Poll: My friend is a Communist

[ElPatron]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Of course not. The equal sharing of poverty is awesome!

Communism didn't work in real life, and don't think that it makes sense in paper. There are a myriad reasons to consider all forms of Communism and Marxism inherently flawed.

I see what you're getting at OP- Your friend could well be an anarchist in which case you'd be asking why does she obey the law?

Anarchy =/= GTA in real life

It works in theory and paper. Not in real life. I can't be more clear.

Wikipedia has a page on the criticisms of communism, that tackles the drawbacks of mass killings and ect, etc, etc.

Don't read that one. Read the one that talks about communism in theory.

Every major political system on wikipedia is flawed in theory. Communism is not an exception.

 

[CaptainKarma]

That doesn't make them more equal, that means they take a greater share. "more equal" is an absolutely meaningless term, thats the whole point behind the phrase in the novel - its about how a totalitarian (which is not the same as communist) government uses propaganda and bends language for its own ends.

And the "inherently imperfect" thing is the greatest con-trick ever pulled. What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect and greedy by nature, and not just molded into that by a capitalist system? And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

I'm pretty sure that's the way he's using the phrase.

It's a riff on people who say one thing and do another.

And human history is a history of greed, corruption and self service. A history that stretches back long before capitalism.

Here's the thing: If that happens, it is NOT proper communism. It is corrupt communism. And I don't give a damn how far back greed and corruption go, thats still no reason we should embrace greed and not combat it.

Never said it was proper communism. But communism goes against human nature for the most part.

It requires total honesty and humans just aren't honest, we're self serving. It's fine to imagine a utopia but to expect one to work is stupid.

Yes, but you've missed me other point. There are three problems with that.
1)Can you prove that humans are self serving and greedy?
2) If yes, can you prove that this is innate, and not a result of being brought up in a capitalist society?
3)If yes, can you explain why we should support a system that encourages dishonesty and greed, rather than a system that tries to work around it?

I'm also unclear why communism requires total honesty, but I'm more concerned with your argument about "communism wont work because of human nature" which is a talking point that gets repeated loads with very little justification.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The trouble is after a certain point(larger than a small city) those in charge live like kings and start taking resources for themselves. Kinda like what Unregulated Capitalism is doing now.

Unregulated capitalism doesn't exist right now except in Somalia.

Between lack of regulation and bad regulation the US is the very model of Unfettered capitalism.

 

[Bloodstain]

So? Why would it be a bad thing if she likes the communist idea? Jesus, communism isn't bad. China isn't real communism, nor was the UDSSR. Those are dictatorships disguised as communism.
Communism is highly humanistic.

I fail to see why someone should be bad if s/he doesn't support democracy. I don't support democracy, I am in favour of aristrocracy -- true aristrocracy, mind you. It literally means: "Reign of the best". The people with the most knowledge rule. That how Plato envisioned his system as well -- and B. F. Skinner created a modern version of this, called "Walden Two".
Am I "evil" now? I think not.

 

[Plazmatic]

The trouble is after a certain point(larger than a small city) those in charge live like kings and start taking resources for themselves. Kinda like what Unregulated Capitalism is doing now.

Unregulated capitalism doesn't exist right now except in Somalia.

I live under a conservative right wing government in Britain

You live in the 18th century? How the hell do you have Internet access? And where did you get your time machine?

America for example for its supposed hate for all things "Socialist" is a very Socialist society. Things like roads, government funded hospitals, military, police forces, fire fighters, teachers, public education, the VA, Medicare, and even the idea of elected officals, are all very very very "un-capitalist".

Not at all. Socialism in an American context refers to entitlement programs: medicare, medicaid, social security, and publicly funded education, but there's nothing "socialist" whatsoever about a government raising an army to protect its subjects or hiring police officers to enforce its laws. Public roads are also hardly "un-capitalist", as no private enterprise has ever bothered to build road networks and charge travelers for using them.

A truly Capitalist society, would be something akin to Corporate Anarchy, wars would be fought by privately funded armies between Corporations over assets.

That's called anarcho-capitalism.

Roads, education, and healthcare would be funded by your employer (or not in most cases).

Wrong. Roads fall into disrepair, while education and medicine are funded by their customers/clients, just like any other service.

libertarianism has a social policy that consists of not giving a toss about anyone except yourself, and agressively imposing religious doctrines on other people, it excludes the possibility of being called social in any way.

You apparently know absolutely jack shit about libertarianism. The REALITY is that libertarianism has a social policy of letting people live as they choose so long as they respect the rights of others to do the same, and not giving a toss about religion. There's a reason why so many libertarians are also atheists.

Public and communal sectors in government, if you believe in public sectors, your a socialist, you may be a communist, but you are CERTAINLY NOT a capitalist. A capitalist would be apposed to probably even the system of government itself, or at least any inclusion of it in the economic sector

Bullshit. Capitalists depend on government to protect their property rights.

Imagine what could be achieved if mankind was truly unified. An end to the pettiness of greed, the slaughters in the name of religion, the subjugation of Third World populations for the profit of Western corporations, the famine, the wars, the disease.

We could be a great people, we simply lack the light to show us the way

That sounds awfully familiar...

...because what you're describing requires pretty much stripping humans of their humanity. Personally, I have nothing against stripping humans of their humanity, but if we're going to do that, we can become something much cooler than mind-controlled ants.

Good. I hope the OP's friend is a Communist. Today's sick capitalist society needs more Communists. Here's to hoping she doesn't lapse into defending the status quo. Communism might not be the best political system but it's better than one based on the "free market."

Uh, no. A system based on the free market really is best; the problem is that we don't live in anything that remotely resembles a free market.

What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect

And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

No. Capitalism harnesses the power of human greed to generate immense amounts of wealth while minimizing the damage that our imperfections cause. We start getting problems, however, when governments fuck with the system by tacking artificial rewards and punishments onto the natural ones, regulating small businesses into oblivion and bailing out big ones that need to be pruned.

YUP ITS ALL A SECRET GOVERNMENT PLOT. FEDERALISM HOPES TO DESTROY SMALL BUSINESS SO IT CAN DO, uh.. how about.. ALIEN RESEARCH. WOOO GO FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, FUCK PUBLIC WELFARE AND LONG LIVE THE CONFEDERACY.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The trouble is after a certain point(larger than a small city) those in charge live like kings and start taking resources for themselves. Kinda like what Unregulated Capitalism is doing now.

Unregulated capitalism doesn't exist right now except in Somalia.

Between lack of regulation and bad regulation the US is the very model of Unfettered capitalism.

If you actually believe that, then either you know nothing about the US or you know nothing about capitalism. Probably both. Or you live in the 19th century, in which case I'm again wondering where the hell all these time machines are coming from and why I haven't gotten one yet. Either way, everything from the minimum wage to the war on drugs to the bank bailouts to those stupid orange tips that they put on Airsoft guns and Super Soakers says you're full of not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

Bad regulation and lack of regulation(which caused the bailouts sense no one was minding the chicken house) and bending over for corporations pretty much sides in the direction of unfettered capitalism. Are we there yet, no but that's the direction in which the powers that be want to go in.

Its still dysfunctional capitalism (or libertarianism under a certain light )anyway you look at it.

 

[Nemesis729]

From the way you described it she seems like she just wants to be a part of a "controversial" group, so she can identify herself as a communist without actually having to be one. But hey, if she winds up bringing down the system and turning America into a communist state then I'll take that back.

 

[scully745]

The absence of Communism dosn't mean you aren't one. Notable examples being Lenin or Trotsky, both of these men played a huge role in turning Russia from a Monarchy into a Communist state (there's probably a better word for this but I can't think of one at this point).

Communism simply dosn't work unless the entire population is willing to work to keep the system in place, whether they be forced to by their leaders or whether they choose to. At this point in time no country is ready for that. A Utopian society would likely function along similar lines to Communism, but until you can convince the population to put the best interests of the state above their own, true Communism is impossible.

 

[Kuhkren]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Becuse all countries that have been ruled with a communist regime have been so great and real happy places to live in...

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Though to be fair, North Korea and Cuba aren't exactly the best places to live these days. I hear Vietnam is only place where Communism is working well.

OP should ask his or her friend stuff like, "What is true Marxist Communism?" "How does it differ from a command economy?"

Before I say this, let me just mention I find the communist ideology disagreeable for a number of reasons, and would not elect to live under such a system if I could. But; "true" communist has never really existed, for a number of reasons. North Korea or Cuba, communist? Hardly. Maybe the USSR kind of communist, but again, the USSR was hardly communist.

Personal experience as an American living in Vietnam last year. In the 1990's there was a political upheaval in the communist party where a bunch of market reformists rose to power. They opened the markets to the public and allowed private ownership of all sectors except industrial production, I believe. So the economy is controlled in a few areas.

In terms of health care there is a 20% subsidy on health care costs, which still makes it unaffordable for many people. Civil rights and liberties are not the best. There are several offenses, such as drug trafficking and owning a gun, which can result in death or long prison sentences. The news is full on propaganda. It's pretty funny watching it as a foreigner XD.

There is a lot I didn't learn about, though. Generally punishments can be harsher and fair trials won't happen if the government or somebody wants you. I saw protesting at the American embassy for U.S. pressure during the South East sea incident with China, but never any civilian protests towards the government. It's not a bad situation and the country is definitely improving, especially in terms of quality of life. I would say there is always risk in putting such great power in the hands of so few. Humans are known to have biases and error after all .

Now the idealized version of communism? I personally don't believe human nature has developed to the point where that is feasible. Nice idea though. I'll go with socialists democracies though~.

 

[Firia]

Communism, when you really look at it, sounds amazingly idealistic on paper. I'm sure your friend has told you about all the great things Communism has going for it. And it CAN work! just never as intended.

I don't see any issue with identifying as a communist any more than identifying as a democrat or republican. I take general issue with political identification, but that's totally different.

The ideals of Communism are great. If your friend is down with the ideals, then that's great. That's all it takes to BE something. Identify as it. And if it's the ideals of a communist society that make her so envious of such a world, than I'd call your communist friend an idealist. History just says that it doesn't work very well.

 

[tobi the good boy]

It's dumb. If it doesn't let me rule over the weak and poor, it's not for me!

 

[Galletea]

Easiest way to tell is to wait a few years and see if she still believes in it. A lot of youths pretend to be communist while being quite happy to put their savings away for years, a bit like young anti-theists, most will chill out in a couple of years. I don't suppose it matters as long as she isn't bashing you over the head with redundant doctrines.

 

[Mr F.]

It's true. My friend self identifies her political affiliation with communism and hangs around with a cult-like, semi organized enclave of like minded peers.

I don't actually care / am not worried... This isn't about that - in a sense. This is more of a philosophical question that's kept me a-pondering...

*SNIP*

Uh.

*looks up*

She pretty much means that she is in favour of that system and if she could pick one then that would be the one she would like to live under.

Thread just seems to be a bit pedantic.

Sums up most of my views on the matter.

She sounds like an awesome person though. I guess I would think that, considering the fact that I am a socialist, it does make one biased.

Although I would agree that trying to live as a communist or socialist within a capitalist system does have some rather huge flaws. But working for the glorious revolution (In any way. Peaceful or not) does make you a sociliast/communist. I mean, the iconography that she owns, was that bought or did she create it? If she created it, did she create it with things that she made herself? Being a socialist/communist (Or any of the other more extreme left wing ideologies) does cause some major problems and lead to large amounts of cognitive dissonance.

May I ask where you live? Considering you have to clarify that it does not worry you and you use the term cult (Along with all of its associations) whilst describing the enclave she is part of. Plus do you not see the irony of asking a communist to buy land?

But I am getting a bit too into this.

Matthew94 sorta killed this thread with the first post.

 

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

I came into this thread expecting more Liberty Prime. I was severely disappointed.

Anyway, your friend could be suffering from a severe form of "hipsterism". She should get it checked out.

 

[O maestre]

sounds more like its just a fad, there a lot of kids thinking communism or another ideology is cool in order to feel a sense of elitism over their peers.... like having the only red toy amongst a sea of blue toys. to me the affiliation

i don't know how old she is but to be a real communist is to be a revolutionary all the time, and either with your own life or actively try to change society.

 

[RicoADF]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Becuse all countries that have been ruled with a communist regime have been so great and real happy places to live in...

That's because they have been controlled by tyrants, communism isn't bad, just America tells its citizens it is as they were trying to get their citizens to support their challenging of Russia during the cold war. Communism does not equal tyrant, remember that Communism and Capitalism (social styles) are different to tyrant and democracy (forms of government)

 

[TotalerKrieger]

There were plenty of influencial communist thinkers and supporters before the establishment of the first Marxist/Socialist state in 1917 (or even the short lived Paris Commune of 1871). It's pretty obvious that you CAN identify with any political tendency regardless of the nation you reside in. I don't really see the point of your thread...kinda seems like you have some sort of problem with your friend being a communist and are just trying to find ways to poke holes in her enthusiasm.

I am in favour of promoting Cuban tourism...It is an beautiful country filled with very hard working, determined people (many beautiful women too!). They've stuck to their guns for over 50 years, giving the finger to American political/economic dominance at great national sacrifice. Great place to go for vacation and help out the local economy.

 

[Kuhkren]

Now the idealized version of communism? I personally don't believe human nature has developed to the point where that is feasible. Nice idea though. I'll go with socialists democracies though~.

Human nature is what it is conditioned to be. It is not set in stone.

I would say it is a mix of culture and biology, in my opinion.

 

[mrdude2010]

When people identify themselves as "I'm x" they usually mean that's the opinion or theory they most agree with or subscribe to. "I'm a communist" doesn't necessarily mean living in a commune, it means you believe that that would be the best political system.

 

[Doom972]

If she actually thinks that communism is the way to go, that makes her a supporter of communism - a communist. I understand your dilemma, as one doesn't seem like much of a supporter of communism when he lives under a capitalist regime and seems pretty comfortable in it.
I think that many of those modern communists don't realize the sacrifices the individual must make when living under a communist regime, and just support it as their way of rebellion or venting frustration.