limited only by the imagination of the user and other possible limiters?

In the case of the first, I see no reason that magic and technology wouldn't have developed side by side in which case then hell yes to magical worlds because it is only logical that you would get both. Those kinds of magics encourage technology development as magical development would have to follow the scientific method and that would encourage the kind of thought needed to improve technology.

In the case of the second, technology is likely to be held back by magic since no real development will occur on a global scale due to the focus on personal magics. While the magic may well be stronger on an individual basis, the method of use would encourage the kind of creativity that would be more seen in artists and other performers than scientists. In this case, I would go with a technological world because I am fairly sure that I wouldn't get much use out of spells of procrastination and sleeping spells (what I think I would end up with) so the trade off isn't really worth it in the short run.

That said, why is magic so different from technology that they can't exist simultaneously? After all, Clarke's law states that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic but surely the opposite is true to. Any sufficiently analysed magic is indistinguishable from technology. So why would we need to decide. The magical world just needs a few people to cause a boom in the study of mundane sciences and a magical world can get the best of both in the long run while a technological world can't.

Put me down for leaning towards magical then.

 

[Something Amyss]

well yeah, I guess that's part of their appeal

I think that's part of the turnoff for me. Like, magic tends to lead to socially and technologically stunted societies, and a lot of the time they can't even reliably do things we can do. There's a lot of fantasy stories, for example, where magic blows shit up but doesn't seem to fond of healing or repairing.

its just the issues with the magical world become all the more obvious when you know its happening alongside the "real" world, I mean when your a kid its super cool wish fulfilment but when you get older and actually think about it, the magic world is screwed

I don't think a lot of adults thought about it, either. Also, while not Harry Potter specific, a lot of stories have a Magocracy of some sort, and screw the plebes. I mean, I may not be one of the 1%, but I can still buy an iPhone. Not that I would, mind.

slightly on a tangent but now that I think about it how weird would it be to be a muggle-born or a squib?

I mean I know Herminoies parents are seen in the bookstore in "the chamber of secrets" so clearly they are aware/allowed to hang out in wizard society (perhaps to a limited extent) but even if their aware of it I can't help but think there would be this real disconnect between her and her parents, they don't really understand her "world" and her being a part of wizard society from such a young age (and this is Hermione she takes wizardry to 11) wouldn't she have a bit of disconnect or even disdain for the muggle world? and what would they say to friends/family about their slightly odd daughter that no one ever sees?

Obviously, she's going to a special school for gifted youth in....Canada. Yes, even the Brits use Canada for their imaginary fallbacks.

To be honest, I'm surprised more "Muggle-born" don't have serious family issues. I mean, I'd like to think I could love my child unconditionally, but if they started lighting things on fire or teleporting, it would certainly test that.

or being a squib...even if you did integrate well into muggle society (without having a bigass inferiority complex/being bitter) you'd always have this secret that you couldn't tell anyone, particularly hard if you develop muggle relationships, depending on your attitude you'd be stuck between worlds, one you might think is beneath you, one where you're never good enough

And given how poor wizards are at blending in, they would be completely ill-prepared by their society to adapt to the normal world, which is really damned-if-you-do. I mean, sure, you could probably find a place in one community that seems to utterly hate you, or another that you simply don't get.

Yeah, we might not look like "Back to the Future" or "Futurama"....yet. Technology is growing at an exponential rate. A lifetime ago, none of those things listed were widely available (or existed period). Just think of what it's going to look like a lifetime from now...

Not to mention, technology has evolved in ways it couldn't have been forseen. Or could have been, but wasn't. Or maybe was by some people, but not others. If you were to tell someone in the 1990s that you could have a Star Trek-like phone that allowed you not just to access communication technology, but to access information from a large database by voice command, they'd probably think you were a nerd. And maybe they'd be right. I personally have trouble not changing my Galaxy's wake-up command from "Hi Galaxy" to "Hello, Computer!"

I mean, I'm glad we don't have flying cars all over the place. Shit's dangerous enough watching for traffic on two axes. But BTF didn't predict e-readers, either. And e-ink. is. AWESOME. Maybe not as epic as a cure for cancer, but still. Even Futurama's tech is decidedly retro, based on outdated ideas we find to be silly (which, I dare say, is the point).

But yeah, even if we don't have BTTF tech, I'd be more than happy not to have medicine based on leeches and saws. A technologically stunted society sucks unless you're one of the magic users. And even then, it still sucks sometimes.

