Poll: RPG's with no level caps?
- Thread starter Orcus The Ultimate
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Star Ocean has had its level cap at 255 which is complete overkill (unless you are fighting the super boss who will still rape you if you are level 255)
You are arguing for argument's sake, you are trying analyse a gaming experience for other people, a game only needs to be fun, that isn't shallow it is a simple thing because that is all it needs to be. I enjoy it because there is a part of me that feels pleasure when I do it, I don't feel anything beyond that, why do I need to? Because it's fun may say everything, we are discussing something subjective, unquantifiable. I have a real life outside of games, we don't need to over think this.the antithesis said:
Game - 1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime.
That is what I play for.
I like a level cap. Otherwise, you can level your character until you have all the skills/talents and then what? You keep leveling just for the mental satisfaction that you leveled up again. I like a level cap better because it makes choosing skills/talents more important because if there isn't a cap then it doesn't matter what skills/talents you pick, you'll get them all eventually anyway.
Will do!the antithesis said:
Spirit of the Century has no advancement by default. You can tune the power levels up or down when you start but there's no fixed procedure for changing character stats in play. The idea is that pulp superheroes don't really get stronger over time, they just have adventures.
Primetime Adventures doesn't have character advancement. The closest thing to it is that you get to rewrite your character sheet after each season (it's a game about stories with an explicitly TV-show-style structure), but that's changing what your character is about, not how "powerful" you are. Character effectiveness is defined by a single "spotlight" stat that rises and falls based on a predetermined track (like, you all sit down at the beginning of play and say, "Okay, I want to designate these sessions as the ones where my character is in focus, and I'll be more of a supporting guy in these sessions"). The reward mechanics are based around the players giving each other temporary bonuses for stuff they think is cool.
In In a Wicked Age, the only stats that can go up over time are attached to concepts rather than characters. Characters start each session with a fixed distribution of scores, which get depleted during play and then reset to their starting values next time you play that character. The reward mechanic is about making your character the underdog so he can come back in the next session.
Polaris has one stat that grows as you do stuff, called Zeal. Zeal lets you power through conflicts to get your way, basically. Then when it hits its peak it changes into Weariness and starts creeping back down again. And when it is back down to zero you will betray everything you stand for, so you'd better get busy dying before then.
There are games explicitly designed for short-term play that similarly don't have traditional advancement, as well, but I'm sure that's hardly surprising.
I don't think the Baron Münchhausen storytelling game from the 90s had any kind of advancement mechanics, either. I'm pretty sure I never saw a rule for improving character stats in Everway.
-- Alex
I am attempting to dissect what leveling up entails, how it works and why people find them engaging. To respond to questions to that effect with "because it's fun" offers no insight or understanding and tells us nothing about leveling up and what makes them compelling. It is a shallow answer that is not very helpful.Jenova65 said:
That ends the conversation right there, doesn't it?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Well once you hit the level cap it should get funner right? Such as in WoW. No level cap would be bad since it would only be good for those people who have time to play the game all day. So it would only reward you if you play more. Thats not what games should be. Whether you can only play 20 min a week or 20 hours you should be able to be the same level of skill as everyone else.Orcus_35 said:
No level caps. (by that i mean being able to max all of your skills, because there will always be a cap)
I like being able to crush everything that stands in my way.
It also adds some kind of dynamic difficulty. When you're not good enough to defeat your enemies, you can just level up until you are able to (and by not good enough i mean because of player skill and not the stats. If it's because you need to be at a higher level, that's just poor design). If you like to have a challenge, you can just skip encounters and stay at a low level. If you don't like that (or it's just not possible without missing out on a lot of the content i.e. sidequests) the game should give you the option of level scaling.
Some have also mentioned that no cap would make all characters the same at higher levels, which could be avoided by having a class based system.
Which would basically be like ME1 without the level cap.
In ME1, a higher difficulty setting would scale enemies to your level and add immunities, forcing you to fight strategically and it also had different classes to choose at the start.
I like being able to crush everything that stands in my way.
