An RPG is just another action adventure (or other genre). So the real question is, what does leveling actually do? What does it really bring to the table?Jenova65 said:
Poll: RPG's with no level caps?
- Thread starter Orcus The Ultimate
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i played a cheap MMO called Tibia once.. there was no level cap and no matter what; monsters gave you a set amount of XP and after level 150 or so; you could one-hit the hardest creatures in the game and basically own everything... i hated it because no matter what i did; there was always that level 20 with the level 100 gear because they had maybe four sets of the stuff on their main...
/facepalm
/facepalm
RPG's without levels? my friend; i dont know if this counts; but have you tried picking up one of the monster hunter games? again; im not sure it will qualify and I hope it does... but regardless; you play a hunter... your quest is to save the village from progressingly difficult monsters... blah blah blahLimaBravo said:
I like RPGs where when you've finished, you can max at everything from every class. Can do everything good. Oblivion is a good example. I don't like to have to choose what I'm good at.
I did put in a caveat to say that I was over simplifying to make a point and then went on to saythe antithesis said:
''levelling up has become a very integral part of the genre and RPG'ers expect it in the same way that shooter fans expect guns, iyswim?''
So your quote there is a little out of context to my whole point.
And levelling up clearly brings 'something', since many people enjoy it I guess for those of us who do enjoy it, what it ''brings to the table'', is fun.
/ thread101194 said:
The levelling system in RPGs is meant to represent a skill, from a complete idiot to a god. ( 1 - 100 )
The point of a level cap is stop you from becoming way to powerful in relation to the 'monsters' in the game... if there was no level cap, the game would be super easy. (you might as well have god mode on)
Although in theory it is possible for monsters to level up with you forever, this would defeat the point of a levelling system as the monsters would always be about the same level as you.
I am asking for something deeper than "fun." That is a shallow answer. What we need is to look at leveling up objectively and recognize what it is, what it does, and how it effects gameplay. Then we can examine it with greater clarity. So what does leveling up actually do?Jenova65 said:
(NOTE: and since you've already repeated the point, I'll say that I don't care that many people enjoy it. That is without substance. I am more interested in why they enjoy it and "because it's fun" says nothing)
It depends. Some games play well with level caps. It adds a new element to your RPG experience. In my experience, games that have low level caps, like Fallout or Oblivion, are more flexible with your leveling. You can pick any skill to level no matter your class. They do it so that when you play the game through a second time, you can have a unique experience. So the level cap is part of the challenge in those games. You want to sepnd your attribute points wisely. I don't think this is bad, just different.
Usually, with games that have extremely high level caps, I rarely get up to it. Even if the cap is level 99, I'm probably not going to play the RPG that long anyway. But these games tend to have a more set leveling tree. You can't specialize in everything. If you can, then I think that's a mistake on the game designers part. FF does this a lot. If you level up enough, all your characters can have all the powers. It makes them all the same character, they are no longer unique. For me, this is a flaw in the design, because as I level, I will do this just because I like to complete grids. It's an uncontrollable urge for me, probably some strange compulsive disorder, but as such, by the end of the game, all my characters are the same.
But sometimes games with essentially no level caps can be amusing to play as well.
Usually, with games that have extremely high level caps, I rarely get up to it. Even if the cap is level 99, I'm probably not going to play the RPG that long anyway. But these games tend to have a more set leveling tree. You can't specialize in everything. If you can, then I think that's a mistake on the game designers part. FF does this a lot. If you level up enough, all your characters can have all the powers. It makes them all the same character, they are no longer unique. For me, this is a flaw in the design, because as I level, I will do this just because I like to complete grids. It's an uncontrollable urge for me, probably some strange compulsive disorder, but as such, by the end of the game, all my characters are the same.
But sometimes games with essentially no level caps can be amusing to play as well.
Disgaea is an excellent example of a crazy ass game with essentially no level cap, and so many different skills you can learn that it gets kind of ridiculous at the end. But if you really want to play a game where you can deal like 500k damage to some beastie, then this is your game. I'm fairly certain I played up to around level 1,900 or so. But Digaea is a Strategy RPG. It can get away with this because each playing field is randomly generated and there are ton of options on how to clear the field. I can't even fathom playing FFX to level 150, let alone level 1,000. Gah! The battle system wasn't that interesting!kaziard said:
i know that NCsoft are toying with the idea of no level cap in guild wars 2, as you level the enemies you fight also level to your groups average so there is always a challenge. but really the levels are there to keep it balanced dispite some RPGs messing it up.
don't care. I like a levelcap to keep it interesting, and a lack of levelcap because you can own.
like with Bioshock(I know it has no level system, hush), when I went back to Medical pavillion and beat the first big daddy with only a wrench.
like with Bioshock(I know it has no level system, hush), when I went back to Medical pavillion and beat the first big daddy with only a wrench.
No limits. Online, the levels should mount slower (as in 1 level every few months) and have less consequence.
Some of the monsters have a lower bound on their levels, and perhaps there's a slight level lag between you being able to kill them and them starting to catch up with you. Also, you get more abilities when you level up, which is a huge incentive.the antithesis said:
