Poll: RPG's with no level caps?

[Deacon Cole]

..., a game only needs to be fun, that isn't shallow it is a simple thing because that is all it needs to be.

I am attempting to dissect what leveling up entails, how it works and why people find them engaging. To respond to questions to that effect with "because it's fun" offers no insight or understanding and tells us nothing about leveling up and what makes them compelling. It is a shallow answer that is not very helpful.

I have a real life outside of games, we don't need to over think this.

That ends the conversation right there, doesn't it?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

[jebus4you]

I've thought about it as everybody surely, but isn't this level limit on many games (mostly console games) really annoying? like if the developers did it on purpose so that you have a limited amount of fun; (which i found it restrictive and punitive somehow...)

so answer the poll and if you have something to add (an idea, or if you think i'm wrong...)

ps: have a nice day/night.

Well once you hit the level cap it should get funner right? Such as in WoW. No level cap would be bad since it would only be good for those people who have time to play the game all day. So it would only reward you if you play more. Thats not what games should be. Whether you can only play 20 min a week or 20 hours you should be able to be the same level of skill as everyone else.

 

[Hargrimm]

No level caps. (by that i mean being able to max all of your skills, because there will always be a cap)

I like being able to crush everything that stands in my way.

It also adds some kind of dynamic difficulty. When you're not good enough to defeat your enemies, you can just level up until you are able to (and by not good enough i mean because of player skill and not the stats. If it's because you need to be at a higher level, that's just poor design). If you like to have a challenge, you can just skip encounters and stay at a low level. If you don't like that (or it's just not possible without missing out on a lot of the content i.e. sidequests) the game should give you the option of level scaling.

Some have also mentioned that no cap would make all characters the same at higher levels, which could be avoided by having a class based system.

Which would basically be like ME1 without the level cap.
In ME1, a higher difficulty setting would scale enemies to your level and add immunities, forcing you to fight strategically and it also had different classes to choose at the start.

 

[SimuLord]

This is a wicked loaded question. At some point you have to put a cap on just how strong the player can get in order to avoid either making the game way too easy (with static enemies) or inevitably unbalancing your game in favor of warrior-type DPS-loaded characters (Morrowind and Oblivion, I'm looking squarely at you.)

The level cap has to be high enough to encourage a sense of progression (Fallout 3 without Broken Steel, or even WITH Broken Steel, pleasure to meet you, 30's not enough and 20 is just a joke), but not so high that Infinity Plus One Swords are part and parcel.

 

[Manhattan2112]

I like not having a level cap. I don't think it's necessarily possible, but I like it.

 

[Megacherv]

Your level would eventually reach a maximum due to the fact that your processor can only hand numbers up to a certain size depending on what XX-bit it is.

 

[TheSeventhLoneWolf]

Well. I guess there's a cap on them so the developers can update the game from time to time. If there wasn't, then people would best any monster they come across. Thus making it boring and/or unfair when the next patch comes out.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

No level cap = For people who need a nice ego-rub, since eventually nothing in the damn universe of the game could stop you

Level cap = For people who actually enjoy a challenge

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

I've thought about it as everybody surely, but isn't this level limit on many games (mostly console games) really annoying? like if the developers did it on purpose so that you have a limited amount of fun; (which i found it restrictive and punitive somehow...)

so answer the poll and if you have something to add (an idea, or if you think i'm wrong...)

ps: have a nice day/night.

Well once you hit the level cap it should get funner right? Such as in WoW. No level cap would be bad since it would only be good for those people who have time to play the game all day. So it would only reward you if you play more. Thats not what games should be. Whether you can only play 20 min a week or 20 hours you should be able to be the same level of skill as everyone else.

WoW is just 1 example, there are plenty other rpg's that aren't massive, and others that are only on singleplayer...

 

[Jenova65]

..., a game only needs to be fun, that isn't shallow it is a simple thing because that is all it needs to be.

I am attempting to dissect what leveling up entails, how it works and why people find them engaging. To respond to questions to that effect with "because it's fun" offers no insight or understanding and tells us nothing about leveling up and what makes them compelling. It is a shallow answer that is not very helpful.

I have a real life outside of games, we don't need to over think this.

That ends the conversation right there, doesn't it?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

There is no need to be sarcastically polite! You asked me a question, I answered (from my point of view) I am not looking for philosophy in levelling up, OK? Some people enjoy it some don't, it isn't complicated it is like trying to work out why a lot of women prefer doing cross stitch and watching soppy romantic films, cross stitch makes me want to tear my hair out at the roots, I can't define for you why it does, it just presses my buttons, not in a good way.
Regarding levelling up, OK, let's get back on topic with it. What purpose does it serve? None, in many ways it is pointless this has been proven by games that require no levelling up at all. It is however a mechanic of very many RPG's to the degree that a large proportion of RPG'ers expect it it, they find the levelling system a fun part of the game, chasing Thundaga or some such spell/skill that an enemy is weak to, to better enable them to defeat that enemy. Sure we could come equipped with everything we need to do that at the beginning, but surely you can see why it is more fun to learn it as you go along? Unless you don't like RPG's in which case it begs the question why join in the thread asking if we prefer level caps or not? (which is the point of the discussion, not whether we should get rid of levelling up or keep it) To 'dissect', it further (although I am not sure it needs dissecting, tbh) Levelling when the enemies level with you - Well if they are levelling too, what IS the point? They are going to hit harder, faster and for longer, surely we need a better healing skill than we did at the start. It has a purpose, it provides an enjoyable element to the game for those of us who enjoy it, in the same way that performing a skilled move in a fighting game does for those who enjoy that. If that is it's only purpose and it works then that is all it needs to do, it does not need to provide substance for lengthy debate. I clicked on this thread vote that I don't like level caps, regardless of anyone else's view, I still don't, my mind has not been changed by any argument it doesn't mean I don't see why others don't like it. However if you prefer a level cap or having to choose between one skill set or another it is simple, stop levelling when you feel you know enough and the game is still a challenge as my son does and it works for him.
We are just different

