Poll: School District about to Get Sued

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Midnight Crossroads

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Jul 17, 2010
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The laws of the US say they can't do that shit. It may be a dick move to ruin everyone's fun, but, when it's your damn Constitutional rights being stomped on, you be a dick about it. Sacrificing your rights to be a nice guy or for social harmony is fucking stupid.
 
Jun 5, 2010
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jigaboon said:
Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.
right on dude, i was just about to say pretty much the same thing
You two are both correct. that kid is a grade A douche, and lol at "friendly atheist" site all the comments were about donating to the kid to help his cause of undermining religions, but i mean since there all "friendly" i guess they were doing it out of kindness.
 

manaman

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Lone Skankster said:
This man is a hero.

Not because he got prayer taken out of a ceremony, but because he stood up for his constitutional right to be free from Religion.
You don't have a constitutional right to be free from Religion any more then you have a constitutional right to not be offended by anything.

If the school was forcing people to pray that would be a problem, if the school was endorsing and leading prayer (which it probably is) then it's a problem as well. Should the school simply be offering a moment of silence for people to pray then it's not a problem at all.

I am basically atheist, but when I sit at the table with my surrogate family each thanksgiving I bow my head and stay silent while they pray.
 

hipster666

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Dec 13, 2009
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Hmmm, I can see both sides of the argument here. In the video shown the girl is clearly leading a prayer, but she's a student ASKED to talk. At what point does right to believe bevome right to inhibit other's beliefs? At the end of the day, the majority of students at least give lip service to god at that school and while it would be wrong of the school to make a prayer mandatory, can't the students just do what THEY want to do?

I was brought up a roman catholic and survived the experience with a healthy atheist belief system. These days I merely ask my family, when being involved in religious ceremonies to respect my own beliefs so I can attend such events but without feeling I need to compromise myself. My sister was very nice and even asked the priest if I could forgo the traditional vows for my niece's christening to make my own promises and he was also very respectful. Everyone GOT that I love my nieces and would do everything I could to ensure their well being and education, but I didn't have to state I would do this with god's guidance. Everyone was happy, no-one had to subjigate their beliefs. I just don't get why the argument always has to be so combative?
 

AgentNein

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Jun 14, 2008
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Active Schizophrenic said:
jigaboon said:
Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.
right on dude, i was just about to say pretty much the same thing
You two are both correct. that kid is a grade A douche, and lol at "friendly atheist" site all the comments were about donating to the kid to help his cause of undermining religions, but i mean since there all "friendly" i guess they were doing it out of kindness.
They're not trying to undermine religion. In fact, this school is trying to undermine the constitution.

No one's saying that prayer itself is wrong. Just the fact that a public and government institution organizing a prayer for graduation is illegal (and wrong). And it is. At least in part because it contributes to an air of oppressiveness to anyone there who isn't a Christian. I don't know if you've been to the bible belt, but that air does NOT need any more contribution.
 

ryo02

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Oct 8, 2007
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you just know some of these "good" christians have called for his death by now urgh scum bags
 

Vuljatar

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Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.

EDIT: I don't believe in God, but to take prayer away from someone who does, is just fucking wrong. If you think people saying a prayer out loud, in a public school/setting is wrong or it's 'forcing religion down your throat' then you need to get over yourself and find something better to do.

When I read this part, it really angered me.

-'My reasoning behind it is that it?s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn?t Christian.'-

Get a life.
As strong of an atheist as I am (indeed, sometimes I'm an anti-theist), I agree that this is ridiculous.
 

JJMUG

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Jan 23, 2010
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Sober Thal said:
UnmotivatedSlacker said:
HT_Black said:
By God, that guy is a prick. I mean really now--he's supposed to be a rational man, so why's he sticking his fingers in the entire school's pie? Would it have killed him to just tell a teacher somewhere, or just plain not do it? If it's the school's custom, who's he to say otherwise?
Psst, it's a public school, it's illegal for the school to set it up.
jigaboon said:
Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.
right on dude, i was just about to say pretty much the same thing
You are aware of Separation of Church and State right?
Yeah, it's 'against establishment of religion by law'.

No one is making a law saying you have to pray. Did you read the article??
"School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it (tells) members of the audience who are non-adherents that they are outsiders," wrote Justice John Paul Stevens in the majority opinion.

Three strike and your out. But hay what do Supreme Court rulings mean to you, your gonna sit here and claim the majority is right and discrimination against Athesits is ok.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm#when

Active Schizophrenic said:
jigaboon said:
Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.
right on dude, i was just about to say pretty much the same thing
You two are both correct. that kid is a grade A douche, and lol at "friendly atheist" site all the comments were about donating to the kid to help his cause of undermining religions, but i mean since there all "friendly" i guess they were doing it out of kindness.
Man I hate being right.. who am i kidding I love being right. Because i can look up articles (Supreme Court rulings no less.) that show you to be nothing more then bigots.
 

EvilPicnic

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Sep 9, 2009
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Sober Thal said:
Yeah, it's 'against establishment of religion by law'.

No one is making a law saying you have to pray. Did you read the article??
Did you? Really? Because the law is pretty simple. And the school was breaking the law.

Legal precedent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman

To quote Justice Kennedy:

There are heightened concerns with protecting freedom of conscience from subtle coercive pressure in the elementary and secondary public schools [...] What to most believers may seem nothing more than a reasonable request that the nonbeliever respect their religious practices, in a school context may appear to the nonbeliever or dissenter to be an attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce a religious orthodoxy
What the school tried to do was illegal. The student asked that they conform to the law and when they backed down, they defamed him in the local paper, which lead to ostracism from his family.

The law is on his side.
 

JJMUG

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Jan 23, 2010
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Vuljatar said:
Sober Thal said:
What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.

EDIT: I don't believe in God, but to take prayer away from someone who does, is just fucking wrong. If you think people saying a prayer out loud, in a public school/setting is wrong or it's 'forcing religion down your throat' then you need to get over yourself and find something better to do.

When I read this part, it really angered me.

-'My reasoning behind it is that it?s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn?t Christian.'-

Get a life.
As strong of an atheist as I am (indeed, sometimes I'm an anti-theist), I agree that this is ridiculous.
I agree a Public School doing something that is illegal on both the state and federal level is ridiculous.
 

Russian_Assassin

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Apr 24, 2008
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In Greece prayer is mandatory, for some reason. I never attend though. I enter when it's over and we go up to our classes. I believe the guy did the right thing.

Oh and whoever posted this, thank you, you just made me procrastinate for 5 hours, because that page linked to another page and that other page linked me somewhere else etc. I ended up reading stoner comics on 4chan!
 

kickyourass

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Apr 17, 2010
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As long as it isn't mandated by the school itself, or your own prayer ceremony doesn't involve killing something I have no problem with prayer in school. But this specific instance is a case of the former so yeah, I kinda have a problem with it.
 

numbersix1979

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Jun 14, 2010
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Mcmuffin said:
I think The reason most people disagree with it is because when you dont believe something but everyone around you is doing something like praying but you dont it feels incredibly awkward and uncomfortable. Imagine being a devout christian graduating from a school where they do a Muslim prayer at the end of it.
There's a myriad of reasons to be against public school in prayers, and just as many for as well. However, this argument doesn't strike me as particularly effective. I, for example, went to a school were someone lead a prayer, yet no one was forced to do it. You were only forced to adopt a 'prayerful attitude', which is to say assume a reverent and silent tone for a few moments while the prayer was lead; if not for your own individual beliefs, than out of respect for the beliefs of others.

The example of a Christian graduating from a school with Muslim prayer at the end of the ceremony is equally flawed. A true Christian would be highly respective of tradition at work and, while they may or may not physically participate, would definitely not call for Muslim prayer to be ended at that particular school. Now this is not to say I'm 100 percent in support of prayer in schools, I'm just saying the 'federal courts have struck it down' argument is much more effective than the one quoted above.
 

Ken Sapp

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Apr 1, 2010
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May I suggest you rewrite your poll question or include more options. As it stands while I write this it is asking whether prayer is permissible in schools. But from your opening post I think you are trying to ask whether public schools should sanction prayer.

My take on the situation is that any public school may not endorse any religion by including prayer. However, the students are perfectly within their rights to pray if they so wish. I find it hard to sympathize with the guy when if it were a Muslim or other "minority" religious prayer the ACLU would be crying just as loudly if not louder that we shouldn't dare infringe on their religious freedoms.
 

JJMUG

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Jan 23, 2010
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Ultratwinkie said:
Mechanix said:
The kid in the article did the right thing.

Who are you to say he is a prick? Prayer in school is illegal because it singles out those not of the same religion. It is a PUBLIC SCHOOL, a place everyone is FORCED to go to unless they pay hefty sums of money to go to a private school. Graduation is a special time, and if everyone except him is praying, he is going to be uncomfortable.

What's most infuriating is the teacher who said he should "just keep his mouth shut". Yeah, that's the spirit, just don't say anything that will make people upset, just stay repressed. I guess she hasn't seen the first amendment recently.
He wasn't required to pray, therefore its technically not against the law.
A Public School is not allowed to endorse religion. A Public school is not allowed to lead in prayer, it is in the states laws and its in Federal laws, is it hard for people to understand? and again.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm#when
 

TheDanielG

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Feb 9, 2011
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I go to a Jewish school and we do have Christians in it. We have a half hour prayers evey morning and you have to attend but you don't have to pray. The teachers respect those who are atheist or Chrstian. If the majority of the school was Christian or it was a CHRISTIAN school ie they did Bible studies or what not, then he was wrong. It depends on how "Christian" the school is. And American law is stupid, just a fact.
 

Dense_Electric

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Jul 29, 2009
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What I love is all the atheists bitching about how the religious people are forcing their beliefs on them, so they turn around and try to push a law through preventing the religious from practicing their religion. So basically it's unacceptable for someone else to tell them what to do, but totally okay for them to tell someone else what to do. I'd like to shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Now as for the actual issue - okay, now I agree, a school really shouldn't be pushing a prayer over on its student body, fair enough. Moment of silence in which the individual can do as they please, fine, prayer, probably not. But you know, making a big deal out of it and getting the ACLU and the government involved is fucking overkill for something that really doesn't matter.

You'd think a functioning human that was secure in their own beliefs could just sit there respectfully for thirty seconds and let the religious say a few brief words, but this guy is apparently not that. He's an immature little kid who can't stand it that other people have different opinions from him and therefor tries to force his beliefs on them under the defense that they're forcing their beliefs on them. He is creating far more of a problem than the one that already exists.

I guess it's also worth pointing out that the Constitution (since he brought it up) also guarantees that Congress cannot make a law preventing someone from practicing their religion, so his defense doesn't hold up on that basis either.

Now why don't we just have a "moment of silence" like I suggested and everyone can stop accusing everyone else of pushing their beliefs while they do the same thing.
 

Mcupobob

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Jun 29, 2009
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It was a dick thing to sue the school but its about time something happen. When I was in primary school we had to say pray after the pledge of allegiance with the whole under god deal there(Which isn't even in the original poem it was added in the 50's!). Oh and after I got off of school the bus would drop me off at church were a lady would hand out fliers and pamphlets and little booklets about god. After getting home Jehovah witness would knock on our door. I understand peoples right to religion but what about my right not to be brainwashed into it form day one of school.