Poll: Neon Genesis Evangelion: Masterpiece or a Mess?

[zen5887]

When I was a kid I saw promotional material for NG:E and was super excited at watching kids in giant robots fight monsters but when I watched an episode I saw the bloody, bandaged face of an EVA staring at me for a whole scene and it legitimately gave me the worst nightmares I can remember. Over the years I watched a handful of episodes and worked out the basic plot from friends. I found out who died and who had sex and all the stuff pre-teen boys were interetested in. It wasn't until last year that I actually sat down and watched the damn show. Holy shit. I had no idea what I was in for.

It definitely isn't perfect. Like others said, it's messy and some parts don't work as well as others and the religious symbolism is pretty ham fisted. But as a whole, it is just so god damn perfect I don't even know how to put it into words. It's not a Mozart or a Chopin, it's dissonant and out of time yet still manages to be enjoyable. I'm not that familiar with it's context (budget issues? Network pressure? Why the amazing "congratulations" ending was retconned? I'm not sure) but presented as I watched it I can say without hesitation it is one of the best fucking pieces of media I've ever seen.

Basically,

Evangelion is the single greatest work of art that has existed and will ever exist.

Nothing I could say would do this masterpiece justice.

I'm not even exaggerating.

This.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard from a lot of people that "The End of Evangelion" ova or movie is pretty darn good and a must to watch after finishing the anime.

I have plans to watch it, but it way back in my backlog of anime.

Ho ho ho ho, just wait! End of Evangelion isn't very good in my opinion, per se (much like the series), but it's completely unlike anything you'll ever see, and will definitely stay in your mind for years to come. There's stuff in it that makes the final movement of Akira seem calm, collected and derivative in comparison. And if you've seen Akira, you know that's quite a thing to say.

 

[Rabbitboy]

The manga is a very different animal from the anime. It's much more sympathetic towards Shinji; he's more proactive in the manga, despite following essentially the same series of events.

Oh? can you give me a few examples of what is different and how Shinji is more proactive. because I'm a bit curios but not enough to watch the series.

 

[Michael Tabbut]

I have a sort of love-hate relationship with Neon Genesis Evangelion, My parents rented a movie from a local rental place when I was either 8 or 9 to watch. They thought it was Star Wars, but inside the case was End of Evangelion. Needless to say after watching the film I was kind of a mess. A few years later I saw the show on Adult Swim when they still showed anime during the week and was completely lost (I ended up watching the last two episodes). I pretty much dismissed the show as garbage for quite a while.

It wasn't until my senior year in high school when I revisited the series when I actually began to like it. Like others before me I agree it's a fucking mess but it sort of had an effect on me at a younger age and cemented my love for anime.

 

[chikusho]

Let's put it like this.. The first episode aired 19 years ago, and it's still relevant, it's still discussed, and it's still praised. Whether or not you appreciate what it did or what it is, it's an important part of culture today, and has undoubtedly been a great influence on animation since its inception.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard from a lot of people that "The End of Evangelion" ova or movie is pretty darn good and a must to watch after finishing the anime.

I have plans to watch it, but it way back in my backlog of anime.

Ho ho ho ho, just wait! End of Evangelion isn't very good in my opinion, per se (much like the series), but it's completely unlike anything you'll ever see, and will definitely stay in your mind for years to come. There's stuff in it that makes the final movement of Akira seem calm, collected and derivative in comparison. And if you've seen Akira, you know that's quite a thing to say.

Yeah I have seen Akira and the ending was a mindfuck. So I assume it's something similar then?

PS: Which Evangelion should I watch? Because there are different versions (1.0, 1.11 etc), what is up with those ?

 

[Lieju]

It's both.

Thing about Evangelion is that it was literally the series creator dumping his mental and emotional breakdown right onto the show he was making at the time, and from what I've read, the studio was banking on it failing in a sort of "Springtime for Hitler" sort of deal, so they let him get away with it. And anime fans who tuned in did so expecting a fun robots vs. aliens sort of show but were both horrified and yet fascinated by the sick mindscrew they got instead. These days, such things are fairly commonplace, but back then seeing something that twisted in a genre associated with fun action was genuinely new, leading it to become the runaway hit it is today and influencing numerous shows to come.

