Poll: School District about to Get Sued

[eggmiester]

I do agree with the kid, but the Friendly Atheist website is full of it.

exactly dude. also: i know it's against the law and all, but just because one or two people didn't want to say the prayer, doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to express their faith.

i mean, i'm atheist, and i know yer man meant well, but this is probably gonna be that classes last chance to be together in one place for a long time- and they wanted to have a chance to pray for everyone's safety and for everyone to get on well in life.even if yer man didn't beleive in god, he could at least given 'em a chance to wish each other luck, ya know?

BUT, the way the school reacted to yer man removing the prayer... 'wince', did it all wrong. makes me want to... ah jesus, i don't know which one to agree with!

 

[sunburst]

The civil rights of black people in America is an entirely separate issue. Forgive the expression, but you can't look at the things in black and white terms. In this case, it would have been a few minutes of listening to something he didn't agree with. You can't liken that to decades of slavery and persecution, and is perhaps an insult to those that have suffered because of it.

I didn't liken listening to a school-sanctioned prayer to a history of slavery and racism. I likened it to walking a few more feet for a drink of water. As for a proper comparison, atheists have a long history of being shunned, denied basic rights, arrested and murdered for their lack of faith. People don't talk about it because discrimination against atheism has always been acceptable even by people opposing religious intolerance.

 

[Bags159]

Sad. A waste of time and money. All on the emotions of a single hormonal teenager, who considers his own feelings to be of greater importance than the people around him.

This, is only sad.

Yeah, upholding the law is extremely sad. Damn hormonal teenagers; why won't you think of the greater good?!?!?1

Yes. Why doesn't he think about the greater good.

Laws are there for the protection of people. Is he really in need of protection from prayer?

You can't ignore a law simply because you don't believe he needs its protection. Sorry.

Why not? Laws are for the protection of people. People aren't for the protection of laws.

Because this is highly opinionated; I believe he needs protection, you don't. A lot of things aren't horribly objective.

Protection from what? It looks like he's already decided against Christianity. I don't think a few minutes of prayer will forcibly convert him.

Because nothing bad could ever come out of being the only student in a school located on the bible-belt to not pray.

 

[spartan231490]

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/20/this-district-is-about-to-get-sued/

I was Browsing Fark and i saw this article. it blows my mind that prayer is still such an integral part of a schools graduation ceremony when it has been deemed illegal several times by the supreme court. I myself am an Atheist, however i do believe people are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe in private, in public especially places built by and paid for by the Federal Government religion has no place. Your Thoughts?

EDIT:Imagine the poll says "is it okay for a public school to lead a prayer?" im a newb dont know how to change poll.

It's perfectly legal and perfectly fine for their to be prayer in school, so long as it isn't mandatory. suck it up kid, there are worse things in life than sitting/standing through a prayer during your graduation.

 

[spartan231490]

The civil rights of black people in America is an entirely separate issue. Forgive the expression, but you can't look at the things in black and white terms. In this case, it would have been a few minutes of listening to something he didn't agree with. You can't liken that to decades of slavery and persecution, and is perhaps an insult to those that have suffered because of it.

I didn't liken listening to a school-sanctioned prayer to a history of slavery and racism. I likened it to walking a few more feet for a drink of water. As for a proper comparison, atheists have a long history of being shunned, denied basic rights, arrested and murdered for their lack of faith. People don't talk about it because discrimination against atheism has always been acceptable even by people opposing religious intolerance.

Denied basic human rights, arrested, and murdered for their lack of faith. When? I'm honestly curious, because I can't recall a single incident when Atheists were the target of discrimination. I'm sure it happened all the time in the Mid-eval era and before that, but in modern history?

 

[Auxiliary]

Depends on what sort of school it is. I think a public school should avoid any religious happenings, while a catholic / protestant / muslim / etc school has the right to include religious happenings in their program.

 

[skywalkerlion]

If it's an individual doing it, why the hell not, if it's a group, than that's different. I'm not sure why this guy is making such a big deal, he could just not pray, but w/e.

 

[sunburst]

Denied basic human rights, arrested, and murdered for their lack of faith. When? I'm honestly curious, because I can't recall a single incident when Atheists were the target of discrimination. I'm sure it happened all the time in the Mid-eval era and before that, but in modern history?

Torcaso v. Watkins [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins]: Maryland tried to revoke the appointment of a notary public because he refused to declare a belief in the existence of god. The case was appealed all the way to the US Supreme Court because Maryland courts continually ruled in favor of the law.

It was of course unconstitutional but such laws were common until the late 19th century. Several states technically still have them even today. And some idiots actually attempted to invoke one a couple years ago. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/critics-say-atheist-nc-city-councilman-unworthy-seat/] But they only did it to make him look bad. Because he's an atheist.

