Poll: MORAL CHOICE TIME... WOOHOO!

[loc978]

...guys, morality questions aren't reasonable. There's always a better option than what is presented, but you're not allowed to use the better option. The question isn't meant as a puzzle, it's meant as a way to judge character.

 

[iblis666]

you - as the leader i cant go out
1 robot - basically as the ships computer he cant go out
1 scientist - as a scientist that is needed probably for after we get the plant he cant
1 hot girl/guy/thing (im not judging) - to much of a sentimental attachment
1 alien - yeah right and start a intergalactic war i think not
1 minority (note: im not racist, this is just for the choice) - only real choice

 

[Trivun]

If you're going to post silly stuff like that in a logic debate then I'm not going to take you seriously, just so's you know.

Guys, please don't try to argue logic with me. I had a housemate for one and a half years who did Philosophy and would argue logic and paradoxes with me regularly. I did Logic as a module at university last semester. I do various logic puzzles in my spare time. For fun. And I've done them since the age of, roughly, six years old, when I joined Mensa. I am a logic king. So you're going to lose this argument. Deal with it.

This isn't a debate. We're just trying to get a straight answer out of you.

Well, I apologise if I sound confusing, but it does seem to me as though the OP him/herself is trying to cause a debate instead, what with his/her constant posting against anything sensible I say regarding the original question and just posting the same thing over and again (i.e. "that's not possible/that can't happen/etc."). However, I do feel my original answer was completely straight and coherent and so forth, so I'm not quite sure where you see any confusion. As for the robot, he's stated in the OP as being there with navigation data and whatnot, knowing the way home better than anyone else, so if we suddenly decide his data can't get transferred to the ship then there is no more point to him being there. You don't just take some random robot on a scientific mission for no reason, it can be safely assumed after all that all of the other 'characters' in the poll are experts in some scientific field as well as being the token 'hot chick', 'minority', etc...

Hopefully that's cleared some things up for you, in any case .

 

[Crystalite]

Uhm, this is a logical debate now?
All I saw was nitpicking with highly flawed premises, and I love nitpicking.

Really. Boasting with some feats in the internet is just not a clever thing to do. You joined Mensa with six? wow, I had two university degrees at that age! Believe you, and believe me.

You are also just nitpicking. The initial scenario is one that was to be seen in the abstract. We are all failing to do this because this is actually fun. You are failing to do this and take yourself too serious in the process, I am afraid.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

What you are doing is not finding logic, what you are doing is the smart sounding equivalent of nitpicking. There is always a way for the creator of a scenario to do whatever the hell he wants with it, no matter what age you joined Mensa for your incredible genius.

 

[Ghored]

Then why is the robot there? Why does it have this data, and why is it the only thing to have the data at all? If it's "not possible" to transfer the data, as you say, then that means, by definition, the data cannot be used on the ship. However, that data inside the robot is the only thing that will allow the crew to get home, as according the the OP it's all the navigational data and whatnot. Meaning that if the data can't be transferred then the crew can't get home, so they'll all die anyway and the foliage is of zero use, thus refuting the entire point of the thread and original question from the start. It's basically a paradox of pointlessness, caused by your stubborn refusal to understand basic logic. So there must be a way for the data to be transferred otherwise the original question is completely meaningless.

After reading this thread, I was just about to post something like this, because the OP basically screwed this question up when he included a navigational robot that can't actually transfer or copy data. I thank you, Trivun, for saving me a lot of thinking.


If the question didn't involve said robot, I would send myself in. ME2 style revitalization and all that.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

Send the alien. Humans and human-made robots that know the way home get to survive first, but we appreciate your sacrifice random being from another planet.

 

[Trivun]

Who wouldn't send the robot? You can always back up its memories or repair it when it gets back.
Why don't we have space suits?

acid, acidacidacidacidacidacidacid... acid...

Me:Ok so we don't have space suits.
Robot: YES
Me: That means it's up to you to go and retrieve that plant.
Robot: BUT I WILL RUST. YOU NEED ME TO NAVIGATE.
Me: No problem we can just copy your Brain files and upload them to the ships onboard computer where you can navigate from there and we can later put your mind into a new body.
Robot: SOUNDS LOGICAL. I SHALL GO NOW. *goes out airlock*
Half hour later:
Robot: *drags self into airlock*
Me: Robot did you get the plant?
Robot: YEZ I HAVE RET- VVVZT- REVED THE PLANT
Me: You have saved humanity!!!

nothing to copy it on

And if you see my previous post, this counts as a stupid condition. My reasoning being that there has to be a way to connect the robot's systems to the ship, even if it's wireless, otherwise the data it has is of no use anyway and thus the robot's entire purpose for being there is non-existent. So you would simply copy the data straight to the ship anyway before sending the robot out. It's as simple as that, and is guaranteed to work as a solution.

