Poll: REALISTIC medieval combat

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A Weakgeek

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For modern warfare, that is, anything after firearms were created, you can easily find a competent simulation for. Games like arma II that have very realistic ballistics for each of the varying weapons, to games like World of tanks where all shots done to your tanks are caculated realistically, taking into account the angle, distance and the shell and the gun that made the shot. Each tank would also have its weak and strong spots.(I'M NOT SAYING WOT IS THE MOST REALISTIC TANK GAME OUT THERE, BUT SOMETHING WITH EVEN THAT MUCH REALISM I WOULD APPRECIATE) There are games for sims planes, ships, submarines, infantry... basically anything.

However, you wouldn't be able to find a game that had truly realistic medieval combat. (There is a severe lack of non fantasy medieval games in general.) The most realistic example I can think of, is mount and blade warband. However, this game, while it has great mounted combat mechanics, still has the one giant flaw: the armor is pretty much just extra hp.

If you were engaging in medieval combat, and your opponent was wearing this:
Your first instict would not be to slash his torso with a sword. But this is pretty much how all games in that era work. What you would need to do, would be to either arm yourself with a weapon with real piercering ability, like a morningstar or a halberd, or strike into a weakspot like the neck or under the arm.

So my game idea would be like this:

1. The attacks you make would be done in a "dead island" type of targeting system, where you could precicely place your stab or swing, to hit those weakspots. It would also take into accout the direction and speed of your swing upon impact. (This would affect penetration and damage.)

2. All armor types would have a rating (this would be different in different parts of the armor), that a weapons piercering rating would have to beat, to deal damage to your health. (Go through) Swords and axes could penetrate leather and even chainmail straight on, but for plate, youd have to find a joint, or use a more specialized weapon.

3. You would have a stamina bar, which upon depleting would slow you down alot and making your attacks less effective, so those deadly strikes would be easier to execute. It would drain from striking, and getting hit by non deadly blows and generally moving around. (especially in heavier armor)

4. You would be able to pick your loadout, picking a small weapon that deals fast and percise attacks, or take a polearm to take down the slow heavily armored guys from far away. Your armor choice would be mobility vs. protection. Want to go light and very fast? Just pick leather. Want to be mobile, but have your torso protected? Wear a breastplate over your cloth. Want to be a living tank? Wear fullplate. (Just hope that the enemy doesnt out maneuver you)

While this wouldn't be absolutely realistic (still using an hp mechanic) I think it could succeed. Making hitboxes for the different locations in the armor shouldnt be any harder than doing it for the tanks and plane sims we have today.

Ofcourse, this wouldnt be hollywood style sword fighting, with you slashing around wildly, but more slow and strategic, waiting for the opening to thrust your shortsword into your opponents armpit. But I think it would be a niche deserving of a single game, it could also work as a "tourney" type arena game, or an action RPG.
 

The Madman

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A Weakgeek said:
However, you wouldn't be able to find a game that had truly realistic medieval combat. (There is a severe lack of non fantasy medieval games in general.) The most realistic example I can think of, is mount and blade warband. However, this game, while it has great mounted combat mechanics, still has the one giant flaw: the armor is pretty much just extra hp.
This is incorrect actually, armour does not provide hp in Mount & Blade. Armour provides damage reduction based upon the type and momentum of the weapon hitting. A character in full plate is pretty much immune to wooden clubs for example as they simply don't have the power or piercing strength to penetrate it, whereas something like a lance or halberd can still be devastating for obvious reasons. It can be extremely entertaining late-game to go fight a couple looters and just stand there in plate as they desperately try to even hurt you, although if one happens to have even a cheap a crossbow that could backfire badly.

As for your idea it's a solid one. Solid enough that you're far from the first person to have thought of it really. Mount & Blade aside there's the upcoming War of the Roses:


And other 'in the works' project such as the successfully crowd funded project CLANG now in development.

The reason in the sudden surge is because now for the first time technology is at a point where that sort of gameplay is becoming possible. Controls are still a problem and most have had to either simplify slightly or defer to alternative control methods, but the idea for a hardcore medieval combat sim is there.

There's also a Mount & Blade 2 in development as well, so I'm eager to see how that ends up turning out. Good idea though!
 

Xan Krieger

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Feb 11, 2009
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Much like the Madman I also enjoy standing in complete plate while looters tap on my armor with their meager weapons. The game was as close to realistic medieval ass whooping as I think there is on the market today. Actually on the subject of dead island I would imagine it as similar to fighting those cop zombies who were wearing body armor so you had to go for the uncovered bits. If you could assemble a team to modify a knight into Dead Island I would <3 it.
 

A Weakgeek

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The Madman said:
A Weakgeek said:
However, you wouldn't be able to find a game that had truly realistic medieval combat. (There is a severe lack of non fantasy medieval games in general.) The most realistic example I can think of, is mount and blade warband. However, this game, while it has great mounted combat mechanics, still has the one giant flaw: the armor is pretty much just extra hp.
This is incorrect actually, armour does not provide hp in Mount & Blade. Armour provides damage reduction based upon the type and momentum of the weapon hitting. A character in full plate is pretty much immune to wooden clubs for example as they simply don't have the power or piercing strength to penetrate it, whereas something like a lance or halberd can still be devastating for obvious reasons. It can be extremely entertaining late-game to go fight a couple looters and just stand there in plate as they desperately try to even hurt you, although if one happens to have even a cheap a crossbow that could backfire badly.

As for your idea it's a solid one. Solid enough that you're far from the first person to have thought of it really. Mount & Blade aside there's the upcoming War of the Roses:


And other 'in the works' project such as the successfully crowd funded project CLANG now in development.

The reason in the sudden surge is because now for the first time technology is at a point where that sort of gameplay is becoming possible. Controls are still a problem and most have had to either simplify slightly or defer to alternative control methods, but the idea for a hardcore medieval combat sim is there.

There's also a Mount & Blade 2 in development as well, so I'm eager to see how that ends up turning out. Good idea though!
First of all, thanks for the thought out, well written response. Especially for that games you suggested, it looks great.

Also, do not get me wrong, I've been a fan of mount and blade for a very long time, and I do know how the armor works, perhaps I was being unfairly simplistic in my explanation. Most of what happens in Mount and blade with the armor and weapon types are purely in the backround though, and I feel like that even the realism we have there is mostly overlooked in the gameplay. My dream game would have armor weakspots and weapon piercering/damage types as a core mechanic, In mount and blade, simply choosing the sword with the best damage does get you very far.
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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Shamus Young had some interesting ideas for more realistic melee combat that I don't think have ever been implemented: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=188
 

Shadowcreed

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Jun 27, 2011
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There's this new kickstarter

CLANG!!!

CLANG should bring us realism to the medieval floor, hopefully. Not sure about the swinging in my dorm room though.
 

RazielXT

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Oct 19, 2009
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How about Age of chivalry? I had many hours played with it. Not really like your idea but still most believable medieval fighting ive seen. (except for maybe Dark messiah)
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Realistic medieval combat sounds very boring. So sword fighting is a little interesting, but making games realistic doesn't mean that the games are getting more fun. Really, think about medieval combat and imagine seeing it realistic and you'll see what I mean.
 

Seaf The Troll

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Jul 6, 2010
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i would suggest you try demon soul or dark souls and not use magic. as i rumble in my massive game colection. i see you have a point but then i spotted way of the samueri 3. so they are close things to what you said but you have spoted a gap i think.

hmm now to wait and see >.>
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Just a small nit pick, WoT does not calculate shit realistically, yes they have a much more complex model then most shooters out there but it is not a simulation.

Anyway it seems that for some reason a whole bunch of people have already gotten on this band wagon and there are about a dozen of these semi realistic melee combat games in the works, so you got your wish.
No doubt I'll try some but simulations are usually boring as all hell.
 

Oly J

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Nov 9, 2009
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I love medieval settings in games, so any new mechanic would be good for me to try, this sounds quite interesting, in a "Deadliest Warrior" kind of way
 

zumbledum

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Nov 13, 2011
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not sure they count as realistic but mount and blade warband is an awesome game, and that war of the roses looks to be much the same style cant wait for it.
 

