Poll: Oblivion Was Better

AngelOfBlueRoses

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Nov 5, 2008
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Author's note: For the following, I'd like to note that I loved both Oblivion and Skyrim. Both of them are great games that have given me countless hours of entertainment. I'm not going to bring up silly Skyrim logic, or conversely anything like that in Oblivion, to make an example of which game is better or not. I get that video game logic is kind of dumb (about the same as comic book logic, really) and they?re both guilty of stupidity all around. A lot of this is just personal feelings that I've been mulling over for the past month and have the need to blurb out at someone, anyone, everyone. And that means you, my fellow Escapists, get to hear me ramble on about the games. Finally, this story is mostly about me acknowledging doubts and mistakes in assumptions that I'd made about two games.

From what I've seen, Oblivion and Skyrim aren't like Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. They're not like Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. They're not like Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, or if you want to bring it up Mass Effect 3. They're not like Final Fantasy 6, 7, and 9. They're not like KOTOR and KOTOR II. They're not going to invoke rigorous, hard debates over which one was better because their fandoms aren?t in such stark contrast. Most Oblivion fans will like Skyrim and most Skyrim fans will like Oblivion, and sometimes this isn't the case with these other games. But that's what I'm here to do right now. I want to spark debate on one of my favorite game series, get people talking about this like they do with FO3 and FO:NV.

Oblivion was one of the first games I got when I got my original PS3 Fatty (the one that I still have and love <3 I?d hug the bastard if it wasn?t so fat). I liked it enough that I got it for the PC instead after having heard about the modding community (thought I was a bit too derpy to figure out how to work most of them at the time since I was quite young and computers were new and shiny things to me). It was a phenomenal game. It was like nothing I'd ever played before. Before Oblivion, RPG meant, to me, games like KOTOR. I was taken away by Oblivion and I had so much fun. Of course, as time wore on, I had my few gripes. There were some things that I didn't like. A lot of the mechanics were quite annoying at times and as a young teen of thirteen years old, it frustrated me.

The story was a bit bland at times, but it was propped up by marvelous side quests of the guilds (and also horse armor). Seeing Oblivion Gates pop up on the map always brought a great big sigh of "Another one?" from me. Over time even more, my opinion of it worsened. Mind you, I still recognized it as the great game it was, but I thought there were so many improvements to make, especially when it came to the mechanics. By the time Skyrim came out, my opinion on Oblivion was that it was good, but bland. Bland, bland, bland, bland, bland.

And then Skyrim came out.

When Skyrim first came out, I almost marveled at how superior it was over Oblivion. The mechanics were crisper, they made a lot more sense, and that damn level-scaling was a lot better. Leveling up wasn't crazily dependent on the skills I'd only done before the level up, which sometimes made it so that you were crippled heavily if you weren't careful about what you were doing. I rode on high about the dwarven lore, eagerly learning more. Combat was better. Embedding my axe in someone's skull for the first time was so satisfying that I nearly creamed my pants. I killed my fair share of dragons, did my guild quests and all the Daedra ones. I searched high and low for everything that I could do, just as I had done to Oblivion. It was bigger, it was better. There were *less* recycled environments (though Skyrim still had a decent amount, even if it wasn't as bad as Oblivion and? Dragon Age 2). There were so many characters. You chose a faction. You saved the world!

Or you did, at least. I didn't. All while I played the game, there was something just nagging at me that I couldn't help, something that I noted once with a direct comparison to Oblivion, the same game I'd already compared it to a few weeks before and said it was far superior. It was something I refused to acknowledge at the time, so I mostly ignore it and went on with my time, but as these things are, it gnawed at me and gnawed at me and gnawed at me until I was forced to come to a conclusion ? a rather explosive conclusion that had me quit the game, even if I had enjoyed it as thoroughly as I did. Okay, so maybe it wasn't quite explosive, but I'd like to think of it as sort of climactic! Maybe! ...just a little?
Mind you, I'd almost gotten to the end. Most of the main quest has been beaten.

Phew. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I can get to the real meat of the ordeal, but before I do that, please remember that I like both games! They're great, and if you prefer one over the other, I respect your opinion! Different strokes for different folks, really. Neither are, in my opinion, bad games. I just sometimes suffer from this terrible habit that I can't really put a word to, but I can describe: I played FFIX before FFVII and in my opinion, 9 was far better than 7 and I couldn't, for the life of me, continue on with 7 with 9 so freshly in my mind. I just couldn't do it. But enough of that example, this is about Skyrim and Oblivion. I just needed the perfect example to tell you all to explain why I didn't finish Skyrim.

I didn't finish Skyrim because it made Oblivion so fresh in my mind and the more I played Skyrim, the more that nagging thought came back to me. I still think the mechanics are better in Skyrim, that it's a functionally better game, but the conclusion that came to me was: Oblivion was better. Judge me if you will for letting such a thing get in the way of enjoying Skyrim, that's fine. I already judge myself for that quite harshly and realize it's a mistake upon my person, but that doesn't change things. That doesn't change that ?

Oblivion was better. The mechanics sucked. They still kind of do. But they were charming in their own right and hey, they made some sense for what they were. They're frustrating, but in a believable way, and I'm older and smarter now so I know how to best take advantage of them like I didn't when I was thirteen and fourteen. But the story. The story that I had once thought so bland and thought gave me so little motivation to go through at least got me through it and that final battle scene was pretty epic, if I do say so myself.

It wasn't the greatest of stories, but I was motivated to finish it, spurred on by superior guild quests that had me at the heart of the world, championing many a cause. Yes, it was silly that I could become Archmage with only having to utter one spell, but that didn't matter to me. A lot of the world may have been recycled, but it was rich and deep. Shivering Isles to this day is still the prime example of exactly how you're supposed to do an expansion (or a DLC; let's not fight over semantics, guys) and it was quite fun to see a Daedra's utter madness in such a unique world.

The story may have been bland, but it was no less generic than many other games that I love, such as Dragon Age: Origins (which is known for recently having been elected the mayor of generic-ville for the fourth term in a row), but also have deep worlds laying underneath just waiting for you to crack at. It felt a bit empty at times, but that didn't matter too much to me. The quests were usually different enough to keep my attention going, to keep it far off in another world. And hey, Kvatch was pretty intense at the time. I still think of it as intense, really.

Skyrim started off on the same note. "Holy shit, motherfucking dragons!" Running for your life while carnage goes all around you just moments after your head was about to be chopped off. Seeing that first Draugr pop up took me by surprise. It was great. Then, a monster started to rear its ugly head, that same monster of emptiness that?s found in Oblivion, but can mostly be beaten back. That monster immediately attacked my motivation and left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Oblivion was empty, but Skyrim was far worse. Oblivion knew it was empty, but it didn't need to do anything about it. Skyrim knew it was empty, but its own solution was to just fill its world with more meaningless stuff. Never-ending quests, they said. Great, I said, after finishing the fifth 'uh, so, go to someone's house and kill the monster that's in their basement.? The characterization was worse; a lot of the important characters coming off as husks, much more so than Oblivion's, and the non important ones no better than a pole. It's not that much better in Oblivion, but it's enough that I?ll make mention of it.

The guild quests were far more boring; I mean, for the love of god, Oblivion had that quest where, as an assassin, you turned an entire house against one another through fear, panic, and cunning! You stole an Elder Scroll from the clutches of the Imperials and gave a man his life back! You stopped the most powerful necromancer in the world ? and you restored the dark brotherhood to its glory so personally through a series of crazy, downright anxious quests of a mistake because of one man's creepy obsession with revenge! In Skyrim, when you restored the dark brotherhood to its glory, it was rather anticlimactic. You just did it. It was just there. It was just whatever. Props to Cicero, though. The Thieves guild was even worse. We went from working up and up and up to that perfect climax of stealing a motherfucking Elder Scroll, to? stopping your ex-leader from stealing some shiny eyes. The Mage's one wasn't too much worse than Oblivion's. Oblivion's mage section always felt the weakest to me, but it was still enjoyable, and so was Skyrim?s, for the most part, even if it didn't have the same build up and satisfying conclusion. I won't even get to the other guild quests, like the werewolves. That was just snoozeville.

The civil war was underplayed, and both sides were generally just assholes enough that my motivation took enough of a hit as it was. I eventually sided with the Imperial milk-drinkers, because they're the ones who are the least idiotic. They may be assholes, but they're the assholes we need. Both sides were yawnsfest, though, but I'll give that the ending battles were at least nice on both sides. There?s a civil war going across all of the Empire, though, and for the most part we just keep on the down-low about it other than that one meeting. C'mon, let's get more going about those blasted high elves and what the hell they're doing.