 

[Javetts Eall Raksha]

can't i have both? no seriously, i want a game that is big on both of these. with neither being the superior choice. as i've said before. give me skyrim + fallout and i'll throw money at the screen forever.

 

[Gennadios]

Magic can resurrect, and one can become a Lich. Tech isn't there yet.

 

[spartan231490]

In what way? Sure, in a magical world, I might not be born with the ability to fly, but in this world I can't afford a a private jet, hovercraft, or jet pack. Magic is really no more exclusive than technology.

Alright, I've seen people say this a couple of times and I think that people are GROSSLY underestimating even the technology that we have today.

-Right now, I live in Minnesota. It is currently 0 degrees F (-18 C) but my house can be at whatever temperature I want it to be at.

Really? this is the argument you're going with? Because home heating has been around since long before the era of technology displayed in magic worlds, and would still be there in a magic world

-I can communicate with billions of people using a device more powerful than the entire space program had when it landed on the moon.

Yes, but doing so is surprisingly expensive. You would be surprised at the number of people who cannot afford internet and computers

-The average life span of humans is at the highest it's ever been and it's going to just continue going up.

common misconception. Life expectancy in most countries is stagnant or even falling. Also, the inherent argument here is better healthcare, and there's no reason that "hospitals" in a magical world could not employ "doctors" to use magic to heal you. If anything, this argument supports my point, as only doctors and hospitals have access to that technology. There is just a system in place that allows you to pay them to make you better, that is neither magical nor technological, it is economical.

-If I need to get somewhere fast, I can trade a bit of currency to get on an airplane and be anywhere in the world within 24 hours.

again, assuming you can afford to get on an airplane, what would prevent me from hiring a caster to teleport me somewhere? Systems like that exist in many magical games and book series.

-I have a device in my phone that can pinpoint exactly where I'm at and it can tell me exactly where I need to go in order to get where I need to be.

again, not everyone can afford gps phones. Also, not really seeing the usefulness. I have eyes that can tell me where I am and where I need to go.

Yeah, we might not look like "Back to the Future" or "Futurama"....yet. Technology is growing at an exponential rate. A lifetime ago, none of those things listed were widely available (or existed period). Just think of what it's going to look like a lifetime from now...

and again, in many game worlds or book worlds, the uses of magic evolve just as fast.

NOTE: I'm not saying you can't vote for magic btw. I'm just throwing this out there because I keep seeing a lot of people complaining about how "shitty" technology is in this thread.

I never said technology was shitty, I just commented that it's expensive.

In general, you're arguments seem to mistake economical systems that allow one person to use the technology of others with everyone having access to technology. You don't have the internet, you pay an isp to allow you to access it. You don't have gps capability in your phone, you pay your provider to allow you to access their satellites, without which your phone would be useless.

 

[Vault101]

I think that's part of the turnoff for me. Like, magic tends to lead to socially and technologically stunted societies, and a lot of the time they can't even reliably do things we can do. There's a lot of fantasy stories, for example, where magic blows shit up but doesn't seem to fond of healing or repairing.

yeah that too...which is why I think maybe I could be a little forgiving of fantasy in a post-industrial society (since I have far more affinity for the 19th century than I do the medivil/whatever period) one notable book that came out this year is "City of Stairs" which notes how backwards a city is because they relied on "miracles" (gads/magic/whatever you call it) for everything, it takes place after they fell and are now occupied, it still suffers from the usual fantasy annoyaces (ughhh all the silly names!) but the author is fairly good from a literary perspective (

I don't think a lot of adults thought about it, either. Also, while not Harry Potter specific, a lot of stories have a Magocracy of some sort, and screw the plebes. I mean, I may not be one of the 1%, but I can still buy an iPhone. Not that I would, mind.

in this case I think the muggles got the better end of the deal

To be honest, I'm surprised more "Muggle-born" don't have serious family issues. I mean, I'd like to think I could love my child unconditionally, but if they started lighting things on fire or teleporting, it would certainly test that.

yeah I think this is actually a missed opportunity, you can't tell me the family dynamic wouldn't be severly strained

And given how poor wizards are at blending in, they would be completely ill-prepared by their society to adapt to the normal world, which is really damned-if-you-do. I mean, sure, you could probably find a place in one community that seems to utterly hate you, or another that you simply don't get.

well to be fair its mentioned that Squib children are shipped off to muggle schools so the early socialisation would help in that regard

 

[Something Amyss]

yeah that too...which is why I think maybe I could be a little forgiving of fantasy in a post-industrial society (since I have far more affinity for the 19th century than I do the medivil/whatever period) one notable book that came out this year is "City of Stairs" which notes how backwards a city is because they relied on "miracles" (gads/magic/whatever you call it) for everything, it takes place after they fell and are now occupied, it still suffers from the usual fantasy annoyaces (ughhh all the silly names!) but the author is fairly good from a literary perspective (

I write urban fantasy, and the regressive attitudes are one of the reasons the "traditional" magic folks are losing. Thankfully, it being a modern setting, I can skip the silly names. Most of the time. Given the them of tradition, I do pick date names, but nothing along the lines of a typical fantasy setting.

in this case I think the muggles got the better end of the deal

There's also the part where our schools seem to be less dangerous. I mean, the kids at Hogwarts are in eternal peril and it seems like this is business as usual. Hell, I think I'd feel safer leaving my kids in a US school, even with the threats of school shootings. Then again, they're giving a bunch of pre-teens loaded weapons anyway. And magic seems to be the only major problem to which magic is the solution. It's weird. There are some utility spells (I'd like to know the one to fix glasses), but there doesn't seem to be a lot of functionality.

yeah I think this is actually a missed opportunity, you can't tell me the family dynamic wouldn't be severly strained

Especially if the kids have all the power. Although, they may inform actual parents that their kids aren't to use magic outside of school (I mean, they didn't with the Duersleys, not directly, but they weren't the parents).

I'm surprised Rowling went as far as she did sometimes, though. Like house-elves. That got kind of dark. Though I've always wondered how far the analogue went. I mean, the argument that slaves were happy and liked their place was used in the real world, but now you're talking magic creatures, not human beings. There really does exist the chance that these were critters either born or bred to serve. I just sincerely doubt it. And I'm not sure that makes it any better, since they are sentient and often made to suffer.

well to be fair its mentioned that Squib children are shipped off to muggle schools so the early socialisation would help in that regard

But how quickly? I thought the discovery process was generally about the time the kids were going to go to school anyway, which would make it really later in terms of socialisation. Though come to think of it, maybe I'm assuming that because this is more or less what happens with Harry and we don't see other kids, because I don't explicitly remember when other kids start displaying magic or how "tested" they are.

 

[Vigormortis]

Realistically? Technology.

A technological world is not only a possibility, we currently live in one. Magic has always been, and will likely always be, a figment of the human imagination.

So, a technological world for me.

can't i have both? no seriously, i want a game that is big on both of these. with neither being the superior choice. as i've said before. give me skyrim + fallout and i'll throw money at the screen forever.

Done [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun] and done [http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/].

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm waiting for the day where people stop limiting parts of the "Fantasy" and "Sci-Fi" Setting and we can all have a game where it turns out the Aliens we're looking for are in fact the Elves and Dwarves. Maybe throw in all yer other fantasy creatures like Dragons and such as well if you must, but still.

That used to be the case, the split only got firmly defined relatively recently.

In D&D, for example, elves (and certain other creatures) can see in the dark. In old D&D, this was because they were seeing in infra red. Some creatures even had active IR, they produced an IR light source to allow them to see, which meant they could be seen further away by creatures using passive IR. Also, if some human was with the elf with a lantern, then that'd spoil the elf's IR. Then they changed it to just seeing in the dark cause magic.

In a Conan the Barbarian story, Queen of the Black Coast, he finds an abandoned city where

Spoiler

An intelligent species had evolved long before humanity, but there was an earthquake or something, and something leaked into their water source and caused them to degenerate

.

Also, in various stories, people and objects tend to be drawn to the centre of the planet they are on by the totally real and sciency force of gravity.

 

[The Raw Shark]

That used to be the case, the split only got firmly defined relatively recently.

In D&D, for example, elves (and certain other creatures) can see in the dark. In old D&D, this was because they were seeing in infra red. Some creatures even had active IR, they produced an IR light source to allow them to see, which meant they could be seen further away by creatures using passive IR. Also, if some human was with the elf with a lantern, then that'd spoil the elf's IR. Then they changed it to just seeing in the dark cause magic.

In a Conan the Barbarian story, Queen of the Black Coast, he finds an abandoned city where

Spoiler

An intelligent species had evolved long before humanity, but there was an earthquake or something, and something leaked into their water source and caused them to degenerate

.

Also, in various stories, people and objects tend to be drawn to the centre of the planet they are on by the totally real and sciency force of gravity.

