Poll: RPGs & Loot

[Mr Thin]

The official term is 'Procedural Generation', and it's used for a lot of things, but this thread is about one specific use.

Namely, loot.

Games like Diablo 2, Borderlands, Dungeon Siege and Hellgate London are prime examples of what I'm talking about. Games that not only generate their loot randomly, but often advertise this as a feature.

It has been a staple of so many RPGs, and I was wondering, how many people actually enjoy it?

Personally I don't like it. It's right up there with grinding on my list of 'things I don't like about RPGs'.

But enough of what I think; what do you think, oh noble Escapians?
Do you even care?
Have I made my first topic about something completely insignificant?
Will the poll fail me as it has so many others?

Let's find out.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I love it. I enjoy comparing stats between items and finding those that best fit my style of play. It feels more rewarding to me, anyways

 

[Hong Meiling]

If the game is already of a grindy nature, with lots of loot, hell yeah.
Torchlight without random outrageous loot? What?

If the game is a linear progress quest with a clear start and end... I think gear progression should be a bit more linear with a few hidden surprises.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Depends. Some of my favorite RPGs (Spirit Engine 2, Devil Survivor) have no random lewts at all, and plenty of solid RPGs might as well not have any. OTOH, opening a chest in Borderlands and finding a good masher or double anarchy is a pretty enjoyable experience.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Loot is nice, there's nothing wrong with having a good amount of loot to...loot.

However, when loot is made to be a priority and everything else is shafted for it, that's when it becomes bad *cough*Fallout 3 DLC*cough*.

 

[TheLoneBeet]

I love it. I hate when games generate the same loot in the same places or from the same baddies. It kills replay value for me.

"I'll just wander to this spot to pick up this amazing weapon so the rest of the game is a cake-walk."
- BAH!!

"I'll just wander to this spot to pick up this- HEY WHERE'D IT GO!?!?!?! Now I have to actually try and play the game properly like the first time."
- Excellent.

 

[FalloutJack]

Never know when you might need it.

 

[thedoclc]

OP: Your poll misses the option to say it depends on the game.

Consider, say, how old Baldur's Gate treated loot. It was absolutely fixed, which led players to have concrete plans about when to pick up what for various reasons. Whether or not the metagaming is a plus or a con is up to individual taste, but I would consider that a negative. Maybe it's the old TT player in me, but having the player use out of game info to base their strategic decisions is a death knell to an RPG.

However, the older BG's also made the loot entirely logical. This is a huge improvement to how many RPGs simply make random treasures drop from enemies at certain rates. It just feels wrong to find out that the standard creature was carrying an infinity plus one sword and somehow was unremarkable.

Likewise, true random drops for great items leads to inherent grinding for these objects and many RPGs are not well served by item drops. Consider ME2; the game gained a lot by dropping pointless layers of nigh identical gear for a much more cinematic, much more reasonable, and much more streamlined system.

I'd say games which have no role playing element - pure dungeon crawlers like Diablo - can go ahead and stick with random drops. MMOs likely must stick with them as part of the grind needed to keep players playing. JRPGs, with their usually linear stories, annoy the crap out of me when you need to spend hours hoping a monster drops a weapon; they would definitely benefit from less random drops and more control. As for the more traditional WRPGs, I think random drops have very little place, save for occasional variance among common enemies. For example, if the procedural spawning gives the enemies superior equipment, they could then use AI which represents their better payload, be worth greater rewards, and demonstrate that equipment in game.

It's not hard. Fallout 3 did it easily. Did a group of raiders spawn with bats and tire irons or with a rocket launcher and assault rifles? These will be two very different encounters and the -loot- on the enemies is going to change everything about how those two fights feel.

 

[Saelune]

Well not every game can have some omnipresent force to convienently place loot that just happens to help against that next big boss.

Random loot is random because you cant really know what those bandits have stolen.

 

[Mr Thin]

Wow. I knew it was popular, but I didn't expect the poll to be so one sided. Only two votes for not liking it, and one of them was mine.

It's not that I don't understand the appeal; I have felt the satisfaction that comes with killing a boss and getting a particularly rare and powerful item.

What I don't like is how it seems that people define RPGs more by this feature than they do by role-playing. Call me a heathen, but I find (for example) Mass Effect 2 to be much more of an RPG than Diablo 2, despite the whole loot system having been all but removed.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I love loot but it shouldn't be completely random, it needs to feel like we are overtaking a world not playing the lottery:
- only the strongest monster in the group should drop loot
- special monsters dropping special loot
- useless shit should not be dropped or it should convert to currency
- except for consumables loot should be rare, noone wants to be on inventory cleanup duty every five minutes, it also makes the eventual prize oh so sweet

 

[kickyourass]

I'm gonna be blunt, I am a loot whore, I have gone to painstaking lengths in the past to make sure that I do not miss a SINGLE peice of loot before. I once spent 2 full real life days running back and forth between a dungeon in Oblivion and town, because I couldn't bare to leave anything behind no matter how worthless.

 

[Savagezion]

I like it, but it isn't necessary. I just want a good loot system in play. I do prefer it in games like diablo and such because it allows my characters to always be different than the previous games. If I got the same crap every game, it doesn't sit as well with me by playthrough 4-5. (Think about that though. It obviously isn't a bad thing if I play though it a handful of times before I tire of it.) I actually refer to Diablo type games as the "treasure hunting" genre.

I like to see it come into RPGs as it does help the replay value. BUt what is best is this loot system mixed with some guaranteed items along the way.

 

[Zhukov]

Depends what kind of RPG we're talking about.

In a Diablo-style hack and slasher, sure. After all, I'll need something to distract me from the painfully monotonous gameplay and complete lack of plot.

In a story-driven RPG like what Bioware make... meh. I really don't see the point. I'm really not in it for the numbers on the random items that the random enemies randomly drop. Just more shit I have to clean out of my inventory.

 

[Krinku]

It's okay. I don't really care unless it really effects my play style

 

[Jandau]

Randomly generated loot is the developer's way of saying "We really couldn't be bothered" and is always inferior to actually designed items. Period. The so-called variety it provides is mostly an illusion, since you're stuck sifting through piles of poop, crap and shit to get to a few good items. And most often, those good items are the game's "Uniques", "Legendaries" and whatnot, which are, you guessed it, pre-designed and therefore don't suck balls.

Procedurally generated loot is filler, nothing more, nothing less and I'm mildly sad that it's become such a genre norm...

 

[geK0]

Although I like loot in some games, random loot tables can be EXTREMELY frustrating in others, shared loot especially

[ rant ]
KILLED KELTHUZAD 20 FUCKING TIMES BEFORE GETTING CALAMITY'S GRASP THEN GOT OUTROLLED FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ /rant ]

 

[Smooth Operator]

What I don't like is how it seems that people define RPGs more by this feature than they do by role-playing. Call me a heathen, but I find (for example) Mass Effect 2 to be much more of an RPG than Diablo 2, despite the whole loot system having been all but removed.

Genres can only be defined by their features, those three arbitrary words are merely a name distinction, you can call any game role playing if you only go on that.

Mass Effect and Diablo only borrow some RPG features, ME has the story/plot mechanics, Diablo the monster/loot/inventory system, same as Borderlands, but calling these actual RPG's is a huge stretch.

 

[Thaluikhain]

One of the few improvements Avernum had over Exile was that when you kill a random monster, it doesn't drop gold/food and maybe an item, it drops everything that monster was equipped with.

When you kill someone, you don't just take their gold, you take their clothes and their shoes as well, which, IMHO, makes the game seem alot more realistic and somewhat grittier. Mind you, you end up having to carry loads of almost rubbish around.

 

[thedoclc]

Snip

What I don't like is how it seems that people define RPGs more by this feature than they do by role-playing. Call me a heathen, but I find (for example) Mass Effect 2 to be much more of an RPG than Diablo 2, despite the whole loot system having been all but removed.

Because it is much more of an RPG. Role playing game. Mass Effect allows the player to attempt to enter the shoes and make the decisions for Shepard, whereas Diablo and clones have nothing to do with role playing.

The term RPG when it comes to video games blurs both games which are essentially driven by their mechanics alone (and thus have no role playing to speak of) and games which feature extensive role playing. The term RPG when it comes to table games, the source of the genre, only exclusively refers to games where players have significant opportunities to play the characters as personalities. (They need not do it, but at least the chance is there.) Games which simply involve combat with no real player choice tend to be wargames, minis battle games, skirmish games, etc.

In video game jargon, we've applied the term RPG to things which have no role playing at all.

Edit: typo correction