Poll: Neon Genesis Evangelion: Masterpiece or a Mess?

Zak757

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I recently watched the most controversial and polarizing anime of all time out of curiosity. I went in expecting to be on the side of everyone mocking it's pretentious symbolism and making jokes about how much of a pussy Shinji is, but it turns out that I found Evangelion to be a masterpiece. Not in the sense that it's flawless, because it did have many flaws when analyzed as a conventional work of fiction. It has some tonal issues in the first half, often clueless use of Christian symbolism, plot elements that don't make much sense, and a very noticeable lack of budget.

What I found beautiful about Evangelion was that it was a very human, honest, up-front and deceptively optimistic conversation with its target audience. The entire cast is full of believably characterized and heavily flawed human beings, each with their own troubles and ways of dealing with them, so anyone watching who feels like they are alone can empathize with someone who is like them. At the center of it all is Shinji Ikari who is heavily representative of your common anti-social introvert who would watch an anime about young boys fighting evil as a form of escapism. While I have improved over time, I deeply understood and related to just about every aspect of his character, since I acted like and thought like Shinji himself for a period of time. Evangelion dives deep into his psyche to make sure he, and everyone like him, understands that the pain of being human can not be escaped by running away from reality and choosing to view the reality in a way that validates his thought processes, rather than trying to understand it from a more optimistic and open minded angle. With more self-understanding and changed view of the world, he chooses that his life is worth living. Hence... "congratulations!"

I hear a lot of people say that Evangelion "hates otaku" and I'd say that's almost the opposite of the truth. I'd say it's one of the most caring works of fiction out their I've seen, because it aspires to understand it's audience and give them a reason to live in the most truthful way possible. I've also heard the word "deep" used mockingly to make fun of its supposed pretention, and I think all these claims of pretention and depth come from aspects of the anime that don't really matter to what it is trying to accomplish. Could you spend days analyzing the story for symbolism, conspiracy, and other such nonsense to find nothing of value? Yes, but the plot really only exists to serve as a vehicle that lets Eva analyze its characters because exploring human beings is everything this show is about, and it considers it's goals so important that anything less of than the end of the world isn't worthy of that goal.

So yeah, I liked Evangelion a lot. What did you think of it?

EDIT: what the fuck is with the poll? Why won't it display the whole message? Why won't it change when I edit it?
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Zak757 said:
EDIT: what the fuck is with the poll? Why won't it display the whole message? Why won't it change when I edit it?
Poll doesn't like apostrophes sometimes. Change "it's" to "it is."

As far as the question goes, it's a goddamn fucking mess. I hated Evangelion when I watched it, and I didn't just hate it because it was bad but because there was such a possibility for it to be GREAT that it completely squandered. Evangelion is probably one of the anime I hate most even though there are worse shows out there.

And no, I won't see the movies and I don't care what they fix.
 

Zhukov

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I thought it was a mess.

Sure, Shinji actually acts realistically for someone like him in a situation like that. Doesn't make it any less irritating or boring to watch him do so.

Plus, y'know, that ending. That's about as much of a mess as I can imagine.
 

TakerFoxx

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It's both.

Thing about Evangelion is that it was literally the series creator dumping his mental and emotional breakdown right onto the show he was making at the time, and from what I've read, the studio was banking on it failing in a sort of "Springtime for Hitler" sort of deal, so they let him get away with it. And anime fans who tuned in did so expecting a fun robots vs. aliens sort of show but were both horrified and yet fascinated by the sick mindscrew they got instead. These days, such things are fairly commonplace, but back then seeing something that twisted in a genre associated with fun action was genuinely new, leading it to become the runaway hit it is today and influencing numerous shows to come.

So, it's a masterpiece because it's a mess.
 

[Kira Must Die]

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I'm a big EVA fan. The only thing I didn't like was the third Rebuild film.

No matter what you think of it, though, I still feel like it's an anime worth watching, just to see where you . Whether you end up liking it or not, it does have an important place in the anime industry and is one of the most influential and popular anime to come out of the 90s.

Also, Evangelion is NOT the most pretentious anime I've seen *COUGH*Penguindrum*COUGH*
 

Casual Shinji

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It's a brilliant mess, much like the human psyche.

The characters are deemed crazy by most people who watch the show, but only because we get to know them so well. Deep down we're all a mess of emotions and anxiety, and NGE exposes the characters down to their nitty gritty core to show just that.

It's one of the prime examples of 'can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs', as it sacrifices plot and some might say a satisfying ending to present us with some of the most fleshed out characters out there. Near the end the characters literally kick the plot to the curb and take over. Where they're able to sustain themselves in a vacuum away from the safe confines of their sci-fi setting. This is a culmination of the duality that the show presents us with; complete independence/self reliance vs. companionship/co-dependency. The fear of being alone versus the fear of being with others.

And ofcourse there's also giant cyborg gods bustin' skulls to classical music.
 

Vegosiux

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How about a messterpiece?