And then comes the main quest. Dragons. Motherfucking Dragons. Taking their souls and yelling death at people. It was great, at first, but then it lost its novelty fast. Interwoven with an already bland civil war, the main quest suffers at least as much as Oblivion's does, but doesn't have the benefit of the rest of the world propping it up. I honestly never thought a world-ending Dragon could be as boring as it was, but it was. I won't say much more because I know Oblivion's main story sucks as well, but the rest of the game gave me the motivation to finish Oblivion's. It didn't do that with Skyrim.

I'll hand it to the Daedra quests, though. They were at least on par with the rest, although Sheogorath's, while it was nice seeing your Champion again, felt dull.

Skyrim was a great game and had better mechanics, for the most part, but in the end it tried to be too much and came off as empty. It tried to capture that 'it was bigger, and it was better' magic that I first felt with Oblivion, and fell flat on its butt with mostly meaningless characters, boring guild quests, and a civil war that should have been given a high priority. Oblivion, for all of its blandness that I thought it was and frustrating with its terrible mechanics, captured a fanciful magic that I still remember now and still think fondly of. Oblivion's world just came off a little deeper and was saved by some of the more outstanding quests in an RPG.

TL;DR: My English teacher said that while I'm great at being quite descriptive and saying all that I need to say, she also made mention of how much I suck at summarizing things. I guess I'm not a succinct kind of guy. So, suck it up and read my post! And remember, it doesn't matter whether you liked Oblivion or Skyrim more; your opinions are just as valid as mine!

For discussion, let's debate on the points, and mention which games you liked more. Obviously you know which one I liked more.

Edit: I'd like to emphasize that I know I'm quite biased, but the entire point of this is to get people talking like they do with the two latest Fallouts. Let's debate it out! If you like Skyrim, your opinion is just as valid as mine, and tell me why you think it's better!
 

AngelOfBlueRoses

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Nov 5, 2008
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AC10 said:
I mean, let's be honest, Morrowind was the best one.
Sorry! I'd mention Morrowind if I'd have played it, but I'm planning on picking it up during the Steam Summer Sale if that helps.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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AngelOfBlueRoses said:
AC10 said:
I mean, let's be honest, Morrowind was the best one.
Sorry! I'd mention Morrowind if I'd have played it, but I'm planning on picking it up during the Steam Summer Sale if that helps.
lol you don't have to apologize! But for a lot of players, the transition from Oblivion to Skyrim that you experience was kind of how Morrowind to Oblivion felt.

IMO the more that Bethesda tries to balance the games, the more boring they become. The more they try to polish the rough edges, the less... I dunno, quirky/personal the game feels. In Morrowind you can make the most unbelievably broken characters, and it's a lot of fun to do so.

The only problem with Morrowind is it's old now. It doesn't look very good, and most importantly, there are no quest markers which many modern gamers (or old gamers now accustomed to modern times) struggle with, myself included. Also, the journal system is horrible to the point it becomes almost worthless. Still, it's my favorite game in the series.

If you pick it up... good luck!
 

Voulan

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Jul 18, 2011
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I'm also conflicted about Oblivion and Skyrim. I loved playing Oblivion, and I put several hours into it. But something about Skyrim is a little more refined. Maybe it's the better graphics, the NPCs that don't repeat the same lines with the same voices, or the more epic combat. I'm quite conflicted, but I guess with Skyrim I'm more willing to replay it with several different kinds of characters than Oblivion, despite my larger time with it.
 

Saladfork

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Oblivion was pretty good, althought the levelling system was an unholy abomination. I did like how you could make your own spells, though.

Morrowind was pretty but the gameplay itself was a little nonsensical. For some reason it didn't track hits based on whether or not you actually hit the target, but rather by rolling for attack like a DnD-esque RPG. Why would you ever do that for an action-RPG, especially one where you mostly play in a first person perspective?

I like Skyrim a lot, although I wish there was a bit more depth to the swordplay. I would be so cool with an Elder Scrolls game with the combat from Chivalry.
 

Shoggoth2588

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My big thing against Skyrim that was present/better in Oblivion is the way the world is presented to you and how accessible everything is. What I mean is, if you know where the Dark Brotherhood Secret Tree entrance is in Oblivion you can go there so long as you know how to pick the lock. There are back doors like these all over Cyrodil and so long as you can pick the locks you're good to go. In Skyrim, you can know where every back door in the game is and still be blocked off by the fact that 99% of them are blocked off by a door that locks from the inside.
 

Requia

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Whatever you think was great about oblivion, it doesn't excuse that the game was barely playable because the leveling mechanics+ the level scaling mechanics were so atrocious.
 

