Alright I'll concede the point. A lot of mods are pretty stupid though and leave me wondering just WTF was going through the modders head. Also I didn't know Chivalry and Natural Selection 2 were Mods.barbzilla said:
Poll: Modding is EXTREMELY important in games. Agreed?
- Thread starter Lygus
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Take the Battlefield series:
BF:1942 saw the development of excellent mods such as Desert Combat (which directly inspired BF2), Eve of Destruction (which directly inspired Battlefield: Vietnam) and Forgotten Hope.
BF2 modders gave us classics such as Project Reality and Forgotten Hope 2 (both of which I still play regularily)
BF3...no modding allowed. I did not purchase BF3. I would love a WW2 BF which features the Frostbite engine.
These are not amateur projects which only slightly alter the original content. They are highly polished and unique titles in their own right. After enough development time and dedication, mods typically surpass the commercial game which they build upon.
Check out the Forgotten Hope 2 website, there is too much content to summarize and it is all free:
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/
BF:1942 saw the development of excellent mods such as Desert Combat (which directly inspired BF2), Eve of Destruction (which directly inspired Battlefield: Vietnam) and Forgotten Hope.
BF2 modders gave us classics such as Project Reality and Forgotten Hope 2 (both of which I still play regularily)
BF3...no modding allowed. I did not purchase BF3. I would love a WW2 BF which features the Frostbite engine.
These are not amateur projects which only slightly alter the original content. They are highly polished and unique titles in their own right. After enough development time and dedication, mods typically surpass the commercial game which they build upon.
Check out the Forgotten Hope 2 website, there is too much content to summarize and it is all free:
http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/
The more freedom, the better the mods! That's why it works so well for Bethesda's stuff! And Minecraft!
As for Left 4 Dead and such, mods don't make much difference outside of aesthetics, still, even though my machete only looks like a tomahawk and my AK47 only looks like an M14, having them as something I prefer makes me want to play the game more. I always thought Valve's weapons were kind of stale...like, the Resistance Crossbow was cool, but it didn't even have a scope, more, just a zoom feature, which is just tacky. Killing Floor benefits from mods quite a bit, too, and it's an example of a game with nice weapons.
As for Left 4 Dead and such, mods don't make much difference outside of aesthetics, still, even though my machete only looks like a tomahawk and my AK47 only looks like an M14, having them as something I prefer makes me want to play the game more. I always thought Valve's weapons were kind of stale...like, the Resistance Crossbow was cool, but it didn't even have a scope, more, just a zoom feature, which is just tacky. Killing Floor benefits from mods quite a bit, too, and it's an example of a game with nice weapons.
Chivalry spawned from Age of Chivalry and Natural Selection 2 spawned from Natural Selection. Those were examples of full blown games that have spawned due to a healthy modding community.canadamus_prime said:
I don't disagree with you though. Much of what is out there, is in fact crap. That doesn't mean we can't gain some amazing diamonds in the rough though.
I never did really give much of a crap about mods.
If people like them, then go ahead, but IMO the work should be done by the devs themselves and if they rely on mods to make their game good because they are a lazy ass then I just wont have a favorable view on the game (Yes, this was writen with YOU on my mind, Minecraft!)
I just cant be bothered to use them... I want to grab the game and play it, thats it. Unless is a game breaking bug fixed, I never did install any kind of mods nor I intent to.
If people like them, then go ahead, but IMO the work should be done by the devs themselves and if they rely on mods to make their game good because they are a lazy ass then I just wont have a favorable view on the game (Yes, this was writen with YOU on my mind, Minecraft!)
I just cant be bothered to use them... I want to grab the game and play it, thats it. Unless is a game breaking bug fixed, I never did install any kind of mods nor I intent to.
WOAH WOAH WOAH. borderlands 2 in third person?LuisGuimaraes said:
holy shit thank you for posting that, i might have to fire that game up again just to play with that.
I don't really see it as that important at all. I do use mods, but only ever considered them ancillary to the main game, never an essential part of the experience. For the most part, with a few exceptions, I try and use ones that affect my games as minimally and subtly as possible if I use them at all. I've never considered modding essential, and whether or not a game is capable of being modded has never influenced my purchasing decision in any way.
Also, I've never heard anyone corporation, player or otherwise suggest modding is "declining." Do you have a source of someone in the game industry claiming that modding is "declining?"
Also, I've never heard anyone corporation, player or otherwise suggest modding is "declining." Do you have a source of someone in the game industry claiming that modding is "declining?"
If the game NEEDS mods to be considered good, then it is a shit game by default. I generally try to avoid those.
This poll question is more loaded than Lindsey Lohan on a Friday night!
I don't think mods are essential to a game. But the right mods can definitely impact the right game.
For instance, "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines" was a decent game with a loyal cult following (myself included).
But the patches that game out of the mod community definitely helped take it to another level.
And of course, the mods to the "Elder Scrolls" games (particularly "Oblivion") are damned near legendary.
I don't think mods are essential to a game. But the right mods can definitely impact the right game.
For instance, "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines" was a decent game with a loyal cult following (myself included).
But the patches that game out of the mod community definitely helped take it to another level.
And of course, the mods to the "Elder Scrolls" games (particularly "Oblivion") are damned near legendary.
Allowing a modding community is worth a hell of a lot in my book. It shows an agreement between developer/publisher and customer that when you buy a product, it is yours to do with as you wish. This is huge when a lot of publishers want to consider games either as licenses or as ongoing services. Nope, you paid for this game, it is yours, fuck with it whatever way you want. I'll always give Creative Assembly, Bethesda, CD Project, the dev of Arma(sorry, I know you're a hallmark of what modding can do, but I do not play you), credit in their commitment to treating their customers like how most every other industry has to treat their customers. You don't see car companies try to lock you out of certain features of a car because you bought it used.
It's pretty important for PC games. It's a lot of extra value, even if it's just enhancing the vanilla game without adding anything. Then of course there's the reliability with which fans of games will fix its issues, from the myriad of bugs in Skyrim to the online in SimCity. And if you're done with the game or don't mind your immersion going down the toilet there's full conversions and any number of hilarious sound/model/texture replacements. Some reasonably large and populat games (Counter Strike, DayZ) are just mods.
Naturally, large, stupid publishers are against this sort of thing and are heading towards trying to disable it or regulate it. All I can say is that I hope people have the fortitude to not buy games that show this approach, or it will become the norm. Promising to support modding later in the game's life is not an excuse either.
Naturally, large, stupid publishers are against this sort of thing and are heading towards trying to disable it or regulate it. All I can say is that I hope people have the fortitude to not buy games that show this approach, or it will become the norm. Promising to support modding later in the game's life is not an excuse either.
Of course modding is important, however I strongly believe that you shouldn't mod a game till you after you've experienced it in it's vanilla state.
I like the idea of modding for PC games, but my experiences with it have generally been that it isn't worth the effort of trying to find decent mods in a massive pile of shit and then hoping it will install correctly.
Look at mount and blade warband the vanilla game was amazing But with mods it expanded on the features adding banks and land owership hiring people to recruit solider's for you sending diplomats and mesengers Joining a lords army as a foot solider it makes the game so much more
IMO any game that has a dedicated modding community is going to be a game that will last for years because of the talented modders out there. Look at Morrowind, which was released in 2002, and its still being modded. The games getting more interesting because the players are putting in the work to make it more interesting and doing things that the devs wouldnt have bothered with. For example theres a couple mods where you can take a siltstrider or a boat and instead of teleporting you to your destination you can choose a scenic option so you can look at the world as it takes you there. Another good example is battlefront 2 where there were these massive and well designed player made maps from modding
On top of that sometimes mods make entirely new games. DayZ is a great example. From what Ive played of Blood Dragon its also pretty much a mod, or a bunch of mods for far cry 3. On that particular topic Ive always wanted someone to take BF3 and mod it to make Battlefront 3 but DICE has never released moding tools so it just cant happen.