Honestly, I can't stand Shinji, he's like my least favorite fictional character ever, because he can't even get me to hate him. Series as a whole, though, I rather liked.

Oh, and by the way...

Kaji was totally killed by his watermelons. I will never change my opinion on that.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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It's the grandmother of all mixed bags, it's definitely not a masterpiece and yes, it's a total goddamn mess. There are parts in it that are incredibly atmospheric, intriguing and often terrifyingly disturbing. But they are far overwhelmed by the tonal inconsistency, unlikable characters, mysteries that seem to go nowhere, the drastic drop of animation quality towards the end and some really uncomfortably creepy stuff (I can't get over the fact that Rei and Asuka are 14, yet the fanservice is constant... yechhh). I don't really buy into that whole "deconstruction" and "subversion" stuff. Sure, if that was the point, go ahead, but that doesn't mean you also have to stuff your head up your ass with all the cryptic religious mumbo-jumbo and imagery and make your main character a completely spineless, irredeemable wimp.

It's one of the most divisive pieces of fiction I know. I'll recommend it to people just so they can form their own opinion of it.
 

Julius Terrell

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I think it an absolute masterpiece because it's a show about me for me. It's easy for me to put myself in Shinji's shoes, because part of his reality is my reality.

There aren't too many shows that can pull this off without fucking up in some way. I just only wish that the ending had been a tad bit clearer. Then again it allows much speculation. This show is on my top reasons why I will forever love Japanese anime.
 

Nouw

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It's probably my first 'serious' anime so it'll always hold a special place in my heart. Suffice to say, I really enjoyed watching it. I'm looking forward to 4.0 as well but only for Shiro Sagisu's soundtrack.
 

DarkhoIlow

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I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard from a lot of people that "The End of Evangelion" ova or movie is pretty darn good and a must to watch after finishing the anime.

I have plans to watch it, but it way back in my backlog of anime.
 
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Those who say that it's both are probably the most correct. It's a mess, but it's a masterpiece as well, partly in spite of it being a mess, and partly because of it. There certainly hasn't been anything like it since, although that hasn't stopped people from trying.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Absolute masterpiece in every way.
Maybe the problem with the haters is they where not around Shinji's age when they watched it, when it came out.
Plus it's really deep, sooooo many layers of philosophy and psychology to think about!!!
 

Scarim Coral

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I am bias to say it's a mess. Seriosuly it took a remake to redo it all over again to be better!
 
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Scarim Coral said:
it took a remake to redo it all over again to be better!
Eh, the remakes are a hit and miss affair.

The first one is essentially The Series HD. It's not bad, but it's not great. The CGI adds something neat to the Ramiel battle, but other than that, it's not a marked step up from the original, and the scenes omitted from the show could arguably be considered a major step down.

The second movie is probably the best of the three so far. Shinji seems to reach a sort of equilibrium for the first time ever, and the non-filler battles deviate from the series originals in interesting ways. The movie series as a whole deviates from the series original in interesting way, and it would be all well and good if it weren't for...

The third movie absolutely, quickly, and efficiently defecates all over the goodwill generated by the first two films. It's especially saddening to see this Shinji (and, while we're at it, all the other characters as well) go from an interesting take on the character to a complete non-character within an hour.

...then again, that could just be my wounded Shinji/Rei OTP heart whinging about it. And once I remove my brain from the equation, I find I enjoy the movie well enough. Neat battles, especially with the Wunder or whatever that ship was called, and Toji's sister is a sufficiently cute design.

But then I remember that I enjoyed End of Eva without having to dumb myself down, and I feel despondent rage all over again. Oh well. I suppose it's asking too much for them to revolutionize the anime world two times over.
 

Casual Shinji

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Kenjitsuka said:
Maybe the problem with the haters is they where not around Shinji's age when they watched it, when it came out.
I wasn't around Shinji's age when I first watched it and I still loved it... after the initial shock wore off.
Scarim Coral said:
Seriosuly it took a remake to redo it all over again to be better!
Taking all the meat and potatoes with it.
 

NLS

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Where's my poll option for "Messy Masterpiece" or "A Masterpiece of a Mess"?
 

BanicRhys

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Evangelion is the single greatest work of art that has existed and will ever exist.

Nothing I could say would do this masterpiece justice.

I'm not even exaggerating.
 

Rabbitboy

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It's alright. I didn't watch the original series but I did read the manga which I liked but I didn't see what the big deal was about. I also watched the first movie last week and thought it could be improved with more giant robot vs giant monster battles.
 
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Rabbitboy said:
I did read the manga which I liked but I didn't see what the big deal was about.
The manga is a very different animal from the anime. It's much more sympathetic towards Shinji; he's more proactive in the manga, despite following essentially the same series of events. The ending is also very different, both compared to the anime and the End of Eva movie. It's much more positive and... anime-ish, I guess?

If you liked the manga, you'd probably enjoy at least seeing what went differently in the anime.