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Most of the time the level cap is far beyond what you need to beat the game. Like Final Fantasy games, usually cap at 100, when you need around 50-60 to beat the game.

I don't really see a problem with this.

To beat the game yes, but to kill all the secret bosses? Sorry, but my FF raping father still hasn't taken out Emerald Weapon (altough he has beaten every other ridicu-enemy from FF7 to FF12 excluding 11. Oh and I remember the days when RPG's were on paper and happily continue the tradition. I'm actually getting Serenity RPG game going. Due to the immense freedom compared to AD&D its actually quite hard to write for.

IF there was no level cap, Then you'd continue leveling until the game would prevent you from leveling any farther, Ever the best monsters would be easiest for you.

Unless the monsters became proportionally harder to defeat, which I think most games without a level cap do.

That kind of defeats the purpose of leveling up, doesn't it? What is the point of leveling up if the obstacles level up with you?

I hate to throw in a bit of thought here, but if I recall, most RPG's don't allow you to level as a naked fist fighter. Part of these games battle requirements is earning better gear, typically found as monster drops. Most characters don't do so well with a wooden sword and cloth armor(if they are warriors), so it is important to level your equipment along with your character levels.

Now if you haven't gotten the point yet, it is that when RPG's have level-scaling enemies, they actually do get harder, because their equipment improves with them but, their equipment still has its own cap, so even with scaling enemies, your equipment can still be much greater than theirs, thereby giving you your god-like powers anyway. To sum it all up: The purpose of leveling is to be able to get better equipment, not to get inhuman base stats. It is the equipment that gives you power instead of your character level.

True dat, quite often the gear your getting gives better bonuses then the actual level, thats why weapons have level caps.

 

[w-Jinksy]

What fallout3 has done works. If you raise the level cap with each dlc, start off with a cap of say 50 then 60 70 80 90 100 when the DLCs come out.

i think youll find blizz did that befor them with WoW.

I don't like level caps when they limit you from getting more perks and abilities i.e original fallout 3.

 

[vikeif]

For plain RPG's it doesn't matter because your mainly playing single player.
For MMORPG's you need a level cap so you don't have "Make Love Not Warcraft" problems.

Except GM's wouldn't have an issue with deleting the GOD OF WARCRAFT cause they get bored.

He means so you won't have the one person with no life dominating everyone without being able to be beaten. If GM's deleted characters for being too good... I don't even know what would happen. I don't think any MMO is retarded enough to try it.

I know what he meant, captain obvious. But, they do that in some MMOs that don't have the level limit to seriously level the lifeless tard's E-peen.

Secondly, my comment was more geared about the show in reference where it depicted the Blizzard staff and GM's and total pussies.(which a mused me to no end.)But considering the ".killallplayers" command being a GM toy, I doubt I'd ever see a GM with a tiny in game internet cock.

I want waffles...

It's funny that you call me Captain Obvious, when you said that "GM's can kill people." That was completely irrelevant to the point he was making.

Considering AGAIN I was talking about the south park warcraft episode that was ABOUT a player that was so strong the GMs couldn't kill it... it has relevance...

I still want waffles...

 

[azukar]

iyswim

/snip

Yeah... so expanding my last paragraph into three Sure, why not? Let's repeat it again for the masses:

Taking a major RPG element out of an RPG kind of turns it into a different genre.

 

[Jenova65]

iyswim

/snip

Yeah... so expanding my last paragraph into three Sure, why not? Let's repeat it again for the masses:

Taking a major RPG element out of an RPG kind of turns it into a different genre.

I was agreeing with the last part of your post sometimes people do that, they back you up. Jeez, why do I bother?
And if you read the whole thread you will see that your statement for some people is apparently too simple, we have to dissect and analyse what is fun about it (read my other posts)

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

In general, I prefer a cap. That said, there is some merit to games that have a cap but not one that one could reasonably reach. Eve Online for example has a "cap" so to speak - at about 450 million SP. After nearly three years of playing my character possessed about 40 million SP. As a rough estimate, the most SP one can train in an hour is under 3000 (I personally maxed out at 2240sp/hr but I'm willing to accept that with very particular builds it can be nuded higher, and that there are slighly better learning implants than the ones I used). The cap has also shifted ever higher so, it is effectively "uncapped" simply because nobody has ever reached it (or even come close for that matter). There are plenty of caps in the game however - one can never train a skill beyond level 5 and after a paultry 60 million SP one can be fully skilled in every applicable skill for every type of ship a particular race flies.

 

[Vako Vakakoko]

well if you want a game with no lvl limit there is a 2D game.... go to sacredseasons.com the sacred seasons 2 have not lvl limit so have fan