Poll: Necromorphs vs Flood

[inFAMOUSCowZ]

I love dead space and all, but the flood just seem more of a threat. Just one little thing can infect people, and start a chain reaction.

 

[HK_01]

You misunderstand what I am saying. Flood have a survival instinct. The fact that they are willing to change to win alone says that. Necromorphs don't care if they die. That gives them an advantage. Necromorphs have nothing to lose and that is how they fight. That is far more dangerous. I am not debating who can do what and where. What I am saying you give me the choice of fighting a planet of Flood or a planet of Necromorphs I'll take the Flood any day. Sure I am gonna most likely gonna lose but at least I would have a sporting chance. On the Necro planet it is just a matter time til I run out of resources. My chances of survival are nil. The only thing I can do is back myself into a corner and hold out as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure having no survival instinct is not an advantage. Why would it be? It just means that you'll thoughtlessly throw your life away (by walking straight through enemy fire, for example) while something with a survival instinct will try to fight in such a way that it kills the enemy yet survives itself. Imagine if soldiers didn't care if their limbs get blown off, they wouldn't be nearly as careful and therefore more prone to being killed by the enemy instead of the other way around.

About the Tyranids: Wouldn't they be infected by the Flood? And wouldn't these huge swarms of them make it really easy for the Flood to infect millions in minutes?

 

[EightGaugeHippo]

The flood actually made a nonscary game, fairly scary (at the time).
But necromorphs are tring too hard and just make it bland.

??? How so?

Just so you know, im talking about in Halo CE, back when the flood where new.

Well with the flood, you can see the pain and horror in the faces of its victims, this to me was alot more frightening. Its almost brutal to imagen the pain the victims of the flood go through, as they are usually still alive when they are transformed while their memories are one by one erased, until all that remains is a mangled corpse, motorisation and hunger.

With necromorphs, they all look so angry and almost always too deformed for me to see any form of suffering. Not only that, but the transformation, as far as I know happens exclusivly after the subject has died. No suffering other than the original death. Also, their overall mangled, big teethed, silent hill esque look is kinda stale.

Having something that looks so human, but that is as far away from human as posible, to me is a much more harrowing enemy.

[Edit]
Im not too sure of the back story of the necromorphes.
But you have to erase every peice of sentient life from existence to even attempt to kill off the flood. That kind of shows just how dangerous they are.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Alright, let's think about this:

Flood - controlled by singular hive consciousness, rampant expansion, tissue claimed but powered by own bodily processes, evolutionary forms dependent on host, directed by singular purpose, vulnerable to ballistic and conventional weaponry, spread by spore organisms.

Necromorphs - controlled by collective hive consciousness, rampant expansion, tissue code overwritten and largely independent of bodily processes (parasitic development), evolutionary forms independent of host (rendering models aside, no one human body has a predisposition for bile regurgitation or explosive tumors), undirected independent action - instinctive, resistant to standard ballistic shock and electrical impulse - but vulnerable to total nerve shock (fire, pressure) and immobilization, spread virally by contact - hypothetically able to form memetically if host has submitted its body to ritual and the psychic wave rewrites their code to become susceptible to Necro influence.

Tyranids - Controlled by singular intelligence, though formative based on immediate vicinity of broodmates - even psychic pack leaders theoretically perform worse independently. (Lictors exempt), procreation limited to hive ships and spawn pools, meaning raw material must be stored or extracted on site, evolutionary forms written based on encountered threat, though some gene-stock affects designation in purpose (Ork biovores, SM Tyrant Guard, human Genestealers, etc). Instinctive action unless directed by Tyrant or Zoanthrope, meaning vulnerabilities without proper command structure (like Slivers, the more, the horrifyingly merrier). Tyranid spores can affect organisms as mutagens, but transforming a population is not a material purpose of Nid invasion - suppertime is. Greatly resistant to physical and some psychic shock, bred for war.

Geth - Governed by collective consciousness, a democracy of collaborative programs. Expansion protocols largely unknown, but programs able to write and inhabit any suitable vessel and manufacturing platforms seem easy enough to establish - with purpose, Geth can self-replicate indefinitely, so long as materials are available - they only need physical host machinery to inhabit. No real evolutionary measures taken, simply improved host bodies given on feedback data - adaptation not permanent, merely driven to specific finite objectives. Resistant to physical shock, taken out of Mass Effect universe, proven hardy against most weaponry - suspect critical weakness versus EM attacks. Synthetic life form gaining complexity through local presence of its peers. Not as hardy as its listed biological counterparts, but parallel in method.

SO!

