Poll: Origin - Spyware or not?

[ph0b0s123]

Spyware definition from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
"Spyware is a type of malware that can be installed on computers, and which collects small pieces of information about users without their knowledge."

Surprised this has not been done before (yes, I know there have been a lot of Origin polls here, but not on this simple topical question). Pretty self explanatory. We have all seen the stories up to this point and that people in Germany are getting angry. So let put it up to the vote. We have seen that EA have obviously denied this. The question is what do you think?

THE FACTS:
People have used monitoring programs to have a look at what Origin actually does on your system. So far all people have seen it doing, is look at files in it's own directories (Origin and Origin games) some dll files and the programdata directory. It does not necessarily read the contents of the files. This is what Origin does currently...


Myself even this amount of poking around is too much for me. Steam does more poking around, but you have the OPTION of not allowing the collected data to be sent to Steam.

Also just to explain, I am no Steam fanboy, I would prefer to use neither, as I purchase most of my games retail (always cheaper than Steam). I say this to explain that I have no hatred for EA over Steam apart from that they are doing something Steam isn't, if the data collection was optional, then I would have no more problem with Origin, than I have with Steam and Steamworks.

I am just not happy with any of these two systems looking in a non-optional way at my installed software, finding say I am using no-cd patches or any other unauthorised mod and punishing me for it. Even though I have brought the game and am not using the mods to gain advantages in on-line games. I do not want EA looking over my shoulder to check I am using their games in the way they want. Sorry but no.

I respect the need to know what software is on my PC, so they can make less buggy games that conflict less with other software. I know they are trying to do this automatically so that more people will give over the info. The dumb thing is I would quite happily fill in a form with what software and hardware I have on my PC, I just refuse to be forced to have software come in and do it instead.

So that my take, but how about everyone else? Spyware or not?

 

[Irridium]

Well considering they forced malware onto my PC with Spore, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

But I don't know. I don't use it. Have no reason to and I just don't want yet another program on my PC.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed (at least in Steam being the same as Origin, in invading your privacy) rant.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed rant.

Thank you for the condescending reply. I would like to point out that I did read your original post, and I was simply disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Steam's optional opt-out policy only stops Valve distributing the information garnered by Steam to third parties; it doesn't stop Steam gathering user info for Valve. Which puts Steam and Origin back into the same boat. But sure carry on with your superior attitude towards legitimate counter arguments.

 

[Zhukov]

Yes, of course it is.

That should be obvious to anyone who read the EULA.

And no, the revisions they made to not fix it.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed rant.

Thank you for the condescending reply. I would like to point out that I did read your original post, and I was simply disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Steam's optional opt-out policy only stops Valve distributing the information garnered by Steam to third parties; it doesn't stop Steam gathering user info for Valve. Which puts Steam and Origin back into the same boat. But sure carry on with your superior attitude towards legitimate counter arguments.

The opt out policy allows you to control whether the software and hardware data collected by the Steam client is sent to Valve in the first place. It has nothing to do with whether valve can resell the info or not. With Origin you have no option but to provide this data to EA. That's the difference. Wish I had some money for every time I have had to explain this....

 

[Something Amyss]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Thank you.

Sadly, stating the truth is pretty unpopular these days.

 

[Elsarild]

When you agree to the terms of agreement, you agree that it is allowed for Origin to collect personal data. The problem here is that it DOES NOT specify what "personal data" is according to the german lawyer who read through it.

So no, it isn't spyware, since you can say no, and if you do say yes, you know that it does it (given you read the ToA).

But that sure as hell does not make it right!

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed rant.

Thank you for the condescending reply. I would like to point out that I did read your original post, and I was simply disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Steam's optional opt-out policy only stops Valve distributing the information garnered by Steam to third parties; it doesn't stop Steam gathering user info for Valve. Which puts Steam and Origin back into the same boat. But sure carry on with your superior attitude towards legitimate counter arguments.

The opt out policy allows you to control whether the software and hardware data collected by the Steam client is sent to Valve in the first place. It has nothing to do with whether valve can resell the info or not. With Origin you have no option but to provide this data to EA. That's the difference. Wish I had some money for every time I have had to explain this....

From Steam and Valve's legal section:

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user. While Valve collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis, for certain products and online sites, Valve's collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to the product or site. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Valve in databases situated in the United States. Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy. In some situations, personally identifiable information you input in connection with Steam may be made available to other users of Steam. For example, during registration of Steam, Valve collects a user's email address and nickname, and at the user's option, first and last name. Some of this information is searchable and available to other users within Steam. Valve has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that a user makes available to other users via Steam or other Valve software, such as in multiplayer or other public functions.

Personally identifiable information protected under this privacy policy and collected from users may be done in conjunction with associates under agreement with Valve. If an associate of Valve is collecting such personally identifiable information within one of our products or online sites, Valve will make users aware of this at the time the information is gathered. For example, product registration data for Half-Life is collected by Sierra Entertainment. If a user does not want to provide this information, the user may choose to opt out of providing this information. Additionally, if providing the information is a requirement of usage, the user may decline to use that particular service or product. When possible, Valve will make a reasonable effort to direct users to the privacy polices of these associates. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to associates of Valve.

Furthermore, external websites and companies with links to and from Valve's online sites and products may collect personal information about users. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to these external websites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and websites regarding their privacy policies.

Valve may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information

That makes it pretty clear that Steam does collect user info, even if the client 'opted out'. By opting out you stop Steam passing this info onto third parties and from it looking at personally identifiable data such as your name and address, but it doesn't stop it looking at your rig set-up, the websites you visit, or the programs you run.

 

[mad825]

Please,please define what you mean by "spyware", it's a very generic term.

Information that's "personal" is gathered by all companies that I know of. Your electric,Gas,mail, Google (2nd biggist culprit), Facebook, ISPs and the very OS you are using right now.

So, Spyware as in keylogger, rootkits, Virus, adware and Worms? No.

 

[Dogstile]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed rant.

Thank you for the condescending reply. I would like to point out that I did read your original post, and I was simply disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Steam's optional opt-out policy only stops Valve distributing the information garnered by Steam to third parties; it doesn't stop Steam gathering user info for Valve. Which puts Steam and Origin back into the same boat. But sure carry on with your superior attitude towards legitimate counter arguments.

The opt out policy allows you to control whether the software and hardware data collected by the Steam client is sent to Valve in the first place. It has nothing to do with whether valve can resell the info or not. With Origin you have no option but to provide this data to EA. That's the difference. Wish I had some money for every time I have had to explain this....

I'm relatively sure that was only hardware dude. I'm not interested enough to actually go look it up, but i've seen that stated a few times.

 

[Elsarild]

Please,please define what you mean by "spyware", it's a very generic term.

Information that's "personal" is gathered by all companies that I know of. Your electric,Gas,mail, Google (2nd biggist culprit), Facebook, ISPs and the very OS you are using right now.

So, Spyware as in keylogger, rootkits, Virus, adware and Worms? No.

That's why he linked to a wikipedia entry on spyware and cited what the meaning of spyware is.

 

[major_chaos]

No, no its not and wish people would stop bitching about it since it is only as invasive as steam (it is semi optional but that doesn't change the fact that valve obviously wants large amounts of info that they have no right to have, and could only conceivable be used as an excuse to sue someone because the scan showed they have limewire installed)also remember steam also has the "we can take away all your games and any time for reasons we don't need to tell you" clause. I honestly think most of the hate for origin comes from steam fan-boys and the irrationally emotional E.A hate squad (I'm no E.A fan, I have my own issues with them but some people take it way to far)not genuine concern for their privacy, especially since I cant see what threat scanning program data (not the same as program files) represents to your security.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

It's a moot point its a app by EA it could shit gold and pay all your bills and people would still find reasons to hate it.

 

[FateOrFatality]

I don't really give a shit whether it is Spyware or not, I just want it off my computer.

 

[viranimus]

Without question. Hell I dont even think theres a point to question if it is or if it isnt, because it is. Steam is essentially the same thing, Origin is just more malignant about it.

 

[LorienvArden]

The amount of data EA CAN gather with Origin and what they can do with said data is obscene. Steam could gather Data about your System, but not personalized to your account - so they know how different types of graphics cards are around in their customer base and how many Mac'S there are in relation to PCs.
Origin could determine what Jon Does system is running, hardware wise, what OS he'S using and what Erogames he has installed. They could SELL this data to somebody else to do whatever he wishes to use that knowledge for.


The eula you have to accept for using Origin grants rights to EA that violate german consumer rights. Because of this, you can legally return the product and demand a full refund for a faulty game because agreeing to a faulty EULA makes the contract invalid (german and austria at least, anywhere else perhaps too).

Now lets try to get some legislation done that makes it unprofitable for retailers to sell games with illegal EULAs/malware in them. That way it should become more profitable to NOT screw your customer instead of advertising "free lube" as an added benefit.

 

[Elsarild]

The amount of data EA CAN gather with Origin and what they can do with said data is obscene. Steam could gather Data about your System, but not personalized to your account - so they know how different types of graphics cards are around in their customer base and how many Mac'S there are in relation to PCs.
Origin could determine what Jon Does system is running, hardware wise, what OS he'S using and what Erogames he has installed. They could SELL this data to somebody else to do whatever he wishes to use that knowledge for.


The eula you have to accept for using Origin grants rights to EA that violate german consumer rights. Because of this, you can legally return the product and demand a full refund for a faulty game because agreeing to a faulty EULA makes the contract invalid (german and austria at least, anywhere else perhaps too).

Now lets try to get some legislation done that makes it unprofitable for retailers to sell games with illegal EULAs/malware in them. That way it should become more profitable to NOT screw your customer instead of advertising "free lube" as an added benefit.

Can I hump you leg?

Or atleast say thanks for writing what I coulnd't be arsed to!

 

[silverbullet1989]

Origin is no different than Steam. Steam just a) has been around longer so people have gotten used to it, and b) is from Valve, which apparently makes up for all sorts of sins. I swear there are a decent chunk of PC gamers that would condone murder if it turned out that Gabe Newell did it. Hell, there was even an article <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making> here on the Escapist about Valve and their attempt to monopolize the PC gaming industry. Origin is simply the first real effort to break Valve's stranglehold on the gaming market.

Is it spyware? Maybe, but no worse than existing software. In my view you can either be for both Steam and Origin or against them both. To be for one and against the other is, to me, hypocrisy of the highest order.

And for the record I resent both systems for attempting to force themselves on my gaming habits.

Did you not read the orginal post of the poll that explains, again, that Origin is not the same as Steam as the collection is not OPTIONAL (don't know how may times I have had to repeat this about steam in these topics).

Or the part where I explained that I would prefer to use neither system so not an steam fanboy. But as I person that dislikes forced digital clients, Origin is worse. But sure carry on with your partly un-informed rant.

Thank you for the condescending reply. I would like to point out that I did read your original post, and I was simply disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Steam's optional opt-out policy only stops Valve distributing the information garnered by Steam to third parties; it doesn't stop Steam gathering user info for Valve. Which puts Steam and Origin back into the same boat. But sure carry on with your superior attitude towards legitimate counter arguments.

Its about time someone with a brain pointed this out CORRECTLY.. i thought i was the only one on here who was "deffending" origin, not that i am, im just sick of peope been stupid and acting as if origin is evil incarnate