Poll: School District about to Get Sued

[Lunar_Knight]

I think hes absolutely in his right (Its in the constitution after all)
Its his Graduation ceremony and I see no reason why they MUST PRAY at it, last time I checked payer or religion wasn't essential to ones graduation? And then to do it in such an underhanded way after initially doing the right thing is a disgrace...
And for a Teacher to publicly slander a student like that in the manner she did? She needs to be fired and sued to show that not only is it not legally acceptable but morally too. Might put other teachers off the idea of doing such things again.
Now I have no problem with Religion, people have the right to believe in what they want, but must practice it in ways that the respective ways of their countries government see fit and in a way as not to single out or force it on other people like they have done in this situation.

I have an awful lot of respect for this guy, and think he has done the right thing in this event public sectarianism and bullying.

Religious people always seem to do this, Try to squash anyone that thinks differently through sheer harassment and bullying.
And why Women seem to be incredibly religious (Especially in Christianity) is beyond me...
I hope they do know this is in the bible:
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."
-- Timothy 2:12

Now I myself just had my graduation ceremony last night and there was a heavy religious presence with the local priest and quite a few prayers said at it but alas I don't think the Irish Constitution is as religiously accommodating as others. So just last night I had to essentially go through with what this young man has saved himself from doing.

And seeing as I come from Ireland, probably one of the best global examples of religious hatred and why Government bodies should never buddy up with Religious institutions. This along with many other examples throughout the world show why Governments should have nothing to do with religions and should enforce rules like these on those who dont follow them, after all it dosnt stop them from praying in their Churches or their houses it simply stops them marginalizing other people, a school should never make a student feel threatened or un-welcomed like this, after all its their place to prevent bullying of any form.

 

[Bags159]

I don't see what's the big deal. Kid seems like a whiny brat, gettin all upset because he's afraid of seeing other people talk to imaginary friends.

People should be allowed to pray whenever they wanna pray. And people should be allowed to not give a fuck when they want to not give a fuck.

It ain't the job of the law to give you freedom FROM shit. It's the job of the law to give you freedom TO shit.

Except for the fact it's illegal for schools to actively encourage / hold / support prayer. So yeah, it actually is the job of the law to give you "freedom FROM shit".

 

[Lyri]

My reasoning behind it is that it?s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn?t Christian.

Really?
Praying isn't emotionally stressing at all, if you don't believe then it's no more than saying lyrics to a song or a poem.
As an atheist myself, build a bridge and get over it.

 

[Danik93]

By God, that guy is a prick. I mean really now--he's supposed to be a rational man, so why's he sticking his fingers in the entire school's pie? Would it have killed him to just tell a teacher somewhere, or just plain not do it? If it's the school's custom, who's he to say otherwise?

Because it was against state law...

OT:
As some people have said, as long as the school don't organize a prayer it's fine to pray in school.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

My thoughts? Why should I care? If I was an atheist I still wouldnt give the slightest damn if people started praying, its none of my business, its just tradition, so Im just all like "whatever, I shouldnt care"

 

[Maclennan]

Its wrong to have a prayer during a ceremony where all students are supposed to be included when the school is supposed to be secular. If any public high school were to hold prayer during graduation the entire board would loose funding. The kid may of made himself public enemy number one in what ever town but it was legally the right thing to do. Although staying home and getting the diploma mailed to him would of earned fewer enemies since it seems the towns people ironically haven't taken the moral high ground. If they want a prayer ceremony there must be a church willing to organize a private prayer session with a real priest for all the grads and their families.

Both Universities I have attended are still allowed to hold prayer while receiving substantial public subsidies, I had to go through one university graduation and I felt so out of place I will not be attending my final one.

 

[lord.jeff]

I read the article and it was a little confusing me, seriously why was the entire thing in bullet point, but it sounds like the kids parents disowned him because of admitting he's atheist, which is a way big problem in my book. I do think he was in the right to request the school not to have prayer, legally they're not supposed to plus it sounds like he was the most mature person in the whole thing.

 

[EvilPicnic]

Whether it's morally right or not is beside the point here; the prayer was illegal in the US and the student pointed it out as he had every right to do. It's not a moral/ethical/religious point, it's a legal one. And there is a right and a wrong.

The fact that the schoolboard complied to the request so quickly demonstrates that they were in the wrong.

What I find despicable however, is how the teacher demonized and vilified her student for standing up for himself. How very unprofessional. And unChristian.

 

[coolkirb]

Depends here in Canada Cathlic schools are protected under the constitution act of 1867, and no body wants to re-open the constitution, some people may get pissed off about it but honestly anybody can go to the cathlic schools if they want and their is the public alternative, also it would be a real pain to dismantle the system and its more trouble then its worth.

Also the very idea of completly seperating church and state is imposible to achieve, honestly I atheist are just whineing a whole lot, its a prayer, deal with it, it being gone wont make the world a better place.

 

[BRex21]

I personally went to a school with mandatory daily prayers, and i hate things like this. It really puts you in the position of do you become a social outcast or do you fake a religion, and for this reason the United States (and Canada where i live) made the forced prayer against the law.
I will never understand the mentality of prayer as universally good or that forcing someone to go through the motions of a religion being beneficial for them as opposed to creating resentment and hate between people.
Personally i wish i had stood up and took my school to court as opposed to droping out and getting a GED.