In this test of wills, the Tyranids are the superior war force, as the Flood would attempt to control the 'Nid bodies, encounter the psychic presence of the Fleet Minders, and either turn as many grunt units as it could against a foe ever adapting to the Gravemind's own methods, or be gradually devoured as its Flood bodies would be processed on gained ground to make more troops for Nids. In a war of double turnarounds, the better-prepared force emerges victorious. The necromorphs would not fare well against Nids, save for those who are left unattended by their Psychic shepherds, and any tissue found to be converted would be claimed by the gastric pits. All would be consumed. The Geth may come out the best in this, as there is precious little the Tyranids may take from them (same for other 2 counterparts), though if they put up a fight rather than flee, they would be dealing with a form of weaponry that would bypass kinetic barriers and eat away at them. Plus, what happens when a Zoanthrope psy-lances its way into a Geth collective? Do they talk? Or overload and expire?

Now, Nids aside, the Flood is at a disadvantage against the Necros, because for the two to compete, there would have to be a neutral party (soft squishy humans) to exploit. As such, any deaths incurred in the take-over go to Necros, while the Flood needs living hosts. Undead Flood bodies may give the Marker spawn unforseen advantages, and the psychic pressure from both sides may cause breakdown in Flood living tissue (confusion/rebellion even?)

And speaking of the Marker, it is entirely possible that the Gravemind present on this hypothetical world would make the same mistake Humans keep making and hear its murmurs through its 'children.' The parasite would then attempt to bring it closer for examination, listening to its promises, and any creatures it held in any sort of esteem or even its own fellows would tell the Gravemind that Convergence is a really, REALLY neat idea. So, it would butcher its own flock to make more Marker kids, likely take its own... life? and generate critical mass to create a huge-o DEATHSPLOSION! Altman be praised.

That's an uh...interesting way of looking at it, but what the hell is Geth doing there? They're not space zombies, and even if they were they wouldn't stand a chance against the others.

Flood - Individual units suck, huge numbers, good for spreading over a large area but may be somewhat contained due to the general suckery of their 'soldiers.' Extensive space travelling capabilities in later stages. Can infect and spread quite easily.
In short at early stages they are quite vulnerable if the enemy is prepared, later on they are very difficult to curb stomp due to EPIC numbers.

Necromorphs - Individual units are quite intelligent and powerful as well as hard to kill, considerable threat to standard military forces. Can only spread via infectors which are quite fragile and only effective when all resistance in the area has been destroyed, therefore inital necromorph forms need to be good enough to kill a large group of viable hosts so they can be infected to augment the necromorph army.
This also doesn't include the Marker.
In short the necromorphs are overall the best combatants but cannot spread as easily.

Tyranids - The only way to kill these guys is with huge numbers and a ridiculous amount of firepower.

Anyway necromorphs would be MUCH better in actual combat, but the Flood is all over the damn place, hence the name.
So necromorphs are like a monumental threat to a planet, the Flood is a slightly lesser threat to an entire galaxy.
And Tyranids would kill them all.

 

[Protocol95]

Did halo reach have any flood in it? I haven't played it yet but I'd really like to know.

None at all.

OT: The flood. They crashed one small human cruiser into the heart of the covenant and took the majority of it over within hours. That's enough evidence for me.

 

[KenzS]

Necromorphs convert extremely fast. Flood takes a bit. but Flood are far deadlier, smarter, and faster. So flood wins. Think about it. If Isaac and Spartan 117 switched jobs who would have it easier?

Haha good point, I'm pretty sure Masterchief wouldn't have much trouble. He could probably go at it barehanded, beat the necro's to death with their own limbs.

 

[Theron Julius]

Necromorphs aren't as efficient as Flood. Necromorphs have to breed infectors very specifically. Flood, however, have a life cycle that always creates more infectors. An infector will infect a host, who becomes a combat form. After a while the combat form will develop into a carrier form which will explode, releasing more infection forms. Thus a flood infection is not stoppable unless all of it is destroyed. Not only that, but the Flood doesn't even require infection forms. In heavily infested areas flood biomass produces spores which can also infect hosts.

Also Flood can do all of the following, while Necromorphs cannot:

1. pilot vehicles
2. pilot ships
3. wield weapons
4. develop intellectually (I.E. form proto-graveminds and later full graveminds)
5. create creatures without the need of corpses
6. speak (although usually as a proxy for the above mentioned intelligence)
7. rhyme (Seriously, every line spoken by the gravemind in Halo 2 is a rhyme)
8. reason (as can be seen in the brief section in Halo 3 were the flood act as allies)

sidenote: Got a funny reCaptcha. "Rickels practice". Anyone else think that sounds funny?