So, it's a masterpiece because it's a mess.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts on it.

I finished watching the original anime way back and then went

"..."

"I think I can respect it?"

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Oh? can you give me a few examples of what is different and how Shinji is more proactive. because I'm a bit curios but not enough to watch the series.

Well, the changes are often subtle - an expression difference here, a dialogue difference there, etc. - but some of the more prominent differences include (without giving too much away)

Spoiler

1.) In the anime, Shinji never takes Rei out to the gardens. He also doesn't make tea for/with her early in the story. The Shinji/Rei angle is entirely Sadamoto's doing. In the anime, he's more romantically linked to Asuka.

2.) Kaji's backstory is never elaborated upon in the anime.

3.) Kaworu only exists for one episode (as opposed to several story arcs in the manga), and Shinji and he develop a much closer relationship as opposed to the antagonistic one in the manga.

4.) In the anime, Shinji never stabs his father in that weird limbo setting. He also doesn't try to punch him in his office. He's much more passive-aggressive.

5.) There are seventeen Angels in the anime (as opposed to twelve in the manga), including several that provide insight into various characters, Shinji included.

6.) The anime ends very differently.

There are other notable differences, but it's best to find those out for yourself.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

It's both.

The persentation, the designs, and the environments are brilliant. Originally the story had a lot of depth and it was genuinely mysterious and interesting to follow. We also shouldn't forget that this anime really inspired a whole lot of other series. In that way it's a masterpiece.

But the way the characters can't get out of their self-pitying (especially Shinji) and the way they needlessly keep making things more complicated for the sake of dragging it out in the last few films also makes it a goddamn mess. Heck, even the originals were a mess with the cuts on funding and the confusing and non-satisfying endings.

I would compare the way Evangelion's story suffers to the way Lost when down the drain: for the first few seasons everyone was interesting in what was happening on the island. But later on most people wanted to choke the next person in the series who mentioned the "Others" or "Guardian" or whatever.

I got the same feels when they talk about dogma and Lillith and whatever in Evangelion now.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

I'm not that familiar with it's context (budget issues? Network pressure? Why the amazing "congratulations" ending was retconned? I'm not sure)

1.) Budget issues - In general, Gainax didn't know how much money it had to work with from week to week. It started out with a modest budget, and then after it started picking up steam, more sponsors wanted in. But then some of the middle episodes were so graphically and disturbingly violent and introspective that a bunch of sponsors pulled out, leaving Gainax to finish the rest of the series on a shoestring budget.

2.) Network pressure - see above.

3.) There's never been any official explanation that the series ending was retconned. The End of Eva is often referred to as Episodes 25' and 26' (25 Prime, 26 Prime), and the creators have left it up to interpretation whether they're retcons (they were said to be the "true vision" of the Evangelion ending) or alternate/concurrent tellings of the events depicted in episodes 25/26 of the series. So "Congratulations!" is arguably as canon or not canon as "I feel sick."

Which Evangelion should I watch? Because there are different versions (1.0, 1.11 etc), what is up with those ?

A rough guide, from the very beginning:

- Original TV series
- Evangelion: Death and Rebirth (Eva: Death = a recap of the series including newly-animated scenes, Eva: Rebirth = the first half-hour or so of The End of Evangelion)
- The End of Evangelion (the movie ending to the series)
- Remastered TV series (with the new footage from Eva: Death spliced into several episodes) (can be purchased in America as the "Neon Genesis Evangelion Platinum Collection" DVD box set, though it's fairly rare now)
- The End of Evangelion: Renewal (collecting Eva: Death and End of Eva into one movie)

Rebuild of Evangelion 4-Movie series
- Evangelion 1.0: You Are (Not) Alone (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 1.11)
- Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 2.22)
- Evangelion 3.0: You Can (Not) Redo (aka "Evangelion 3.0: Q" ["Q" stands for "Quickening"])
- Evangelion 4.0: Final (in production)

Hope that helps.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I'm not that familiar with it's context (budget issues? Network pressure? Why the amazing "congratulations" ending was retconned? I'm not sure)

1.) Budget issues - In general, Gainax didn't know how much money it had to work with from week to week. It started out with a modest budget, and then after it started picking up steam, more sponsors wanted in. But then some of the middle episodes were so graphically and disturbingly violent and introspective that a bunch of sponsors pulled out, leaving Gainax to finish the rest of the series on a shoestring budget.