There really is no reason not to release modding tools. They create communities, allow players to further immerse themselves, help a game achieve further longevity, and quite possibly sell more copies (liek with DayZ selling hundreds of arma2 copies)
On top of that sometimes mods make entirely new games. DayZ is a great example. From what Ive played of Blood Dragon its also pretty much a mod, or a bunch of mods for far cry 3. On that particular topic Ive always wanted someone to take BF3 and mod it to make Battlefront 3 but DICE has never released moding tools so it just cant happen.
There really is no reason not to release modding tools. They create communities, allow players to further immerse themselves, help a game achieve further longevity, and quite possibly sell more copies (liek with DayZ selling hundreds of arma2 copies)
Diablo 3 and Sim City's natures make them harder(read - almost impossible.) to be modified, there are also no tools far as I'm aware. Battlefield 3 was also mod-locked, Starcraft 2 allows special maps and campaigns but they're fairly regulated, there are a few workarounds but the main distribution route is through the in-game arcade and Blizzard decides what fits in there some stuff like file sizes are limited so it exists but it's somewhat restrained(They still managed to recreate Starcraft 1 and Brood War campaigns to glorious proportions by the way.), they used to have an idea about charging the community for them and giving profit back to the devs(minus a cut of course) but it never was implemented.New Frontiersman said:
On less extreme examples less and less games come out with mod tools, Deus Ex Human Revolution had no tools which was ridiculous given the amount of potential the base game had I'm sure by now someone would have remade Deus Ex's campaign on it(much like Black Mesa.), the usual assumption is that the more retarded publishers fear mods will compete with stupid meaningless dlc. For that matter neither did any other recent Eidos release far as I know. Most of EA's games are following the trend, THQ(or at least Relic) had a thriving mod community but it seems those are going extinct to favor DLC.
The thing with that is they did it without a toolset. It was done with custom tools, hacks and so on.Gottesstrafe said:
BioWare gave us toolsets for the Infinity Engine, for the Aurora Engine and for Eclipse. NWN and it's successor both have small active communities, persistent worlds and mods thanks to their toolsets. Bethesda's older games are still played today thanks to continual fan mods, bug fixes, overhauls and expansions that keep them interesting. I've made mods myself for many games, usually for myself, but some I've released.
I like the modding communities which I've been a part of. Unlike most other forums, modding communities are almost always helpful all the time, sharing and helping and rarely are there trolls or flame fests or half the nonsense we get on this site.
But I think apart from a handful of devs, modding and toolsets are dying. With the rise of the console (how they superseded the vastly superior PC platform is beyond me) there is no need for toolsets as the majority of players have no access to their file systems. Further, modding goes against absolutely EVERYTHING corporations like Activision and EA stand for (and IMO is the reason why we'll never see another BioWare game with a toolset again). Dedicated servers, gone. Toolsets, gone. Direct connect to IP address/LAN play, gone. We're even slowly losing the ability to play offline FFS, and most players are accepting it, or worse, paying for the privilege.
Players making their own content can't work in today's Activision/EA model. Now, they wish to create disposable games with a shelf life of no more than 1 year, at which point they re-release the same game again with an incremented number. They will sell bullshit DLCs for extra money. Player content cannot exist in the tightly controlled and regulated Diablo III environment and mustn't compete with their DLCs. In an age where "everything has to have multiplayer" it's further complicated.
I think we'll continue to get toolsets but from only very few developers and the kickstarter/indie scene. The current AAA model is going to fail at some point, hopefully morons will stop buying CoD titles annually (and drooling) and the industry will move on. Or perhaps the singularity is fast approaching, as even the PS4 is built on X86 and eventually the "exclusive" console thing will end. It's still amazing the PC, PS3 and 360 owners of the same game can't play with each other because the corporations said so.