Poll: Politicly Correct my A**

[Merkavar]

Only Example 5 seems to be what we're talking about (we're talking about speech) so I'll bite where exactly can you not say Merry Christmas?

yeah maybe its not in australia yet cause i havent found anywhere that people stop me from saying merry christmas. and even if they did i wouldnt care because its would be christmas time and that is the greeting for that time.

you cant tell me what not to say, i roll with 8 gangs.

 

[Serenegoose]

Attacking the people who make an argument isn't much of a counter-argument.

It wasn't a counter argument. It was me stating that these people are not qualified to talk about the situation as they lack experience on the matter. They can give their opinion but it carries no weight. Sorry, but thems the breaks. In return they generally get to have a fairly peaceful life where they're not constantly on guard whenever they walk out the door.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Read this then stop with the 'yeah well all you guys do X therefore you're probably wrong' it makes you look incapable of debate.

That's not an ad hominem attack. It's an observation. I've never heard this attack on 'political correctness' from people who actually suffer from discriminatory attacks. It's always from the people who want to bluster about how it's gone mad and is somehow theoretically impugning their rights to call people names.

And yet none of that makes them wrong.

Then take my place. You be the one who has to fear for her life, you be the one who secretly dreads watching TV because you know that even your relaxation time is going to be mocked. You be the one who is scared to speak on online games because you know the mockery that awaits the moment anybody hears your voice. You walk a mile in my shoes before you sit on your high horse and talk about principles. You do that - you live my life and you'll have a point. Until then, enjoy your privilege and be thankful society doesn't shit on you whenever it can. I do not consent to suffer for your principles.

 

[Merkavar]

Only Example 5 seems to be what we're talking about (we're talking about speech) so I'll bite where exactly can you not say Merry Christmas?

yeah maybe its not in australia yet cause i havent found anywhere that people stop me from saying merry christmas. and even if they did i wouldnt care because its would be christmas time and that is the greeting for that time.

you cant tell me what not to say, i roll with 8 gangs.

Your last line, is that a Stupid Mario Brothers reference?

not sure. its atleast a south park reference. but i heard it somewhere before southpark.

 

[Kortney]

This matters why? Are you trying to imply I participate in discrimination or are you suggesting that "I just don't know what it's like" and that the minute I do I'll instantly agree with you? Oh and I edited it out because I need some time to think over how much I agree with him.

No, I'm saying your perspective on the whole issue is utterly warped because you aren't a minority. Political correctness protects minorities and stops them being offended.

They don't care about being hurtful they care about dirty looks from others.

What?

Not sure where you live but over here if they called you a sand ****** there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

And? My point is political correctness makes these things disappear. In the past television shows openly used the word ****** and spread racist values across society. Now they can't because of political correctness.

Not calling you ****** spic, wop etc. is considered basic politeness.

You're obviously completely ignorant of 1950s society then.

A few decades ago television shows, politicians and people in day to day life able to call black people niggers and paste ethnic slurs all over society. Now they can't. Political correctness has a lot to do with that - that's a fact.

 

[Serenegoose]

You don't have to be persecuted to experience the effects of PC.

Yes. You do. You don't have to be a physicist to comment on string theory but it takes your opinion from worthless to worthwhile.

No, that's you trying to rig the argument in your favor.

See above. You can't comment on what you've not experienced.

Oh poor dear, I take it you would never insult tons of people you've never met.

They want their cake and eat it. They act like children. They want to say what they want but they want the consequences to hit someone else. When they stop acting like children, I'll stop calling them children.

Never mind. You want to insult a ton of people then hide behind 'poor wittle me' when it doesn't work? You're pathetic.

Woah woah - did you just become a great big ol' hypocrite? Ya did! Looks like you're incapable of reasoned debate. Sorry!

Hate to break it to you but you being insulted and discriminated against doesn't suddenly make you more enlightened then everyone else.

It kinda does when we're talking about forms of discrimination. I mean, I've first hand experience in it. Tons of the stuff. I know my discriminatory shit, as it were. But carry on, tell me about how I know nothing about this political correctness nonsense, how your non-experience totally outweighs my years of discrimination and abuse.

 

[Double A]

Freedom of speech is idiotic. Political correctness, equally so.
Words can hurt, and should be moderated, if only by common sense. There is nothing to be gained by giving people the right to slander or make inflammatory remarks.
On the other hand, the government has no right or purpose whatsoever to dictate right and wrong in any context, including words and opinions.
The more we care about the use of a word like black, the more we emphasise the difference between white and black people. The more we emphasise it, the more we talk about groups, rather than individuals.

Also, fat people deserve it. Like alcoholics.

How is freedom of speech idiotic?

Also, I'm fat. I really don't care what you call me, as long it's not in-my-face every time you see me. I'm not offended by words, I'm offended by people who are more annoying a freaking Uwe Bowl movie.

 

[RN7]

Partially. Mostly no, considering half the insults and descriptive language I use would be "politically incorrect".

 

[Kortney]

Wouldn't there's also be warped?

I hate doing this (as English is not even my second language and I understand how difficult it is) but you really need to get a grasp on the difference between theirs and there's. It makes your writing confusing to read.

They aren't trying to be unoffensive to blacks or whoever they are just trying to not get dirty looks/nasty comments from others.

That's because political correctness has ingrained itself in our culture and people now disapprove of racial slurs. Forty years ago they hadn't.

I think you have a broader definition of political correctness than I do.

Political correctness was a major part in calling black people in the USA "African Americans" instead of "Niggers".

I was speaking strictly of modern times (and now that I think about it that's only true in some parts of today).

Well, my point still stands. You are completely ignoring the decades of positive change political correctness has made. Like I said earlier, you can't call black people niggers in the media anymore. You can't run election campaigns with the slogan "if you want a ****** for a neighbour, vote labour". You can't refuse to hire someone simply because of the colour of their skin or the country they come from. This is all because of political correctness. It's not "politeness" because fifty years ago you were able to do all those things. Are you suggesting people today are more polite than people in the past? So am I. Why are they? Political correctness.

 

[Serenegoose]

Nope, PC is a way everyone is expected to behave therefore it effects everyone.

And people apparently proclaim that 'not using totally offensive language' is perfectly OK and expect to be sanctioned for it, and then when people say 'uh, no, you can't call people shit without being considered a total ass' they pull examples out like 'omg christmas is banned' or 'you can't say brainstorm without offending epileptics' and then 15 other nodding heads go 'hurbledurble it's PC gone maaaaad!' and all nod to themselves about how they're the last bastion of common bloody sense. It happens in EVERY THREAD. Gods, just look at this one!

"They make blanket statements about women all the time so I'm going to make blanket statement about everyone who hates PC and claim I have the moral highground." What a hypocrite. Unless you have a poll or some such all your statements about "everyone on the other side of this debate is evil" is fallacious and stupid.

Everyone is evil? And I'm the one strawmanning? I'm not saying they're evil, I'm saying their approach to the matter is childish and wrong.

Did I ever insult someone I haven't talked to? No.
Did I make sweeping generalizations and other fallacies? No.

Ad hominems are insulting people, not the argument. You called me pathetic, that's an ad hominem, you're a hypocrite. And you're apparently making sweeping generalisations of my position too, so notch that up as well.

Holy shit strawmen. Fuck, keep it up and I'll have enough for logical fallacy bingo.

You came in here whining about how you were insulted all the time and how everyone who dislikes political correctness must be a bigoted self-serving child.

Whining. Yeah, that's what I was doing. Just like you're whining that I'm still here disagreeing with you. Treat the person you're talking to with a little more respect and maybe you'll get some in turn. And you know, I'll revise my opinion on people who moan about political correctness when I see one that isn't a self-serving child. Not all of them are bigoted, most of them are just misinformed about the myriad benefits political correctness has actually brought to everyone who isn't white and male.

 

[Kortney]

My apologies, and I do mean that because usually I don't make such typos (and I too find them annoying).

It's cool!

I'm not black but I think changing it to African American is kind of stupid, but that's a discussion I'd rather not get into (so chalk that up to opinion).

Changing it from Niggers to black was definitely good though.

Here is where you need to learn a bit of empathy (which I think has been your problem during your conversation with Serenegoose.)

You may not have to agree with it, but surely you can understand why African-American people don't want to be reminded of the colour of their skin every time they turn a corner. It's degrading. Imagine every time you did something you were referred to as "that white guy" and patronised. It's not nice.

You make a strong argument. I'll have to concede that it served a useful purpose (and probably still does). I still think modern PC goes to ridiculous lengths sometimes, but that's another argument.

I agree. Modern political correctness does sometimes look a bit ridiculous. It's all worth it though - because now people of minority or disability are able to live in a society where they aren't ridiculed and reminded of it every day.

 

[Harbinger_]

Example 5: You can't say Merry Christmas in alot of places anymore it needs to be Happy Holidays, a Christmas Tree is a holiday tree and alot of schools are doing away with Christmas Pagents all together but people that celebrate Kwanzaa or Hanukkah are fully able to celebrate their holidays without these same restrictions.

There are of course alot more than this for examples and again I would like stress that I have nothing against people of other genders or race or orientation but I am against the term politically correct and how it practically reads "Hypocritical Action."

Only Example 5 seems to be what we're talking about (we're talking about speech) so I'll bite where exactly can you not say Merry Christmas?

Canada.

 

[8-Bit Grin]

Reminds me of a Nick Swardson joke, he says that he said retard at a show, and afterwards a lady told him that saying retard is offensive to people who know the mentally challenged. and he shouldnt say it. He then said "thats retarded"

I was actually referencing a joke by Ralphie May, but I suppose the basics still apply.

In his skit Girth of the Nation, he gives a speech about the highest level of happiness that a human being can reach:

Tard Happy.

Retards have it all the time.

Normal people experience it at the height of a really good orgasm.

 

[The Man With the Soap]

It's just the crazy, leftist subaru-hippies trying to infringe on our free speech.

Actually most lefties (myself included) are for all forms of freedom. Freedom of speech is one of the most important one, lefties try to defend it, actively.

Who you really are trying to blame is the "pussy lefties" or as the like to be known "overly-sensitive-minded"...


God damn hippies.

You are such an idiot.

 

[dark_mist34]

Yes to treating every one equally. But no to calling a fat person "differently sized" or stupid people "exceptional" that's just stupid.

 

[Tanis]

Political Correctness:
Freedom of Speech, as long as we like what you have to say.


I'd say a KKK member talking about porch monkeys being evil or a Black Panther blaming 'The White Man' for black on black violence is better than some ACLU brats complaining that 'Man in the Moon' is sexist and 'the n-word' (N+Tigger-T) should be ban.

At least racists like KKK and Black Panther members are open about being jackasses, these politically correct retards just high behind two big words.

Words are not bad or evil, anymore than a gun or knife is.
It's the intent behind and the way that they are used that matters and every time folks like the 'Reverend' Jessy Jackson complains about the 'n-word' it only empowers the person who is using the word to evoke terror and hate.


It's like Harry Potter and 'he who must not be named'.

 

[KP Shadow]

Example 3: Black History Month. (I have nothing against black people or women or gay people btw) There isn't a white history month, hispanic history month, asian history month.

Actually, there IS a month to celebrate the heritage of those of... latino persuasion (Cookie for reference). Also, the thing about "african-american" being used to refer to blacks, most blacks in the U.S. are African-Americans, but not all African-Americans are black. There's also those with Egyptian heritage, and those who descended from whites who settled in South Africa.

 

[baconated]

The problem is that in English there have been several attempts to introduce a new gender neutral pronoun set and it's never worked. I believe the list is up to about 15 or 20 by this point. Forcing yourself to use them feels unnatural because it's not what you have lived with your whole life, and trying to teach from birth doesn't really work since everyone around them won't use those pronouns. So since the feminist movement has made using the male pronoun set incorrect (just replacing it with the female in most cases which is just as sexist) we're generally left with the grammatically incorrect 'they'.... So I'm stuck with 'they'.

Up until the Victorian Era (or maybe the end of the Victorian Era), they was used as the neutral third person singular pronoun. As much as your highschool English teacher will try to say otherwise, they has been used this way for much longer than it has not.

Funnily enough, there are also 'it' and 'one' for third person neutral pronouns. 'One' just seems awkward and/or pretentious these days, and 'it' seems to dehumanize the target.

 

[Kinguendo]

Everytime I hear people talking about this and being against it they go into these ridiculous hypothetical situations that will never happen... Why the fuck would someone call a black eye "mouse"?!

Everyime its just people manufacturing their own anger through their own imaginings. No one is asking you to call black people something crazy like "different shade on the spectrum of colours" person... we just ask that you dont call them words created for the sole purpose of disparaging that group, and y'know... maybe lay off the Jews, they have been through a lot already.

 

[waterwithoutfish]

Maggio says that when refering to a group of mixed gener or a person of unknown gender, we must not use words and phrases that imply masculinity (he, sir, waiter, ect...). Again, hard to dispute, but later she goes to suggest the general removal of the letter combinations m-a-n and m-e-n from many everyday words.
Under this policy, we would also have to change a great many other words on the grounds that they might offend 1 person out of 10,000. Fat would become "big-boned" or "differently sized", Stupid becomes "exceptional", and Stoned would be re-branded as "chemically inconvenienced".To prevent the chance of seeming racist, we would need to change "black eye" to "mouse", "black mail" to "payola", and "black sheep" to "outcast".
And these changes would need to be implemented, not just in writing, but in verbal communication as well.

http://www.neiu.edu/~circill/F757J.pdf

Here's a link to what I'm pretty sure is the article you're referring to. I think many people who've posted on this thread might be interested to read it, since it doesn't seem to say most of the things you seem to think it does.

For instance, in discussing opposition to bias-free language, she writes:
"Cases have been built up against the mythic "woperson," "personipulate," and "personhole cover" (none of which have ever been advocated by any sociolinguist)."
Maggio is absolutley *opposed* to the "general removal of the letter combinations m-a-n and m-e-n from many everyday words."

Nor does she ever advocate changing "fat" to "big boned," "black sheep" to "outcast," or any of those other examples that you provided in the last part of your post.

You're building a big fuckoff PC strawman to argue against. You wanna argue for your right to use sexist, racist, heterosexist, etc. language? Fine. Please do it honestly.

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

Fuck political correctness. PC is a way of getting people worked up over nothing.

I used to be fat. I got the fuck off of my ass and quit complaining when I got sweaty. Are there people who have certain conditions making them heavier? Yes. But there is no reason to be over 300 lbs. and you can change every little thing you do. In an effort to defend themselves from insults many fat people unfortunately just made excuses that they came to believe.