2.) Network pressure - see above.

3.) There's never been any official explanation that the series ending was retconned. The End of Eva is often referred to as Episodes 25' and 26' (25 Prime, 26 Prime), and the creators have left it up to interpretation whether they're retcons (they were said to be the "true vision" of the Evangelion ending) or alternate/concurrent tellings of the events depicted in episodes 25/26 of the series. So "Congratulations!" is arguably as canon or not canon as "I feel sick."

Which Evangelion should I watch? Because there are different versions (1.0, 1.11 etc), what is up with those ?

A rough guide, from the very beginning:

- Original TV series
- Evangelion: Death and Rebirth (Eva: Death = a recap of the series including newly-animated scenes, Eva: Rebirth = the first half-hour or so of The End of Evangelion)
- The End of Evangelion (the movie ending to the series)
- Remastered TV series (with the new footage from Eva: Death spliced into several episodes) (can be purchased in America as the "Neon Genesis Evangelion Platinum Collection" DVD box set, though it's fairly rare now)
- The End of Evangelion: Renewal (collecting Eva: Death and End of Eva into one movie)

Rebuild of Evangelion 4-Movie series
- Evangelion 1.0: You Are (Not) Alone (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 1.11)
- Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 2.22)
- Evangelion 3.0: You Can (Not) Redo (aka "Evangelion 3.0: Q" ["Q" stands for "Quickening"])
- Evangelion 4.0: Final (in production)

Hope that helps.

Doesn't really answer my question. Is it ok if I just watch Neon Genesis Evangelion and watch the Director's Cut of 21-24 episodes and just End of Evangelion movie after the anime? Or should I bother with Death and Rebirth as well.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Doesn't really answer my question. Is it ok if I just watch Neon Genesis Evangelion and watch the Director's Cut of 21-24 episodes and just End of Evangelion movie after the anime? Or should I bother with Death and Rebirth as well.

Oh. Durr me. Got a little carried away there, my fault.

"just watch Neon Genesis Evangelion and watch the Director's Cut of 21-24 episodes and just End of Evangelion movie after the anime" works just fine.

There's a nice end-credits sequence in Eva: Death (and Eva: Rebirth, I suppose, but I remember Death's more) if you're the snobby classical music listening type like me, though. The only animation exclusive to Death is of Shinji, Rei, Asuka, and Kaworu gathering in a theater/rehearsal room to practice playing their instruments. None of it is canon; it just serves to frame the recap. They're implied to be the ones performing that aforementioned end-credits sequence, but again, it's nothing substantial.

So you're not missing anything by skipping it altogether.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

^ Thanks!

I have recently started to go back into anime (more like a few months ago) and I need to remember some old anime that I haven't watch to put them higher on the priority list and a friend of mine said "You aren't an anime fan until you watched Evangelion" so I appreciate all the information you've given me about it.

 

[Dalisclock]

Rebuild of Evangelion 4-Movie series
- Evangelion 1.0: You Are (Not) Alone (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 1.11)
- Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance (remastered and uncut on Blu-ray as Evangelion 2.22)
- Evangelion 3.0: You Can (Not) Redo (aka "Evangelion 3.0: Q" ["Q" stands for "Quickening"])
- Evangelion 4.0: Final (in production)

Hope that helps.