 

[Outcast107]

I will say this..

To beat nerco it takes one miner..

To beat Flood it takes a Super soldier, UNCS marines and ODST, and The Covenante and really, that almost didn't stop the flood. As well as their not dead yet, as they could still be alive on different halo rings.

 

[Rusty Bucket]

Neither. Tyranids would devour them both.

The Tyrannid Hive fleet(the whole thing, not the branches) is simply too large to be reasonable. It's larger than the whole Milky Way galaxy; that's just too much. Also they would realistically be terrible at war. They're incredibly slow when traveling in space, and have limited offensive potential therein. Simply bombard then from far away while pulling back as necessary. They're only ever a threat when they're already there, and you can see them coming literally decades beforehand. Just not practical.

Bombarding won't do anything to them, at all. You'd have to be backing away from them literally forever. The only way you could possibly stop them is if you utterly destroyed every single planet that was vaguely in their path so they can't harvest the biomass from it. That's assuming they're as slow as you say they are, which they aren't.

 

[squid5580]

You misunderstand what I am saying. Flood have a survival instinct. The fact that they are willing to change to win alone says that. Necromorphs don't care if they die. That gives them an advantage. Necromorphs have nothing to lose and that is how they fight. That is far more dangerous. I am not debating who can do what and where. What I am saying you give me the choice of fighting a planet of Flood or a planet of Necromorphs I'll take the Flood any day. Sure I am gonna most likely gonna lose but at least I would have a sporting chance. On the Necro planet it is just a matter time til I run out of resources. My chances of survival are nil. The only thing I can do is back myself into a corner and hold out as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure having no survival instinct is not an advantage. Why would it be? It just means that you'll thoughtlessly throw your life away (by walking straight through enemy fire, for example) while something with a survival instinct will try to fight in such a way that it kills the enemy yet survives itself. Imagine if soldiers didn't care if their limbs get blown off, they wouldn't be nearly as careful and therefore more prone to being killed by the enemy instead of the other way around.

About the Tyranids: Wouldn't they be infected by the Flood? And wouldn't these huge swarms of them make it really easy for the Flood to infect millions in minutes?

Exactly the point. If something is willing to sacrifice itself to make you burn up your resources without care how do you fight against something like that? Sooner or later you are going to run out of resources. While it overwhelms you with sheer numbers. Hell half the necromorphs are suicide bombers. They just whittle you down bit by bit until your heathpacks and ammo are gone.

 

[Outcast107]

You misunderstand what I am saying. Flood have a survival instinct. The fact that they are willing to change to win alone says that. Necromorphs don't care if they die. That gives them an advantage. Necromorphs have nothing to lose and that is how they fight. That is far more dangerous. I am not debating who can do what and where. What I am saying you give me the choice of fighting a planet of Flood or a planet of Necromorphs I'll take the Flood any day. Sure I am gonna most likely gonna lose but at least I would have a sporting chance. On the Necro planet it is just a matter time til I run out of resources. My chances of survival are nil. The only thing I can do is back myself into a corner and hold out as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure having no survival instinct is not an advantage. Why would it be? It just means that you'll thoughtlessly throw your life away (by walking straight through enemy fire, for example) while something with a survival instinct will try to fight in such a way that it kills the enemy yet survives itself. Imagine if soldiers didn't care if their limbs get blown off, they wouldn't be nearly as careful and therefore more prone to being killed by the enemy instead of the other way around.

About the Tyranids: Wouldn't they be infected by the Flood? And wouldn't these huge swarms of them make it really easy for the Flood to infect millions in minutes?

Exactly the point. If something is willing to sacrifice itself to make you burn up your resources without care how do you fight against something like that? Sooner or later you are going to run out of resources. While it overwhelms you with sheer numbers. Hell half the necromorphs are suicide bombers. They just whittle you down bit by bit until your heathpacks and ammo are gone.

You do know that the flood have just as much and possible more then the nerco right? They have roughly the same number, just the flood can actually you know...regenerate itself with a infection form. While the nerco can't and if it lose a limb, its useless. Flood don't need guns, they have super strength and canjump far. What can the nerco do? just jump out of vents and scare you until you use a mining tool to cut it to pieces.

I'm sorry bro, but I rather face nercos instead of flood. Necros will just kill you or trasnform you into one of them. While the flood will kill you or keep you alive to be use to gain knowledge of your entire race. Every located world, how to drive a ship, how to operate anything. Flood are probably the most dangerous parasite ever created.

 

[paragon1]

Necromorphs eat dead bodies. Nids eat biomass. Flood eat everything.

sorry, whats a "nid"?

Short for Tyranid. It's a Warhammer 40k race. A lot of people brought them into the discussion on the first page. I'm surprised you didn't notice them before you got to my post.

 

[paragon1]

You misunderstand what I am saying. Flood have a survival instinct. The fact that they are willing to change to win alone says that. Necromorphs don't care if they die. That gives them an advantage. Necromorphs have nothing to lose and that is how they fight. That is far more dangerous. I am not debating who can do what and where. What I am saying you give me the choice of fighting a planet of Flood or a planet of Necromorphs I'll take the Flood any day. Sure I am gonna most likely gonna lose but at least I would have a sporting chance. On the Necro planet it is just a matter time til I run out of resources. My chances of survival are nil. The only thing I can do is back myself into a corner and hold out as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure having no survival instinct is not an advantage. Why would it be? It just means that you'll thoughtlessly throw your life away (by walking straight through enemy fire, for example) while something with a survival instinct will try to fight in such a way that it kills the enemy yet survives itself. Imagine if soldiers didn't care if their limbs get blown off, they wouldn't be nearly as careful and therefore more prone to being killed by the enemy instead of the other way around.

About the Tyranids: Wouldn't they be infected by the Flood? And wouldn't these huge swarms of them make it really easy for the Flood to infect millions in minutes?

Exactly the point. If something is willing to sacrifice itself to make you burn up your resources without care how do you fight against something like that? Sooner or later you are going to run out of resources. While it overwhelms you with sheer numbers. Hell half the necromorphs are suicide bombers. They just whittle you down bit by bit until your heathpacks and ammo are gone.

Yeah, see, the Flood can do all of that if they want to. There's a reason they're called that after all. Plus, they can figure out how to use rocket launchers. The necromorphs lost to a techie with some mining tools. The Flood were barely stopped by a super soldier with super weapons and overloading spaceship drives at his disposal.

 

[HK_01]

You misunderstand what I am saying. Flood have a survival instinct. The fact that they are willing to change to win alone says that. Necromorphs don't care if they die. That gives them an advantage. Necromorphs have nothing to lose and that is how they fight. That is far more dangerous. I am not debating who can do what and where. What I am saying you give me the choice of fighting a planet of Flood or a planet of Necromorphs I'll take the Flood any day. Sure I am gonna most likely gonna lose but at least I would have a sporting chance. On the Necro planet it is just a matter time til I run out of resources. My chances of survival are nil. The only thing I can do is back myself into a corner and hold out as long as I can.

I'm pretty sure having no survival instinct is not an advantage. Why would it be? It just means that you'll thoughtlessly throw your life away (by walking straight through enemy fire, for example) while something with a survival instinct will try to fight in such a way that it kills the enemy yet survives itself. Imagine if soldiers didn't care if their limbs get blown off, they wouldn't be nearly as careful and therefore more prone to being killed by the enemy instead of the other way around.

About the Tyranids: Wouldn't they be infected by the Flood? And wouldn't these huge swarms of them make it really easy for the Flood to infect millions in minutes?

Exactly the point. If something is willing to sacrifice itself to make you burn up your resources without care how do you fight against something like that? Sooner or later you are going to run out of resources. While it overwhelms you with sheer numbers. Hell half the necromorphs are suicide bombers. They just whittle you down bit by bit until your heathpacks and ammo are gone.

But see, that only works when the beings without survival instinct start off with vastly greater resources. If we start evenly, the guys who just mindlessly burn through their resources/manpower are going to lose to those who have a strategy and use their resources to the maximum effect.

 

[GodofCider]

Bombarding won't do anything to them, at all. You'd have to be backing away from them literally forever. The only way you could possibly stop them is if you utterly destroyed every single planet that was vaguely in their path so they can't harvest the biomass from it. That's assuming they're as slow as you say they are, which they aren't.

Which is why any species that engages in space battle with them loses right? Ya....no.

It's already been clearly stated that all tyrannid travel at sub light speed; even slower if you remove their navigational 'narwhal'. They can not do warp jumps. Even the Tau whom are only capable of small hops in the warp would easily be able to outdistance 'any' tyrannid fleet; by at the very least years.(Assuming they were too stupid to simply see them with telescopes when they were decades out.)

As it stands the shadow of the warp extends years ahead of any fleet anyways; meaning the 'loss' of Craftworld Iyanden is ridiculous.(It couldn't escape fast enough?) Rubbish, everyone knows the Eldar are capable of moving their entire craftworlds through the webway.

