Poll: rape worse than murder?

[Creator002]

I don't know. I'm inclined to say rape is worse. My only reason is because you can't relive your murder and, once you're dead, you can't be harmed any further. (By "you" in that sentence, I mean your consciousness or state of being. Obviously your body can still be "harmed" from a point of view, but "you" aren't actually there.)
I'm sure I could be persuaded to believe otherwise though. I see some good points in this thread.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Rape is worse than Murder (to decrease the surplus population!) but the only time for me when death murder is worse is when you burn someone alive. That's unimaginable.

 

[Adam3s]

There are numerous ways in which murder can be justified, both morally and legally.

Rape? Zero.

Legally murder is never justified, killing can be through: war, self-defense, accidental etc...but not murder. I'd also argue that morally it is never justified either, people in this thread have mentioned revenge but that's far from moral, it is the abandonment of morals through anger and a want to harm those that harmed you.

I'd actually say legally and morally rape (by it's full legal definition) has way more gray areas than murder. Some examples:

Sleeping with a 17 year old who you believed to be over 18 - would technically be rape (change ages for were you live) but not the most immoral thing in the world - certainly I would think less of someone who murdered out of revenge.

Sleeping with someone too intoxicated to say "no", whilst the rapist themselves are not of complete sound of mind due to alcohol also - the perpetrator may not have even been aware that the victim was an unwilling participant. Far from the nicest of scenarios and can still cause immense trauma for the victim but certainly more morally grey than murder.

Don't get me misunderstood, at it's worse, rape is a truly horrific crime and is right up there with torture. These rapist are amongst the lowest of the low.

Murder is still worse though as dead is dead. If there is one thing most people in this world want more than anything else, it is to live...taking that away through murder is the worst of crimes, although perhaps torture to the point...I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

 

[Lightknight]

Rape I think is equally horrible, but a different kind of pain. The mirror doesn't shatter. But it cracks, the lines still spread out. A girlfriend of mine had been raped. Even after several years it still hurt her to talk about it. Everyone handles it differently though. Some people break down retreat from society. Some become hyper vigilant.

It is a traumatic experience, but do you really think it is equivalent to "the mirror shattering"?

I'm not talking about whether or not it's actually terrible, it is. But do you think if given an option between a bullet to your head or a traumatic experience that is rape that you'd be indifferent between the two?

At least a rape victim gets to decide if they want to move forward from it.

I honestly don't know how to answer that. I've never had something like that happen to me, I have no frame of reference. I will say..that I would rather be alive. Only the living can heal.

Exactly, and that's all there is to it. No matter how bad the experience is, the living can still heal. We do have soldiers that have gone through worse. Worse in that they underwent years of torture that also included rape as part of its repertoire. Soldiers that are just (or were just) glad to survive and make it back home.

For the vast majority of people, alive is better. As I said above, 30% of rape victims express PTSD at all and only 10% have the PTSD persist for years. That 90% of victims who make it past all this darkness and live their lives fully again and the remaining 10% can still have perfectly fulfilling lives that are just sometimes interrupted by the PTSD.

To try, as some people have done, to tell these victims that they'd have been better off murdered is an astounding miscarriage of the facts to demonize something that is already viewed as demonic, if you will. Yes, we all get that rape is a terrible, terrible thing. But it is disingenuous to elevate it above the true "mirror shattering" that is murder. To do otherwise is to diminish the loss incurred by murder and to trivialize the value of human life of those who have survived rape.

Let's instead carry a message that rape is not the end. It is not an automatic death sentence and the people aren't beyond restoration of life. They are not damaged beyond love. It is not their fault. Our social taboo on discussing rape or our insistence on saying that it ruins the person only hurts victims. Society already accepts that rape is a particularly vile crime for a person to commit. But we must weigh how we talk about the victims of it carefully in a way that balances the fact that they will most likely have a full and happy life yet to live with the fact that someone just committed a great evil.

It is a balancing act, yes, but one the victims of this crime deserve from a society that failed to prevent it and is still failing to provide a safe environment to discuss it for them.

 

[Johnny Impact]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Pretty much this. What are you going to do, congratulate the winner? Develop PSAs to spread the word? I can see it now, "Rape: It's slightly less awful than murder! " The what with the what now?

 

[Lightknight]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Pretty much this. What are you going to do, congratulate the winner? Develop PSAs to spread the word? I can see it now, "Rape: It's slightly less awful than murder! " The what with the what now?