Speaking of which, Anyone know why it's taking so long for the DVD/English dub of 3.0 to show up? The Movie came out two years ago, and the english dub hit US theaters 9 months ago. Is it really that hard to burn a couple thousands dvd's? I'm not even that fond of 3.0, but I'd kind of like to have it on DVD regardless.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Apparently it's something to do with Funimation still trooping it around the theater circuit. It has a new DVD/BD release date for an undetermined 2014, but seeing as how we're halfway through the year and still no word... I'm wondering if something else is afoot.

Though when it DOES release, it'll have the same 3.33 designation in keeping with the Rebuild naming scheme.

Me, I'm not really interested. 3.0 really turned me off to Rebuild. An impressive feat, all things considered. But I'm wondering if that was intentional on Anno's part. He's been known to have a very love-hate relationship with otaku culture. If that does turn out to be true, I might buy 3.0 out of sheer appreciation for his audacity... which just reeks of masochism, but then loving Eva has never been a painless task. Har har.

 

[Ishal]

It's pretty awful. The characters are a mess, and no amount of philosophical chin stroking justification is going to make it otherwise. Shinji behaves differently from the mold of other anime characters in the similar genres, but it's still awful. Saying that's better is like saying a broken nose is better than a kick in the balls.

It also brings out the most deplorable types of Weeaboos. The ones who un-ironically proclaim it be this bastion of entertainment that is superior to pretty much everything. Reality check: anything with an ending like that automatically precludes itself from carrying that mantle. Nothing worthy of such praise throws out good writing convention and gets through it unscathed. Fanfiction does it all the time, and thus has it's deserved reputation. Neon Genesis Weeaboo circle-jerk is no different.

 

[ExDeath730]

Both.

I never liked Evangelion, but i can honestly say that before...I guess episode 16, i don't remember, if someonde does, correct me please, the show is really good. Yeah, Shinji sucks for most of the time, but there is always some glimpses of badassitude there so you can still root for the guy. But after 16 the show's quality just goes on a nose dive, even the author explained why in the manga edition. He was clinically depressed and wanted to kill himself and coudn't get a real treatment because of his contract.

He was trying to finish NGE as fast as possible and obviously his state of mind made everything a mess, because let's face it, after Kaoru everything on that show went to hell. Things got nonsensical, the plot became as insane as possible and it was hard to take it seriously. That's actually the reason both the manga and the rebuild exists, because the author hated the results.

So yeah, i consider it to be alright, that was my vote on the poll, this is of course, myself being objective, like i said, i don't like the show.

 

[Mahorfeus]

I will have to toss my hat into the middle and say "both."

I've always seen NGE as the Star Wars of the anime scene, with Anno of course being its George Lucas. It is divisive at is, and I find it unlikely that many people can really like it as a whole. To paraphrase something I once heard in regards to that, "Have fun with the parts you love, and make fun out of parts you hate."

 

[Casual Shinji]

It also brings out the most deplorable types of Weeaboos. The ones who un-ironically proclaim it be this bastion of entertainment that is superior to pretty much everything. Reality check: anything with an ending like that automatically precludes itself from carrying that mantle. Nothing worthy of such praise throws out good writing convention and gets through it unscathed. Fanfiction does it all the time, and thus has it's deserved reputation. Neon Genesis Weeaboo circle-jerk is no different.

You can say the exact same thing about people who hate the show. That's the thing with divisive media, it's divisive. Just like how people who dislike Dark Souls claim fans of that game are just pretentious circle jerkers.

 

[Ishal]

It also brings out the most deplorable types of Weeaboos. The ones who un-ironically proclaim it be this bastion of entertainment that is superior to pretty much everything. Reality check: anything with an ending like that automatically precludes itself from carrying that mantle. Nothing worthy of such praise throws out good writing convention and gets through it unscathed. Fanfiction does it all the time, and thus has it's deserved reputation. Neon Genesis Weeaboo circle-jerk is no different.

You can say the exact same thing about people who hate the show. That's the thing with divisive media, it's divisive. Just like how people who dislike Dark Souls claim fans of that game are just pretentious circle jerkers.

Oh they are, but the piece of media they worship isn't shit, while the other is. Big difference there.