No arrests or murders in the news in the last century or so. Atheists have definitely had it much better than ethnic minorities in modern times.

 

[Necrofudge]

If its forced and publicly endorsed by a federal institution, then no. It's breaking the law. They can take a moment of silence but thats about it. You want to pray during the moment of silence? Well, fine, do it.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

There is what is called "The Seperation of Church and State", and it is considered illigal to conduct anything religious within (for example) an Educational Facility. This man is very brave, but he also has the government behind his back 100%. They are not aloud to hold any type of prayers, even if they have been doing it for a 100 years since they were a wooden shed, Thomas Jefferson predates them and he wrote the Seperation to the Baptists long before.

Also from a personal stand point? It is EXTREMELY wrong to present any type of religious ideals within a school anyways. A child or teen should develop their own ideals, not be influenced by the ideals of where they have grown, that is borderline conversion and it sickens me.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Wow, I shall pray in school Monday just to prove a point!!!! And i go to a relatively Jewish majority school...I'll be so bad ass > and have a good cause!

 

[Raistlinhawke]

To have prayer in public, tax-payer funded schools is to endorse religion. This extends to anyone employed the school leading a formal prayer within a classroom context. A government body, and thus its branches and services, is not in the business of placing one form of thought or reasoning above another, beyond that which can be proven/not proven by scientific and academic means.

Even if a moment of prayer was all-inclusive, donating prayer rugs from Muslim students and other props, it is still placing a moment of importance on theistic belief, and in doing so placing it above non-theistic thought. This is not a war of personal comfort on either side, but of principle. Even if no one is hurt or offended by an action, we aspire to a federal system of placing all ideologies and backgrounds on even footing.

 

[wynnsora]

I only get upset when I'm told I have to pray like everyone else. I believe in something, a god and a goddess and have a different prayer. My sister gets upset because she's not quite an atheist but she doesn't believe in a god. She believes we as humans use our own power to shape the world as we know it. Basically we're team gurren and that's how we roll philosophy.

 

[googleback]

the question "is it ok to pray in school" of course it fucking is?

Something I hear a lot is how Atheists are so oppressed. (i'm not religious by the way I'm an atheist too) we're fine? but we (like every other belief) need to shut the hell up every now and again because its making mountains out of molehills!

just one big resounding SHUT UP to all sides really. To each their own for crying out loud...

 

[roostuf]

yes, its a public area, you have the right to pray there as long as it does not interfere with the school teaching.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I can't recall a single incident when Atheists were the target of discrimination. I'm sure it happened all the time in the Mid-eval era and before that, but in modern history?

No arrests or murders in the news in the last century or so. Atheists have definitely had it much better than ethnic minorities in modern times.

Try harder man, ive researched two murders as it is. One committed by a teenager.

http://digg.com/news/offbeat/Murdered_for_being_an_atheist

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2010/06/27/indianola-police-charge-16-year-old-with-murder/

Thats page freaking one of google. I mean hell im not gonna lie the racial lynchings make this look like spit in the ocean but seriously. These were two people. One murdered by a sociopath in the name of god. Its scary reading.

 

[sunburst]

Try harder man, ive researched two murders as it is.

Well damn. I was going off the top of my head. Probably should've jumped on Google.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Well, as long as the school isn't forcing kids to commence in prayer whether or not they are religious it's ok.

 

[Small Waves]

Sad. A waste of time and money. All on the emotions of a single hormonal teenager, who considers his own feelings to be of greater importance than the people around him.

This, is only sad.

Yeah, upholding the law is extremely sad. Damn hormonal teenagers; why won't you think of the greater good?!?!?1

Yes. Why doesn't he think about the greater good.

Laws are there for the protection of people. Is he really in need of protection from prayer?

Laws are also in place to prevent discrimination. Prayer shouldn't be seen ANYWHERE outside of private schools.

But this isn't a case of discrimination. No one said, 'Leave the room whilst we pray.' In fact it's inclusive. It's an invitation to share the experience. The statement 'Prayer shouldn't be seen ANYWHERE outside of private schools.' is far more discriminatory.

You got me there on the first point, but it still doesn't excuse to fact that it's against the law because public schools get money from the taxpayers and not from the students or the parents who are sending them to school. They are, by law, not allowed to force the student body to engage in any sort of religious practice or even teach it. This applies to every faith, whether it be related to Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Hindu, a strange cult that praise raccoons, etc.

We have thousands of private religious schools around the country. If you want your graduation ceremony to incorporate a religious belief, enroll your child in a private school. They are not paid by the state because they are affiliated with a specific faith.

 

[tomme69]

Why wouldn't it be okay. You have the right to practice your freedom of religion wherever you please , plus its not like your disturbing anyone !