Ah f*** me, now I hate it even more that I had to leave for a different school when I was having my first game of D&D.

Oh well, thank you for informing me of that though.

 

[BeerTent]

While I strongly prefer both, I still prefer technology over magic, but here's a twist, if anyone sees this before answering the poll.

Magic can advance.

I guess we can see it to a degree with the Avatar series. In the first set, we only had four elements of Magic, Water, air, earth, and fire. But around the time Korra's about, We've learned metal-bending. Lightening is a technique fire can pickup on. Water-bending has numerous advancements not yet explored. Steam, liquids, healing, blood. In this setting, there was a time where Earth benders just do rock. They had no idea that metal can be altered, hence, why their concentration camps were made purely of metal. Now-a-days with Korra, this just isn't possible. It's just another technique.

Perhaps another idea, of mixing the abilities. I'm working on a game now where magic can advance, where people can work together, and alter elements around them. Fire and earth? Work with it enough, and the two could potentially learn magma magic. Magic can be invented, continued, just like our TV's.

Still though. Technology is where it's at.

 

[Joost Klessens]

As pointed out before in this thread, technology, which is sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic. Following this reasoning, and assuming you would have access to magic in the magical universe, we could reformulate the question to whether you would rather live in the now, or go back in time to the medieval ages with the knowledge (and optionally some devices) you have now. Assuming you have some rudimentary understanding of some modern technology, your knowledge and skills will probably be considered magical in the medieval ages. Just food for thought.

All in all there is too little information to make an informed choice. Would I be the only/most powerful magic user? Would I even be a magic user. Are magic users persecuted and burned at stakes? Is there a reason there is no technology or can technology still be 'invented'? What are the limits to the magic or is it unlimited? etc, etc...

That being said I am still inclined to go with the magic world. Especially if I am a magic user myself, and preferably if I can take the knowledge I have now with me. But even if that is not the case, I think that there is no reason magic could not be used for most of the mundane and extraordinary things we now use technology for. And as an added bonus, magic seems to be less restricted, and could potentially be used for even more extraordinary things.. But that is just assumption.

Lastly I would like to add that the restriction of a magical world stuck in the middle ages is a weird restriction, which for a fair comparison you should also extend to the technological world, or not impose at all. So then the comparison would be either a magical medieval world or our medieval past, as there was a basis of technology back then too. Or choose between our current world, and a magical world in which magic has also evolved to provide a level of comfort and progress, like our technology. This, in my opinion, would be a better/fairer comparison, and in those cases I would definitely go for the magical world, as it just seems less restrictive and a lot cooler!

tl;dr: Unfair comparison, due to restriction on magic world, plus a lack of definition on what exactly constitutes magic. Still inclined to go with magic, as it seems to be less restrictive, especially if the question is reformulated to make it a fairer comparison!

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'mma go with technology.
Couldn't imagine living in a world without flushing toilets or toilet paper.

I never got why in all these fantasy worlds, they don't use magic for things like running water, heat, etc. I'd imagine it kinda like Flintstones but with magic instead of dinosaurs obviously. I'm not a fan of standard fantasy RPGs much because I wouldn't want to live in those worlds. Plus, anything that isn't real is fantasy, yet we keep getting games made in the same fucking fantasy setting over and over again, it's really on par with WWII/Modern Warfare shooters.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Plus, anything that isn't real is fantasy, yet we keep getting games made in the same fucking fantasy setting over and over again, it's really on par with WWII/Modern Warfare shooters.

Yup, it has to be a boring version of what the author thought Europe was like, and they are almost always wrong even before the dragons are introduced..

Worse is when people justify that it has to be that way, otherwise it wouldn't be "realistic".

 

[LostCrusader]

Well I got to vote for magical considering I play mage in every RPG.

Also, I don't think it being a magical world means that the technology always has to stagnate in the middle ages. If anything, having magic would just change the rate that technology is developed. Plenty of fantasy games have technologically advanced groups like the Dwemer in TES. One of my favorite games to be a mage was Mass Effect because it blended both in fun ways.

Random side note, I can't be the only person who saw the thread title and thought of the Venture Bros magic vs technology fight.

 

[jklinders]

Why not science fantasy ala Sega'a old Phantasy Star series? I rather enjoy the mostly seamless blending of technology and magic in those games and kinda wish there were more well written settings like that.

 

[Squilookle]

Magic is the one stupid thing that holds medieval games back and makes them generic and crap. Thank god for games like Chivalry, and...