 

[KiKiweaky]

Well at the end of the day theres a law there that provides protection against this sort of thing, so the guy is entitled to request that it not be done. I wouldnt be botherred if they did or didnt say a prayer when I was there and I certainly wouldnt threaten the school board either.

Either way you have to commend him for having the balls to pursue this, I know I wouldnt.

 

[EvilPicnic]

I read the article and this is a religious school to man is attending to.

If it was a religious school I might agree with you, but no, it's a public school:

http://www.mpsb.us/education/school/school.php?sectiondetailid=76&

And according to to US law, school prayer in in public schools is unconstitutional:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

Therefore the student is well within his rights to protest, as he did in the form of a letter. What is wrong is for his teachers, school, family and friends to ostracise and vilify him for this.

I personally find a great amount of comfort in praying and I do so whenever there is something buggering me

I'm an atheist, but if something was buggering me, I might turn to prayer too.

 

[Dino_B]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed. This kid did the right thing by raising awareness, but should have left it as a choice then, that is to say those who want to pray should be allowed to and if he/she, and others, do not wish to they don't have to. Now a bigger can of political/religious tension has opened up since the school now cannot have a prayer. So yeah, good job on raising awareness, but having the school pull the prayer for everyone presents problems for those wish to.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

I think within the context of the graduation ceremony it's wrong and inappropriate.
Prayer shouldn't be part of a secular school's activities.
How many of those christians would be willing to be part of a satanic rite while graduating ?

 

[Bags159]

My reasoning behind it is that it?s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn?t Christian.

Really?
Praying isn't emotionally stressing at all, if you don't believe then it's no more than saying lyrics to a song or a poem.
As an atheist myself, build a bridge and get over it.

Yeah, it's not emotionally stressing at all to be "that guy". Nothing like being the only kid out of hundreds to not pray.

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed. This kid did the right thing by raising awareness, but should have left it as a choice then, that is to say those who want to pray should be allowed to and if he/she, and others, do not wish to they don't have to. Now a bigger can of political/religious tension has opened up since the school now cannot have a prayer. So yeah, good job on raising awareness, but having the school pull the prayer for everyone presents problems for those wish to.

But it's not legal for schools to hold / encourage / support prayer.

 

[odd function]

My thoughts? Why should I care? If I was an atheist I still wouldnt give the slightest damn if people started praying, its none of my business, its just tradition, so Im just all like "whatever, I shouldnt care"

The trouble is not only the whole captive audience angle, but also the fact that schools do their best to create a group identity for the students. They call it a variety of things like school pride, but ultimately they creating a members/non-members environment in the school and clearly supporting one team over another. Americans wouldn't tolerate it if it was any other religion, why should anybody be asked to tolerate it if it is christianity?

As an aside, it isn't "just a tradition" and few things are. Words and actions have meaning. By the second grade I new that there was a vast gulf between reality and America's supposed ideals, because we were asked to "pledge allegiance" in class. Even in cases where you were allowed to not do the ceremony (frighteningly rare) there was still intense pressure to conform, and it wasn't like you were left alone to do your own thing (like read) during that time.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed. This kid did the right thing by raising awareness, but should have left it as a choice then, that is to say those who want to pray should be allowed to and if he/she, and others, do not wish to they don't have to. Now a bigger can of political/religious tension has opened up since the school now cannot have a prayer. So yeah, good job on raising awareness, but having the school pull the prayer for everyone presents problems for those wish to.

If it was individual students praying on their own, from their seats, i would agree with you. But a group prayer led from the stage is an entirely different matter. Even if it's a student leading the prayer, if it's from the stage, it has become a school sponsored prayer, and is therefore unConstitutional for a US public school. Again, i'm a Christian, not an atheist, so i'm not against prayer, but i am for the law, and especially for the separation of church and state.

What really amazes me is how many "Christians" forget that the separation of church and state was designed to protect Christians originally, but has extended in principle to other religions and to atheists.

 

[babinro]

The act of prayer in and of itself is completely harmless and acts as a stress reliever for some. There's no reason to restrict prayer to certain locations only.

Forcing people to take part though is just wrong though and seems contrary to the intended benefits of prayer to begin with.

 

[Snotnarok]

It's the same thing as another story I saw. This group insisted that if evolution was going to be taught it had to be taught along with "Creationism" and all textbooks that had evolution it, had to have a disclaimer reading:

"Evolution is a theory, not a fact, and students are encouraged to make their own conclusion"

And religious citizens attacked evolution being taught saying "it's a theory and there's no proof that makes it a fact and there never will be proof" Yeeeeeeeeeet there is proof. Yet a combination of denial, not being up to date with facts, brought up a meeting in the county where they had to put the disclaimer in text books about evolution being a theory.

 

[EvilPicnic]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed.

Those that want to pray can still pray, as long as it is a private prayer. That is the purpose of times of silence and reflection at these events.

For a prayer to be lead aloud from stage a) implies the schools endorsement, and b) can lead to pressure to conform and join in when individuals may not want to. That is why it is unconstitutional in the US.