I'm not sure any action really nears murder. Slightly less awful than murder would be an understatement for most actions. This implies that if it were just a little worse then people would rather be dead than alive.

That just doesn't match the data. Murder is the end-all crime. It's the top watermark. You could potentially include kidnappers that rob their lives in other ways but it all comes down to a significant theft of life at the top. The only real thing you can do to make murder worse is to combine it with other crimes.

So slightly less awful? No, there is a sizable gap between murder and anything else. But as far as our opinion of the people who commit it? Yeah, evil. But it isn't even necessarily permanent damage. Would you rather get raped or have a limb cut off? That's not necessarily permanent damage vs permanent damage. Believe it or not, a lot of people would prefer to deal with moments of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the former than dealing with a life of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the latter.

 

[pearcinator]

Most people say murder is worse. I am going to say rape is equally as bad.

In many cases, rape leads to murder. Whereas murder is taking a life, rape is taking the dignity from the victim BEFORE taking their life. Many cases of rape (if the victim survives the ordeal) results in years of mental hardship; depression and suicide are common. The victim's life will never be the same. It's basically murder in a different name.

It is also far more difficult to 'get away' with murder because proof of the sin is already there for the most part (dead body). Rapists get away with it far more easily as victim's may not report it (as it is degrading to them) and the evidence of the occurrence comes down to a 'he said; she said' debate which could go either way.

A person accused of murder must defend themselves with evidence (They can't accuse the dead of 'making it up') A person accused of rape can straight away accuse the accuser of fraud. Therefore more murderers are caught and charged than rapists, ergo the rapists are still free to walk among us normal citizens (with the potential to commit further rape offences).

The victims may eventually overcome the experience and continue to live a happy life but I still think rape is equally as bad as murder (and in some cases, worse).

 

[Vlado]

I really hope people who voted for options other than murder do not understand what "murder" means.

 

[Olas]

I'm sorry but what?

Rape is something you can recover from. I'm sure it's traumatizing, perhaps even for years or decades, but most people will be able to move on with life eventually. Murder is the destruction of everything you are and everything you'll ever be. Even if you actually think being a rape victim is worse than death you can still choose to the latter, though I would recommend therapy first.

Ya, both are terrible, but how can we even compare them?

Also, the poll results are giving me the finger.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

Rape is much more harmful to the victim, but its not just harm to the victim that is to be considered. You also have harm to society, which you deal with in the legal trial, and harm to their loved ones, which you deal with in a civil trial. So I guess it matter who we are taking about. Rape is more harmful to the victim, but murder is much more harmful to society and their loved ones.

I say rape is more harmful to the victim because murder cant cause the victim any harm. You cant be harmed by murder because if your are murdered there is no you to be harmed.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

]sigh

I really, really don't like the idea of putting these two things in a "which is worse" argument. They're both terrible, terrible crimes in their own way, and shouldn't be compared nor pitted against each other like it's a competition. At the end of the day, nobody wins. No matter what side you choose it doesn't make you look good. It's a pointless argument.

Pretty much this. What are you going to do, congratulate the winner? Develop PSAs to spread the word? I can see it now, "Rape: It's slightly less awful than murder! " The what with the what now?

I'm not sure any action really nears murder. Slightly less awful than murder would be an understatement for most actions. This implies that if it were just a little worse then people would rather be dead than alive.

That just doesn't match the data. Murder is the end-all crime. It's the top watermark. You could potentially include kidnappers that rob their lives in other ways but it all comes down to a significant theft of life at the top. The only real thing you can do to make murder worse is to combine it with other crimes.

So slightly less awful? No, there is a sizable gap between murder and anything else. But as far as our opinion of the people who commit it? Yeah, evil. But it isn't even necessarily permanent damage. Would you rather get raped or have a limb cut off? That's not necessarily permanent damage vs permanent damage. Believe it or not, a lot of people would prefer to deal with moments of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the former than dealing with a life of suffering and dealing with the psychology of the latter.

Use your imaginations, people

I imagine that if I tied someone to a bed, poked their eyes out and forced them to eat copious amounts of dog food(with pine-needles in it) one week, and then starved them the next, and tortured them with sharp and electrifying tools all the while... And that this went on indefinitely... They'd probably believe it was a worse set of circumstances than either of the outlined options.

There's no name for this yet, I assume that's why it's not on the poll.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Is there really a point to ranking the two? They're both horrible crimes that can wreck (and even end) the lives of the victim and their loved ones. Turning it into a "which is worse" competition just seems disrespectful to the victims and their loved ones.