nope, not possible, sorry

Then why is the robot there? Why does it have this data, and why is it the only thing to have the data at all? If it's "not possible" to transfer the data, as you say, then that means, by definition, the data cannot be used on the ship. However, that data inside the robot is the only thing that will allow the crew to get home, as according the the OP it's all the navigational data and whatnot. Meaning that if the data can't be transferred then the crew can't get home, so they'll all die anyway and the foliage is of zero use, thus refuting the entire point of the thread and original question from the start. It's basically a paradox of pointlessness, caused by your stubborn refusal to understand basic logic. So there must be a way for the data to be transferred otherwise the original question is completely meaningless.

And if you see my previous post, this counts as a stupid condition. My reasoning being that there has to be a way to connect the robot's systems to the ship, even if it's wireless, otherwise the data it has is of no use anyway and thus the robot's entire purpose for being there is non-existent. So you would simply copy the data straight to the ship anyway before sending the robot out. It's as simple as that, and is guaranteed to work as a solution.

Maybe because the robot has a useful skillset? Maybe because he is an awesome person?

If you're going to post silly stuff like that in a logic debate then I'm not going to take you seriously, just so's you know.

Guys, please don't try to argue logic with me. I had a housemate for one and a half years who did Philosophy and would argue logic and paradoxes with me regularly. I did Logic as a module at university last semester. I do various logic puzzles in my spare time. For fun. And I've done them since the age of, roughly, six years old, when I joined Mensa. I am a logic king. So you're going to lose this argument. Deal with it.

i also took philosophy, so this is about to get interesting. the robot has a purpose of testing moral rights and wrongs, and THAT, my friend, is the true purpose of the experiment. and to answer your other question, the robot knows the navigation THE BEST. so there is a chance of survival, but its a major risk.

Okay, but bearing in mind we're almost 150 posts into the thread, you're not allowed to just pull random stuff from your ass to validate your point. If we assume that the robot is just there for the morality testing purpose then I'll accept that, but that doesn't negate any of the previous points I made, and thus I would still send the robot out to get the data anyway. It's still the only reasonably logical choice, and regarding the moralistic testing, I'd pass as being morally upright when it comes to saving human lives because I've taken the course of action that would result in human lives being saved and all human lives on board the ship being saved, while also ensuring with the data transfer that the ship is still able to be navigated home successfully. So everyone wins!

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I would send the alien, but there's no choice for that.

Why? He's the only one I know won't instantly die.

 

[illas]

Assuming I'm in charge, I go out - since I'm not comfortable with the idea of ordering anyone else to their death.

 

[Trivun]

What you are doing is not finding logic, what you are doing is the smart sounding equivalent of nitpicking. There is always a way for the creator of a scenario to do whatever the hell he wants with it, no matter what age you joined Mensa for your incredible genius.

Ummmm, apparently you quoted me (and your comment suggests as much), but my post hasn't appeared anywhere? That's slightly weird, never had that happen before...

Anyway, not to sound 'smart' or to be arrogant, but I am finding logic here. It's nitpicking, fine, but it's still finding logic. And I don't claim to have incredible genius, I ended up with AABCC at A-Level and I'm struggling quite a lot at university, I've never been top of my class for anything (well, except Maths, but only in like Year 9 and 10...), and I'm hardly the only person to have got into Mensa at age six. There are kids who've managed to get in aged three and four, for heaven's sake. I mentioned it only because the entrance exams are mostly logic puzzles, so I figured it would be fairly relevant to the point I was trying to make...

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

The robot.

If everyone rolls over and complains, I'd go, but not before stealing all the good food.

 

[Crystalite]

Okay, fair enough. But why exactly does being human naturally make you more deserving of life?

Yeah, I do think we are rather derailing the thread ;-)
But who cares, other people think is is a debate of logic, aparently.

I am more deserving of life, because I am in fact alive. A machine has no life.
My core point is the thing with the reproductability.
Yes, it is getting weird, it got weird as soon as we where talking about true sentience in a machine. If we assume a level of technology that can do anything, and it can copy me the same way a computer program can be copied, the problem is void.

If the robot and me both are backuped, why would anyone of us not sacrifice itself?
If I get a body back, I would not mind to much parting with this one, really.

My point was really that I see a robot as backuped, and a human not.
No, that does not go against physics. Just beyond our concievable technology at the moment.

 

[Baron von Awesome]

I hate to say it, but I'd probably send the hot chick/dude. The robot is needed to complete this extremely critical mission with the greatest likelihood of getting home. I assume the scientist and myself also have some importance in making sure the mission is achieved successfully. The alien is of great diplomatic importance, and the minority... well, I assume in the future the minority will be a part of some kind of strange community like the first Amish spaceman, and I wouldn't want to make the Amish mad... So hot person. Just because they are hot doesn't mean that they are a fun person and my love slave. Even so, no one would question my decision, and the hot person would make a great Memorial statue as the person who saved mankind.

 

[vociferocity]

what a poorly thought out space exploration. seriously, what the fuck? a pretty much useless robot, ONE scientist, an alien (what does the alien do? what's its purpose on the ship?), a hot person (?????????) and a "minority" (what does that even MEAN), and I suppose I'm the captain? who the fuck would organise a space trip -- an IMPORTANT space exploration trip, where we have to SAVE EARTH -- and send ONLY these people?? jesus fuck.

ugh, I vote we all go back home and plan out a better trip. this one is bullshit.

"you leave, saving everyone on the ship, but dooming earth"

--seriously, what??? how does that even follow?

"you all go out, leaving the robot to return"

WHY WOULD WE ALL GO OUT??? and if the robot can return, then why would just me going out doom earth? why doesn't this option doom earth?

"the air will kill anyone before they can make it back to the ship"

jesus christ, why don't we have space suits. I just. seriously, was this mission organised by like, a mentally challenged four year old?

 

[supagama]

Who wouldn't send the robot? You can always back up its memories or repair it when it gets back.
Why don't we have space suits?

acid, acidacidacidacidacidacidacid... acid...

Me:Ok so we don't have space suits.
Robot: YES
Me: That means it's up to you to go and retrieve that plant.
Robot: BUT I WILL RUST. YOU NEED ME TO NAVIGATE.
Me: No problem we can just copy your Brain files and upload them to the ships onboard computer where you can navigate from there and we can later put your mind into a new body.
Robot: SOUNDS LOGICAL. I SHALL GO NOW. *goes out airlock*
Half hour later:
Robot: *drags self into airlock*
Me: Robot did you get the plant?
Robot: YEZ I HAVE RET- VVVZT- REVED THE PLANT
Me: You have saved humanity!!!

nothing to copy it on

And if you see my previous post, this counts as a stupid condition. My reasoning being that there has to be a way to connect the robot's systems to the ship, even if it's wireless, otherwise the data it has is of no use anyway and thus the robot's entire purpose for being there is non-existent. So you would simply copy the data straight to the ship anyway before sending the robot out. It's as simple as that, and is guaranteed to work as a solution.

nope, not possible, sorry

Then why is the robot there? Why does it have this data, and why is it the only thing to have the data at all? If it's "not possible" to transfer the data, as you say, then that means, by definition, the data cannot be used on the ship. However, that data inside the robot is the only thing that will allow the crew to get home, as according the the OP it's all the navigational data and whatnot. Meaning that if the data can't be transferred then the crew can't get home, so they'll all die anyway and the foliage is of zero use, thus refuting the entire point of the thread and original question from the start. It's basically a paradox of pointlessness, caused by your stubborn refusal to understand basic logic. So there must be a way for the data to be transferred otherwise the original question is completely meaningless.

And if you see my previous post, this counts as a stupid condition. My reasoning being that there has to be a way to connect the robot's systems to the ship, even if it's wireless, otherwise the data it has is of no use anyway and thus the robot's entire purpose for being there is non-existent. So you would simply copy the data straight to the ship anyway before sending the robot out. It's as simple as that, and is guaranteed to work as a solution.

Maybe because the robot has a useful skillset? Maybe because he is an awesome person?

If you're going to post silly stuff like that in a logic debate then I'm not going to take you seriously, just so's you know.

Guys, please don't try to argue logic with me. I had a housemate for one and a half years who did Philosophy and would argue logic and paradoxes with me regularly. I did Logic as a module at university last semester. I do various logic puzzles in my spare time. For fun. And I've done them since the age of, roughly, six years old, when I joined Mensa. I am a logic king. So you're going to lose this argument. Deal with it.

i also took philosophy, so this is about to get interesting. the robot has a purpose of testing moral rights and wrongs, and THAT, my friend, is the true purpose of the experiment. and to answer your other question, the robot knows the navigation THE BEST. so there is a chance of survival, but its a major risk.

Okay, but bearing in mind we're almost 150 posts into the thread, you're not allowed to just pull random stuff from your ass to validate your point. If we assume that the robot is just there for the morality testing purpose then I'll accept that, but that doesn't negate any of the previous points I made, and thus I would still send the robot out to get the data anyway. It's still the only reasonably logical choice, and regarding the moralistic testing, I'd pass as being morally upright when it comes to saving human lives because I've taken the course of action that would result in human lives being saved and all human lives on board the ship being saved, while also ensuring with the data transfer that the ship is still able to be navigated home successfully. So everyone wins!

thats perfectly fine by me