Glongpre

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Each was better and worse for different reasons. I couldn't say I liked one more than the other, because I played both of them a lot.
 

Shpongled

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Requia said:
Whatever you think was great about oblivion, it doesn't excuse that the game was barely playable because the leveling mechanics+ the level scaling mechanics were so atrocious.
Oh come on, "barely playable" is a gross over-exaggeration. It had weird quirks, but it still functioned adequately for anyone who doesn't get too anal about min/maxing their characters. If you just played the game as you wanted too it would never get in the way, just sit the background little sense.

The level scaling was bad, but that just meant there was never really any sense of progression, because by the time you had top tier Daedric gear - so did everyone else and their mothers. Obviously that's a bit of a downer, but i don't think a vague sense of a lack of progression makes a game barely playable.

Personally i preferred Oblivion, but i suspect that's just because by the time Skyrim rolled around the initial appeal of the more recent Bethesda "a mile wide, an inch deep" approach had worn thin on me. Morrowind was the best in it's time, that was as deep as it was wide. But to me, nowadays, Morrowind is far closer to "barely playable" than Oblivion ever will be, it just doesn't hold to my more modern standards anymore. Which is a shame, but it'll always hold a place in my memories.
 

AngelOfBlueRoses

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Nov 5, 2008
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Voulan said:
I'm also conflicted about Oblivion and Skyrim. I loved playing Oblivion, and I put several hours into it. But something about Skyrim is a little more refined. Maybe it's the better graphics, the NPCs that don't repeat the same lines with the same voices, or the more epic combat. I'm quite conflicted, but I guess with Skyrim I'm more willing to replay it with several different kinds of characters than Oblivion, despite my larger time with it.
I can understand the confliction. Skyrim definitely is more refined and I readily admit that it's functionally better, that its mechanics are more robust and crisp. And certainly, Creation looks better than Gamebyro, if only a little bit. They both look rather bad, though, and at times dip into the the uncanny valley territory, and I'll agree that it was annoying to hear someone speak in the same voice as someone else, even if, just a moment before, they had a voice of their own.

Functionally, Skyrim -is- better.

Glongpre said:
Each was better and worse for different reasons. I couldn't say I liked one more than the other, because I played both of them a lot.
Well, hey! Discuss them there reasons. You don't have to write an essay, but I'm certainly interested in your thoughts on each game. Include Morrowind if you want and if you've played it; it'll give me perspective for when I play it.
 

Voulan

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AngelOfBlueRoses said:
Voulan said:
I'm also conflicted about Oblivion and Skyrim. I loved playing Oblivion, and I put several hours into it. But something about Skyrim is a little more refined. Maybe it's the better graphics, the NPCs that don't repeat the same lines with the same voices, or the more epic combat. I'm quite conflicted, but I guess with Skyrim I'm more willing to replay it with several different kinds of characters than Oblivion, despite my larger time with it.
I can understand the confliction. Skyrim definitely is more refined and I readily admit that it's functionally better, that its mechanics are more robust and crisp. And certainly, Creation looks better than Gamebyro, if only a little bit. They both look rather bad, though, and at times dip into the the uncanny valley territory, and I'll agree that it was annoying to hear someone speak in the same voice as someone else, even if, just a moment before, they had a voice of their own.

Functionally, Skyrim -is- better.
I think that's the main reason why I prefer it, although it is a little like picking favourites amongst your children. Call me a modern gamer, but I like a game that looks as good as it feels, and in this case graphics are important to consider. Since I'm a role-playing fan, having a good looking character is key to my immersion. The only real thing that bothers me with Skyrim is not being able to cast spells when both hands are full (something I thoroughly enjoyed in Oblivion, so I can play a proper battlemage with shield and sword as well as casting destruction spells), and that stupid favourites menu instead of the hotkey menu. Pausing the game constantly like that to switch about spells and weapons is beyond irritating.

Oblivion's only real problem with me is that it's starting to become a little dated, and I despise the leveling system. But Shivering Isles is always awesome, and I love how much more colourful Cyrodiil is than Skyrim. But that was always going to be an issue between a cold climate and (what was supposed to be) a tropical environment. Oblivion's quests were far more inspired though, but I guess Skyrim's cinematic-y feel made up for some of that.

But hell, I'm getting so excited for TESO that I actually restarted Oblivion the other day with a Bosmer character (although she's extremely tall for her race because all the player characters are the same height).
 

SajuukKhar

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I personally dont see how Oblivion was better

-Oblivion's questlines were moronic, and so full of holes they make Swiss Cheese look solid.
-Skyrim's on the other hand at least attempted to have some semblance of logic and consistency in them.

-Oblivion's characters all sounded the same, and came off as morornic robots with their radiant conversations. I cant recall the number of time I heard "hello" "hi" "hows it going" "goodbye" and that was the WHOLE conversation.
-Skyrim's NPC's sounded the same significantly less frequently, and their conversations actually made sense with who they were, and where they were in the world.

-Oblivion's dungeons were rather bland, and copy-pastad like crazy.
-Skyrim's had for more flare to them, and while they re-used many of the same areas, they at least managed to look good while doing it.

-Oblivion's world in general was largely one giant repeating forest.
-Skyrim gave each of the nine hold their own unique setting and style.

-Oblivion's mechanics blew, I mean, everyone knows how bad Oblivion's level scaling was.
-Skyrim on the other hand, had such a good level scaling syste, even some of the most anti-level scaling people I know found it at least acceptable.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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KevinHe92 said:
Skyrim is technically, yes a better game. Mechanics are great. But it's just so bland and boring, barely any quests have a semblance of creativity or uniqueness.
I love Skryim but, truth told, there isn't much worth doing in that game. The Main quest takes perhaps 8 hours, the civil war and all the guild quests between 2 and 4 hours each. Sure, it's a giant world full of stuff but if you keep playing after that core stuff, there isn't much left. Skyrim was a well built world in every sense of the word but the world was far larger than they could possibly populate. I'd have settled for a smaller world with more stuff in it.
 

The_Lost_King

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Voulan said:
But hell, I'm getting so excited for TESO that I actually restarted Oblivion the other day with a Bosmer character (although she's extremely tall for her race because all the player characters are the same height).
Actually no, that is only in skyrim. In Oblivion Altmer are tall, Bosmer are short and all that.

I have the exact same feeling as you OP. Skyrim is functionally better but Oblivion just has that little something. I love Oblivion. It is in my top 3 rpgs along with Dragon Age Origins and Fallout New Vegas. The epic guilds, the creative quests, the amazing world, all of it just come together in an orgy of amazingness. I have played this game for countless hours both on ps3 and pc. This game blew my mind and no matter what anyone says it is the best and my favorite Elder Scrolls game. I never had a problem with the leveling system, though that is probably because the highest I ever got a character was like 15-20. I make way to many characters.

captcha: Describe Sony. I put better than Microsoft.
 

SajuukKhar

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The_Lost_King said:
Actually no, that is only in skyrim. In Oblivion Altmer are tall, Bosmer are short and all that.
Actually no, both Oblivion and Skyrim have different heights for each race.

In Oblivion,
-Male Altmer are 1.1
-Male bosmer are .9

In Skyrim
-Male Altmer are 1.08
-Male Bosmer are .98
 

The_Lost_King

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SajuukKhar said:
The_Lost_King said:
Actually no, that is only in skyrim. In Oblivion Altmer are tall, Bosmer are short and all that.
Actually no, both Oblivion and skyrim have different heights for each race.
I must have been thinking that fact that Skyrim doesn't make the races speed dependent on height.
 

Terminal Blue

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I guess there's no accounting for taste..

Seriously though.. you need to play Morrowind. If you thought Oblivion was deep and whimsical, then let me tell you it was a massive willy-shriveling disappointment in that department after Morrowind. Now, Morrowind is almost impossible to ply as a modern gamer because it's vastly worse than Oblivion on so many levels mechanics wise, and yet it remains one of the best and most well-loved settings in RPG history. The aesthetics and design of the whole thing is an amazing achievement, the story is actually quite challenging and deep, the faction system is the only one in any of the three most recent games which makes the slightest bit of sense ("hey guys, let's gate off core aspects of gameplay and force players to play meaningless quests to unlock them, because what the hell is roleplaying?") Even I, and I have to admit that I'm a bit of a mechanics nazi when it comes to RPGs, have to admit that it's unbeaten in that regard.

However, I seriously cannot express my contempt for Oblivion. The tiny amount of positive feeling I ever felt towards it has evaporated in the face of Skyrim, because Skyrim does everything Oblivion does without making all the stupid, amateurish mistakes. The only areas in which you could possibly contend Oblivion to be superior, in my mind, are those in which Morrowind is vastly superior to Oblivion anyway.

I will admit though, Shivering Isles was genuinely good, even if Sheogorath (the god of fishmalks) always annoys the crap out of me.