Obviously Warhammer 40k plot reasoning is sub par, but trying to fake a species which would do horrible in a space scenario, as being a near unstoppable menace, is preposterous.

Ironically if they just gave them warp travel potential then it would resolve the whole issue. At least then they would be able to magically appear on their preys doorstep. But then they actually would be near unstoppable; and the problem goes round.

 

[Rusty Bucket]

Bombarding won't do anything to them, at all. You'd have to be backing away from them literally forever. The only way you could possibly stop them is if you utterly destroyed every single planet that was vaguely in their path so they can't harvest the biomass from it. That's assuming they're as slow as you say they are, which they aren't.

Which is why any species that engages in space battle with them loses right? Ya....no.

It's already been clearly stated that all tyrannid travel at sub light speed; even slower if you remove their navigational 'narwhal'. They can not do warp jumps. Even the Tau whom are only capable of small hops in the warp would easily be able to outdistance 'any' tyrannid fleet; by at the very least years.(Assuming they were too stupid to simply see them with telescopes when they were decades out.)

As it stands the shadow of the warp extends years ahead of any fleet anyways; meaning the 'loss' of Craftworld Iyanden is ridiculous.(It couldn't escape fast enough?) Rubbish, everyone knows the Eldar are capable of moving their entire craftworlds through the webway.

Obviously Warhammer 40k plot reasoning is sub par, but trying to fake a species which would do horrible in a space scenario, as being a near unstoppable menace, is preposterous.

Ironically if they just gave them warp travel potential then it would resolve the whole issue. At least then they would be able to magically appear on their preys doorstep. But then they actually would be near unstoppable; and the problem goes round.

Alright, so they're slow, you can outrun them. What then? You'll be running literally forever. You cannot stop them unless you strip all planets of all life or pull a Deus ex machina out of your arse.

 

[Flac00]

Necromorphs eat dead bodies. Nids eat biomass. Flood eat everything.

sorry, whats a "nid"?

Short for Tyranid. It's a Warhammer 40k race. A lot of people brought them into the discussion on the first page. I'm surprised you didn't notice them before you got to my post.

nope, i'm just too lazy

 

[GodofCider]

Alright, so they're slow, you can outrun them. What then? You'll be running literally forever. You cannot stop them unless you strip all planets of all life or pull a Deus ex machina out of your arse.

Nonsense, you can just bombard them from afar. That is a the perk of having complete maneuverability dominance upon your foe after all.

If we're going to stick with classical technology, then simply gravitational sling shot asteroids into the linear flowing hive. It'll hit before they know what happens and the kinetic energy will tear a whole straight through multiple ships.

Or, better yet, use long range plasma based weaponry. Snag a star or two and 'shoot' plasma jets at then. Mmm...roast tyrannid.

 

[Outcast107]

Alright, so they're slow, you can outrun them. What then? You'll be running literally forever. You cannot stop them unless you strip all planets of all life or pull a Deus ex machina out of your arse.

Nonsense, you can just bombard them from afar. That is a the perk of having complete maneuverability dominance upon your foe after all.

If we're going to stick with classical technology, then simply gravitational sling shot asteroids into the linear flowing hive. It'll hit before they know what happens and the kinetic energy will tear a whole straight through multiple ships.

Or, better yet, use long range plasma based weaponry. Snag a star or two and 'shoot' plasma jets at then. Mmm...roast tyrannid.

Then the Tyranids will adapt and get stronger. Possible making their ship faster, stronger ship armor perhaps. Depending on if the bombard will even affect them as they might just thinki its a tickle to them.

 

[Rusty Bucket]

Alright, so they're slow, you can outrun them. What then? You'll be running literally forever. You cannot stop them unless you strip all planets of all life or pull a Deus ex machina out of your arse.

Nonsense, you can just bombard them from afar. That is a the perk of having complete maneuverability dominance upon your foe after all.

If we're going to stick with classical technology, then simply gravitational sling shot asteroids into the linear flowing hive. It'll hit before they know what happens and the kinetic energy will tear a whole straight through multiple ships.

Or, better yet, use long range plasma based weaponry. Snag a star or two and 'shoot' plasma jets at then. Mmm...roast tyrannid.

You can't keep that up forever though, whereas the Tyranids can. Any planet they come across will be stripped bare, all the life sucked from it to create more Tyranids. Like I said, to stand any reasonable chance you'd need to pre-emptively destroy planets.

Also, it's worth noting just how adaptable Tyranids are. They can, and will, rewrite genetic code on the fly to better combat your tactics. The bombardment strategy will become less and less effective over time, while the hive fleet continues to grow with every planet it touches.