WaysideMaze

The Butcher On Your Back
Apr 25, 2010
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A lot of people are mentioning CLANG, but the problem there is that not all of us are fans of motion controls.

Don't get me wrong, the idea looks insanely cool, and I really hope they pull it off, but when I get home at the end of a long shift, I don't want to have to start waving my arms around and do more exercise. I'd like to play a medieval combat game whilst relaxing and, most importantly, sitting down.

I'll probably give clang a try, sure, but I'd like there to be other options aswell.

As a side note I'm currently playing mount and blade warband a lot and loving it. Getting me a big group of Kherjit lancers and just running down enemy infantry is fun.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Devoneaux said:
Yopaz said:
Realistic medieval combat sounds very boring. So sword fighting is a little interesting, but making games realistic doesn't mean that the games are getting more fun. Really, think about medieval combat and imagine seeing it realistic and you'll see what I mean.
To be honest, realism is largely a gimmick anyway.

It has it's useful applications sure, but there's a reason Call of Duty isn't actually realistic: spending 90% of your time staring at what's left of your leg after a mine blew it away would fucking suck. I should know; It was a level in Depression: The Video Game.
I know this might be too soon, but dude, I love you. You managed to capture exactly why I don't like realism. Realism is the what I want to escape when I play games, not what I want to see in games. A realistic medieval game would probably mean the most dangerous thing was diseases caused by bad hygiene anyway.
 

A Weakgeek

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Yopaz said:
Devoneaux said:
Yopaz said:
Realistic medieval combat sounds very boring. So sword fighting is a little interesting, but making games realistic doesn't mean that the games are getting more fun. Really, think about medieval combat and imagine seeing it realistic and you'll see what I mean.
To be honest, realism is largely a gimmick anyway.

It has it's useful applications sure, but there's a reason Call of Duty isn't actually realistic: spending 90% of your time staring at what's left of your leg after a mine blew it away would fucking suck. I should know; It was a level in Depression: The Video Game.
I know this might be too soon, but dude, I love you. You managed to capture exactly why I don't like realism. Realism is the what I want to escape when I play games, not what I want to see in games. A realistic medieval game would probably mean the most dangerous thing was diseases caused by bad hygiene anyway.
Just a note for you guys, I did not say all medieval games should (I also enjoy fantasy games such as Elderscrolls, DnD, etc.) be like what I described. All I wan't is for one, or a few games to attempt at simulation. This would also be an attempt in something new ( Versatile and fun First person melee combat). Also, please be civil and don't present points like diseases killing you in a warcamp etc. I never did ask for "Life of a medieval soldier, the game", ARMA II doesn't make you patrol the desert for 6 months, its still thought to be a simulation of infantry combat.

Devoneaux said:
Yopaz said:
Devoneaux said:
Yopaz said:
Realistic medieval combat sounds very boring. So sword fighting is a little interesting, but making games realistic doesn't mean that the games are getting more fun. Really, think about medieval combat and imagine seeing it realistic and you'll see what I mean.
To be honest, realism is largely a gimmick anyway.

It has it's useful applications sure, but there's a reason Call of Duty isn't actually realistic: spending 90% of your time staring at what's left of your leg after a mine blew it away would fucking suck. I should know; It was a level in Depression: The Video Game.
I know this might be too soon, but dude, I love you. You managed to capture exactly why I don't like realism. Realism is the what I want to escape when I play games, not what I want to see in games. A realistic medieval game would probably mean the most dangerous thing was diseases caused by bad hygiene anyway.
Honestly I think this search for perfect realism is just a misdirected effort. What we really want is "Logical" take for example, mass effect. It's not "Realistic" but it makes some kind of logical sense in the context of the game. "Okay, fictional element bends the rules of physics allowing fantastical feats of technology." You're able to suspend your disbelief because it -SEEMS- at least slightly plausible.
I agree to a certain point, that trying to make a game as realistic as you possibly can isnt very viable right now, but I see no harm in trying to find a balance. There is no reason why you can't have a medieval setting that is actually realistic, and tries to simulate real medieval combat while staying functional. (As long as games are controlled with a keyboard and a mouse or a joypad, you will always have to compensate for the lack of control.)
 

Dogstile

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Devoneaux said:
Mr.K. said:
Just a small nit pick, WoT does not calculate shit realistically, yes they have a much more complex model then most shooters out there but it is not a simulation.

Anyway it seems that for some reason a whole bunch of people have already gotten on this band wagon and there are about a dozen of these semi realistic melee combat games in the works, so you got your wish.
No doubt I'll try some but simulations are usually boring as all hell.
Honestly, how is WoT even considered realistic? It's a world where gold has the magical penetration properties of fricking diamond. I'm sorry, but "Realistic Tank Warfare" in a world with magical golden bullets? False advertising as far as i'm concerned, though I suppose "Realistic" is just one of those ambiguous words isn't it?
What do you mean by magical golden bullets? The gold ammo is usually Armour Piercing Composite Rounds that actually become really crap at penetrating anything after 100m.

I don't know about HEAT rounds, but they are actual things. You just have to pay more money to use them.
 

A Weakgeek

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DVS BSTrD said:
I just have one question about the realism:

<youtube=mjEcj8KpuJw>
Well, you probably wouldnt be chopping off peoples limbs with a one handed sword, while the enemy is wearing chainmail. But if you were swinging a claymore with your enemy wearing leather... Why not?
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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Devoneaux said:
dogstile said:
Devoneaux said:
Mr.K. said:
Just a small nit pick, WoT does not calculate shit realistically, yes they have a much more complex model then most shooters out there but it is not a simulation.

Anyway it seems that for some reason a whole bunch of people have already gotten on this band wagon and there are about a dozen of these semi realistic melee combat games in the works, so you got your wish.
No doubt I'll try some but simulations are usually boring as all hell.
Honestly, how is WoT even considered realistic? It's a world where gold has the magical penetration properties of fricking diamond. I'm sorry, but "Realistic Tank Warfare" in a world with magical golden bullets? False advertising as far as i'm concerned, though I suppose "Realistic" is just one of those ambiguous words isn't it?
What do you mean by magical golden bullets? The gold ammo is usually Armour Piercing Composite Rounds that actually become really crap at penetrating anything after 100m.

I don't know about HEAT rounds, but they are actual things. You just have to pay more money to use them.
If memory serves, in the beta at least the gold ammunition were literal golden shells.
A lot has changed then, it seems. Would be wise to check it out again if you want to talk about it :)
 

Dogstile

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Jan 17, 2009
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Devoneaux said:
dogstile said:
Devoneaux said:
dogstile said:
Devoneaux said:
Mr.K. said:
Just a small nit pick, WoT does not calculate shit realistically, yes they have a much more complex model then most shooters out there but it is not a simulation.

Anyway it seems that for some reason a whole bunch of people have already gotten on this band wagon and there are about a dozen of these semi realistic melee combat games in the works, so you got your wish.
No doubt I'll try some but simulations are usually boring as all hell.
Honestly, how is WoT even considered realistic? It's a world where gold has the magical penetration properties of fricking diamond. I'm sorry, but "Realistic Tank Warfare" in a world with magical golden bullets? False advertising as far as i'm concerned, though I suppose "Realistic" is just one of those ambiguous words isn't it?
What do you mean by magical golden bullets? The gold ammo is usually Armour Piercing Composite Rounds that actually become really crap at penetrating anything after 100m.

I don't know about HEAT rounds, but they are actual things. You just have to pay more money to use them.
If memory serves, in the beta at least the gold ammunition were literal golden shells.
A lot has changed then, it seems. Would be wise to check it out again if you want to talk about it :)
Ehh, bad memories. I seem to recall the difference in power between two tiers of tanks was way too high. Still the case?
Really does depend on the tank. They are however, in the middle of a huge re balance where they plan on making it so your tank will only go up against tiers one level above or below you. Interesting times in the tank world.