Poll: School District about to Get Sued

[Fluffyz0r]

It is ok as long as no one is forcing you and there are no retribution for not doing it.


I live in Israel FFS we started studying the old testament from the 3rd grade till the 8th- i have no participated in 1 class. i took my time when i was 16 to read and study (LIKE any other book ) the old and new testament.
Im and atheist
Im not anti religion, IMO in a society torn apart from the inside everyone should have something to believe in (i believe in science and other people), i do think everyone has the right to practice any religion, if they choose so.


Im sorry to say this (i feel like im throwing sh*t at a fan) but Atheism is degrading and is forming sects, and its own extremists, its becoming a whole new mainstream religion.

1 simple rule; never force your opinion on anyone else no matter how right they seem to be.

 

[TripleDaddy]

It's too bad there aren't any buildings specifically designed for people to go and make wishes to an invisible man who lives in the sky.

 

[EvilPicnic]

What I love is all the atheists bitching about how the religious people are forcing their beliefs on them, so they turn around and try to push a law through preventing the religious from practicing their religion.

The Justices and others who have shaped this aspect of US law into how it is today have been mostly religious and predominantly Christian, actually, going back to Thomas Jefferson.

I think you should take a closer look at the Establishment Clause and the legal precedents surrounding it. It is as much for the protection of Christians just as much as it is for Jews, Muslims and Atheists.

Have a read and educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer#Controversy_in_United_States

And your tone doesn't sound very compassionate and Christian, btw. WWJD? Well, He wouldn't 'shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun' for starters.

 

[Metal Brother]

Seems fine to me.

I went to a Church of England Primary School, even though I'm pretty much agnostic now I can still pull most of the Lord's Prayer from memory.

Never messed me up.

Absolutely agreed. People need to frikkin relax, whether they are Christian, Muslim, athiest, or whatever. Should prayer be required in public school? No. Should prayer be allowed? Why the hell not?

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

As long as they ain't Nazis or scientologists, I don't see why you can't express your beliefs publicly.

(predictable joke is predictable)

 

[JJMUG]

What I love is all the atheists bitching about how the religious people are forcing their beliefs on them, so they turn around and try to push a law through preventing the religious from practicing their religion. So basically it's unacceptable for someone else to tell them what to do, but totally okay for them to tell someone else what to do. I'd like to shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Now as for the actual issue - okay, now I agree, a school really shouldn't be pushing a prayer over on its student body, fair enough. Moment of silence in which the individual can do as they please, fine, prayer, probably not. But you know, making a big deal out of it and getting the ACLU and the government involved is fucking overkill for something that really doesn't matter.

You'd think a functioning human that was secure in their own beliefs could just sit there respectfully for thirty seconds and let the religious say a few brief words, but this guy is apparently not that. He's an immature little kid who can't stand it that other people have different opinions from him and therefor tries to force his beliefs on them under the defense that they're forcing their beliefs on them. He is creating far more of a problem than the one that already exists.

I guess it's also worth pointing out that the Constitution (since he brought it up) also guarantees that Congress cannot make a law preventing someone from practicing their religion, so his defense doesn't hold up on that basis either.

Now why don't we just have a "moment of silence" like I suggested and everyone can stop accusing everyone else of pushing their beliefs while they do the same thing.

It does not matter if the majority is christian in a PUBLIC SCHOOL, they do not get their way.

The laws that you laugh at are setup to Prevent Discrimination against those who do not follow the Majority's views. No law as been passed like that. No Atheist pushes laws that make you stop praying in private or in churches/ temples. Stop making stuff up.

He did not get the government involved he pointed out that in his state he practice is no legal.

He is not immature for standing up for the law, unlike you who can not even make an argument, instead just throwing out insults.

He is not forcing his lack of beliefs, The law is on his side.

You are in fact a bigot(you are adhering to your own prejudices and options. ie crying about laws that do not conform to your world view.) , and discrimination against Atheist should not be tolerated, yet it is.

This is no different then any other minority standing up for their rights, unless discrimination against those who are Atheists is ok, and again it is not.

Seems fine to me.

I went to a Church of England Primary School, even though I'm pretty much agnostic now I can still pull most of the Lord's Prayer from memory.

Never messed me up.

Absolutely agreed. People need to frikkin relax, whether they are Christian, Muslim, athiest, or whatever. Should prayer be required in public school? No. Should prayer be allowed? Why the hell not?

Because Public schools are not allowed to endorse a single religion is that hard to understand?

 

[6037084]

Religion and schools should be kept as far away from each other as possible

 

[Baron Von Evil Satan]

If they don't mention a specific prophet then it should be completely acceptable. The term "God" refers to a singular deity, not Jesus, Muhammad, or any other religious figure. The majority of religious folks are part of a religion that is monotheistic, thus they praise a singular figure, referred to as God, which is why the phrase "One nation under God" is allowed to remain in the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools. Many people hear "pray" and think Christianity, but the act of praying is simply offering thanks to, or asking something of, your God, who/whatever it may be.

To offer another point, no one is forcing you to pray. If you don't believe there's a bearded man in the sky then don't talk to him. If you're firm in your beliefs then everyone else praying shouldn't bother you at all. Let people believe what they want.

The Valedictorian speech is a different issue. They're not employed by the state, school, or government, nor is school in session while their speech is being given. As such they are more than welcome to thank, or praise whoever they like during their speech. You may not agree with what they say, but, again, no one is forcing you to agree. If their speech is (or seems) to be offensive, or abusive towards a group you are a part of (in this case atheists) then it is a matter to be brought up with the person, not the school district.

 

[Belated]

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/20/this-district-is-about-to-get-sued/

I was Browsing Fark and i saw this article. it blows my mind that prayer is still such an integral part of a schools graduation ceremony when it has been deemed illegal several times by the supreme court. I myself am an Atheist, however i do believe people are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe in private, in public especially places built by and paid for by the Federal Government religion has no place. Your Thoughts?

Um, I hope you didn't mean by the bolded statement what it sounds like you mean. I'm not letting you segregate me to my house only. If I want to display my affiliation to the gods in public, I'm going to do so. And that's my right that nobody will take from me as long as I'm alive. You think it's bad when we force our beliefs on you? Don't be a hypocrite. I shouldn't have to hide my religion from people. Or do you not remember what happened the last time religious people were forced to hide it? Yes, I went there.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

We have separation of church and state for good reason.

Do what you like in private, but keep it out of the schools.

His reasoning for the suit is a little silly, but good for him anyway.

 

[Fwee]

It looks like this guy was perfectly within his rights to try to remove the public prayer from a graduation ceremony in a public school. This nation has a little law about the separation of church and state, which I'm glad is also known as the "Tough Shit Rule".
Private schools have the right to all the prayer they desire, because they don't receive public funding.
Slightly unrelated note:
I find it funny that many people say "Let them pray, who's it gonna hurt?"
And many people also say "They can be gay, as long as they're not flamboyant about it."
How about "They can pray, as long as they're not flamboyant about it." and "Let them be gay, who's it gonna hurt?"
Personally, if my graduation would have featured a religious waste of my time, I would have completely lost my shit. And I would have been within my rights as a student of a public school.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

It's a PUBLIC School, so no they shouldn't pray. Though I could care less about what Private religious schools do, but a public school is PUBLIC.

See this is why we need a proper separation of church and state, I'd hate to see America have an "official religion" like the UK.

 

[Bags159]

What I love is all the atheists bitching about how the religious people are forcing their beliefs on them, so they turn around and try to push a law through preventing the religious from practicing their religion. So basically it's unacceptable for someone else to tell them what to do, but totally okay for them to tell someone else what to do. I'd like to shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Now as for the actual issue - okay, now I agree, a school really shouldn't be pushing a prayer over on its student body, fair enough. Moment of silence in which the individual can do as they please, fine, prayer, probably not. But you know, making a big deal out of it and getting the ACLU and the government involved is fucking overkill for something that really doesn't matter.

You'd think a functioning human that was secure in their own beliefs could just sit there respectfully for thirty seconds and let the religious say a few brief words, but this guy is apparently not that. He's an immature little kid who can't stand it that other people have different opinions from him and therefor tries to force his beliefs on them under the defense that they're forcing their beliefs on them. He is creating far more of a problem than the one that already exists.

To offer another point, no one is forcing you to pray. If you don't believe there's a bearded man in the sky then don't talk to him. If you're firm in your beliefs then everyone else praying shouldn't bother you at all. Let people believe what they want.

It's the law that PUBLIC schools are not supposed to endorse religion. It's not preventing you from practicing your belief; it's preventing schools from mandating prayer. I have no problem with you practicing your beliefs, but it's ridiculous to waste school time on prayer.

Yeah, it's seriously overkill to get the government involved when a school is fucking breaking the law. The nerve of some people. Just because you don't agree with the law doesn't mean you get to ignore it.

Who says he's not secure in his beliefs? I'm secure in my beliefs, but it would have been awkward as hell to be one of the few to not engage in a school mandated prayer at my high school. I can't imagine being an athiest in a school mandating prayer in the bible-belt. /shudder

 

[Extraintrovert]

It's too bad there aren't any buildings specifically designed for people to go and make wishes to an invisible man who lives in the sky.

I know, right? Maybe something should be done about this. Like... I don't know, religious organisations purchasing land (completely tax free, of course) and building their own specialised facilities for this sort of thing. Maybe have a sign out front that says "Church of [insert denomination here]", or a big symbol on the front or the roof, like a cross or whatever that particular religion considers holy. Maybe there could be laws that guarantee religions have the right to establish places such as these and practice their beliefs without interference. Warp, maybe even if they get enough money they can establish their own schools, where they can determine policies such as this.

Unfortunately, until such a time the religious are forced to break the law and continue to practice their beliefs in public schools, forever at the mercy of those evil atheists, never given a moment's respite from their desire not to be exposed to bullshit.

...What the fuck did I just type?

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Student who complained is a dick. What did he/she/it expect when they called the superintendent and threatened to call the ACLU if the school didn't make changes to the graduation ceremony?

"...emotionally distressing on anyone who isn't a Christian?" Really? This kid is the worst kind of Atheist: the kind who hyperventilates at the thought that someone nearby might be thanking God on one of the biggest days of their lives.

This man is a hero.

Not because he got prayer taken out of a ceremony, but because he stood up for his constitutional right to be free from Religion.

You added two new letters there. It's freedom 'of' religion, not freedom 'from.' The kids aren't being forced to go to church the day of graduation.

I agree that prayer isn't a big deal. If you don't believe in a god, then you believe they're just talking to themselves. However, Religion has no place in an institution of education. The emotional ties one has to their religion brings to much of a bias into the system.

It's a graduation ceremony, ie the biggest day of these kids highschool careers, of their entire education careers up to that point. Hell, the school itself has enough problems making sure everything goes off without a hitch without some anal-retentive kid threatening them with action from the ACLU if they don't change shit to accommodate them.

So he's a hero to you, even if he's hated by his community? And all because he was unreasonably demanding that his constitutional rights be followed to the letter rather than the spirit of the law? I can only imagine how ecstatic you get when WBC pickets military funerals. After all, they're reviled by the community, but they're celebrating freedom of speech. They must be heroes!

 

[Mcmuffin]

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/20/this-district-is-about-to-get-sued/

I was Browsing Fark and i saw this article. it blows my mind that prayer is still such an integral part of a schools graduation ceremony when it has been deemed illegal several times by the supreme court. I myself am an Atheist, however i do believe people are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe in private, in public especially places built by and paid for by the Federal Government religion has no place. Your Thoughts?

Um, I hope you didn't mean by the bolded statement what it sounds like you mean. I'm not letting you segregate me to my house only. If I want to display my affiliation to the gods in public, I'm going to do so. And that's my right that you cannot take from me. You think it's bad when we force our beliefs on you? Don't be a hypocrite. I shouldn't have to hide my religion from people. Or do you not remember what happened the last time religious people were forced to hide it? Yes, I went there.

Right that didn't really come out the way i wanted it too, what i meant to say is that its not appropriate for a school to lead the prayer, just like it would be innapropriate for me to walk into a classroom and say "there is no god" directly to the face of a devout christian, everyone should be able to believe what they want to believe but they should nto be able to use publicly funded places to further those beliefs, like schools, rec centers, and places like that. I dont think one should be persecuted for your belief god, or Buhdda or whatever you believe in as that would be incredibly hypocritical of me.

 

[Mechanix]

I go to a Jewish school and we do have Christians in it. We have a half hour prayers evey morning and you have to attend but you don't have to pray. The teachers respect those who are atheist or Chrstian. If the majority of the school was Christian or it was a CHRISTIAN school ie they did Bible studies or what not, then he was wrong. It depends on how "Christian" the school is. And American law is stupid, just a fact.

A jewish school is a private institution, the school can mandate whatever it wants because it isn't a public school. I don't know why a christian or atheist family would send their kid to a school like that, but if they had an issue with it, then they could just go to public.

It has nothing to do with how christian a school is. A public school shouldn't do anything religious. It isn't a stupid law either, how would you feel if a school you were forced to go to required prayer to a deity you didn't believe in? People really did have to ask themselves that question many years ago, and that's why the law is in place.

 

[Bags159]

"...emotionally distressing on anyone who isn't a Christian?" Really? This kid is the worst kind of Atheist: the kind who hyperventilates at the thought that someone nearby might be thanking God on one of the biggest days of their lives.

1.) Live in Bible-Belt
2.) School assembles for prayer
3.) Every single student besides you is praying

At what point can this not lead to emotional distress?

So he's a hero to you, even if he's hated by his community? And all because he was unreasonably demanding that his constitutional rights be followed to the letter rather than the spirit of the law? I can only imagine how ecstatic you get when WBC pickets military funerals. After all, they're reviled by the community, but they're celebrating freedom of speech. They must be heroes!

Using this logic we shouldn't enforce speed limits either because they're hated by the community.

Is there a rule like "godwin's law" for comparing someone trying to uphold the law to the WBC?

 

[Kopikatsu]

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Matthew 6:5-7

Even the Bible doesn't agree with the school. I'll enjoy watching Bastrop High School burn

Um, I hope you didn't mean by the bolded statement what it sounds like you mean. I'm not letting you segregate me to my house only. If I want to display my affiliation to the gods in public, I'm going to do so. And that's my right that you cannot take from me. You think it's bad when we force our beliefs on you? Don't be a hypocrite. I shouldn't have to hide my religion from people. Or do you not remember what happened the last time religious people were forced to hide it? Yes, I went there.

If you're Christian...well...see the above verse.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Poll question is silly. Individuals praying in school is fine- I've done it. But that's not what the article is about. The article is about a school-organized prayer that alienates any non-Christians, including Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. That shit is illegal and not okay. If it were a private institution, things would be different, but it's not.