It also adds some kind of dynamic difficulty. When you're not good enough to defeat your enemies, you can just level up until you are able to (and by not good enough i mean because of player skill and not the stats. If it's because you need to be at a higher level, that's just poor design). If you like to have a challenge, you can just skip encounters and stay at a low level. If you don't like that (or it's just not possible without missing out on a lot of the content i.e. sidequests) the game should give you the option of level scaling.
Some have also mentioned that no cap would make all characters the same at higher levels, which could be avoided by having a class based system.
Which would basically be like ME1 without the level cap.
In ME1, a higher difficulty setting would scale enemies to your level and add immunities, forcing you to fight strategically and it also had different classes to choose at the start.
This is a wicked loaded question. At some point you have to put a cap on just how strong the player can get in order to avoid either making the game way too easy (with static enemies) or inevitably unbalancing your game in favor of warrior-type DPS-loaded characters (Morrowind and Oblivion, I'm looking squarely at you.)
The level cap has to be high enough to encourage a sense of progression (Fallout 3 without Broken Steel, or even WITH Broken Steel, pleasure to meet you, 30's not enough and 20 is just a joke), but not so high that Infinity Plus One Swords are part and parcel.
The level cap has to be high enough to encourage a sense of progression (Fallout 3 without Broken Steel, or even WITH Broken Steel, pleasure to meet you, 30's not enough and 20 is just a joke), but not so high that Infinity Plus One Swords are part and parcel.
Well. I guess there's a cap on them so the developers can update the game from time to time. If there wasn't, then people would best any monster they come across. Thus making it boring and/or unfair when the next patch comes out.
No level cap = For people who need a nice ego-rub, since eventually nothing in the damn universe of the game could stop you
Level cap = For people who actually enjoy a challenge
Level cap = For people who actually enjoy a challenge
WoW is just 1 example, there are plenty other rpg's that aren't massive, and others that are only on singleplayer...jebus4you said:
There is no need to be sarcastically polite! You asked me a question, I answered (from my point of view) I am not looking for philosophy in levelling up, OK? Some people enjoy it some don't, it isn't complicated it is like trying to work out why a lot of women prefer doing cross stitch and watching soppy romantic films, cross stitch makes me want to tear my hair out at the roots, I can't define for you why it does, it just presses my buttons, not in a good way.the antithesis said:
Regarding levelling up, OK, let's get back on topic with it. What purpose does it serve? None, in many ways it is pointless this has been proven by games that require no levelling up at all. It is however a mechanic of very many RPG's to the degree that a large proportion of RPG'ers expect it it, they find the levelling system a fun part of the game, chasing Thundaga or some such spell/skill that an enemy is weak to, to better enable them to defeat that enemy. Sure we could come equipped with everything we need to do that at the beginning, but surely you can see why it is more fun to learn it as you go along? Unless you don't like RPG's in which case it begs the question why join in the thread asking if we prefer level caps or not? (which is the point of the discussion, not whether we should get rid of levelling up or keep it) To 'dissect', it further (although I am not sure it needs dissecting, tbh) Levelling when the enemies level with you - Well if they are levelling too, what IS the point? They are going to hit harder, faster and for longer, surely we need a better healing skill than we did at the start. It has a purpose, it provides an enjoyable element to the game for those of us who enjoy it, in the same way that performing a skilled move in a fighting game does for those who enjoy that. If that is it's only purpose and it works then that is all it needs to do, it does not need to provide substance for lengthy debate. I clicked on this thread vote that I don't like level caps, regardless of anyone else's view, I still don't, my mind has not been changed by any argument it doesn't mean I don't see why others don't like it. However if you prefer a level cap or having to choose between one skill set or another it is simple, stop levelling when you feel you know enough and the game is still a challenge as my son does and it works for him.
We are just different
To beat the game yes, but to kill all the secret bosses? Sorry, but my FF raping father still hasn't taken out Emerald Weapon (altough he has beaten every other ridicu-enemy from FF7 to FF12 excluding 11. Oh and I remember the days when RPG's were on paper and happily continue the tradition. I'm actually getting Serenity RPG game going. Due to the immense freedom compared to AD&D its actually quite hard to write for.manaman said:
True dat, quite often the gear your getting gives better bonuses then the actual level, thats why weapons have level caps.muffincakes said:
