Poll: Should UK police be given guns as standard issue?

[Burs]

Being an American and far removed from the riots, I'd like to know what the UK equivalent to the American S.W.A.T. team is called.

Also, while the consensus here seems to be favor not giving the police firearms as standard issue, what about other nonlethal alternatives? Water cannons and teargas was mention earlier, but there's also paintball guns that shoot special "pepperballs", rubber bullets, "bean bag" shotgun rounds, and of course the FN 303. I'm not saying that the police should feel free to open fire on crowds with "nonlethal" weaponry or that accidents won't happen, but it'd probably be a sight better than just arming them with batons and pepper spray.

First point: the British Equivlent is a mixture of the Unarmed Raid & Response, the Majority of Armed Police are given raid training (apart from MOD Police and CNC)and for the trickier situations CO19 are sent in although CO19 are trained alongside UKSF so are really only used in dire circumstances.


Second point: We dont want the City to become a police state; the Home office Police forces have always been about Defending the people in regard to the law, so firing off water cannons and shots into crowds might catch folk that might not have actually commited a crime (even if they were planning to)


Source: Former Special Constable and glad he left last year.

(ps I do like the idea broadcast on the radio though of using paint instead of water =3)

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Violence begets violence, no.

Then explain what the hell is going on in London?

The police have been extraordinarily passive and these thuggish goons have exploited it mercilessly.

Look throughout history of weak Neural countries like Belgium living next door to bullies like Nazi Germany. What happened there?

I've been on the receiving end of bullying and being passive and conciliatory only makes you a target! It only stopped when frankly I made friends with tough guys who were willing to use threats of violence to get it to stop.

I don't think it's just a black and white issue. This country is a fucking mess, and people are pissed off. Some of them, I am sure, have a reason, and many of them, I am also sure, don't.
I sit somewhere in the middle. I don't condone it but I'm also not going to talk out against it.

But what you're saying is you compromised your ideals of peacefulness because it meant your life was easier? How fucking pathetic.
I've also had to deal with bullying, and now I am about as peaceful as they come, it still makes me an easy target, yet I refuse to compromise on that, and that extends to our police force. This may have started with a gun, but it doesn't have to end with more guns, that would only make things worse.
Plus, perhaps you should read 1984. I have always been wary about Politicians. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. We already have zero privacy, CCTV absolutely everywhere, an armed police force is the next step and I'd rather not see it go that way when it really doesn't need to.

Who said black and white? There is a continuous spectrum of being more weak and being more taken advantage of.

"But what you're saying is you compromised your ideals of peacefulness because it meant your life was easier? How fucking pathetic."

I didn't compromise my ideals, my friends who stood up for me are not bullies, they were kind and decent to me. But they were just willing to threaten and use force against unwarranted aggression that I was not willing to and did not ask for.

I don't have tough friends any more. Frankly, I am an isolated loner and I don't know how to stand up for myself. Why do I lack this confidence? Bullying? Probably.

"This may have started with a gun, but it doesn't have to end with more guns, that would only make things worse."

HOW?!?!? How can you deal with armed gunmen other than with guns!!?!?!

I've read Orwell's 1984 and you are focusing far too much on the superficial like CCTV and not the central tenements of 1984's government and society.

Bullying may be the cause of it, but yeah, you let it defeat you. You're now an isolated loner because you let it get to you. Those who belittle others are the insecure ones. I was bullied too man, I'm no more violent or well-equipped to stand up for myself than you are. I just know well enough that those who belittle others are the ones who are in the wrong, and thus still have the strength to be outgoing. Yeah it took me a while to get there, but don't give up on it, don't compromise. Holding on to your ideals is far more important than people realise.

 

[Aiden_the-Joker1]

This whole thing started because of guns do you really think they will help? What if one of the many people evacuating their homes through the crowds gets shot? The police don't want officers with batons going into crowds as that is likely top make them more violent and you want them to head in with guns? Why don't you just send the military in to really calm the crowds down?

 

[ben117]

If we arm the police a standard issue than the criminals will respond by getting more guns themselves.

 

[AmrasCalmacil]

We already have armed police officers, they have to have far more training and such and can be armed with assault rifles, or with more training, sniper or battle rifles to be used for marksmanship. In London there's CO19 who you might want to look up.

 

[uberhippy]

No,

There are sufficient amounts of well-trained, highly specialised units that carry firearms, If a situation deems it nessasary then there are people to deal with it.
Any average police officer could not possibly complete the level of training nessasary to properly manage the responsibility of a firearm, why impose this responsibility when it isn't nessasary. - most people would (hopefully) agree that guns should be an absolute worst-case-scenario, and the vast majority of street officers would never encounter any situations that would require such devastating power.

Police act based on nessesity, and this kind of excessive force for all police in not a nessesity.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Any English people getting pissed off after reading this thread?

I don't think this is something people from other countries should have an opinion on without knowing anything about our country and culture, seriously, just because "it works" (which it probably doesn't entirely) for some other countries, doesn't mean England needs it.

I feel so safe in this country, and just because everybody hears of a riot (like the only time i've heard of buildings being set fire to etc in my lifetime) they suddenly jump to conclusions that this is an every day occurance in England and could happen often, when really you should know its not because it's a major news story.

Please, take into account hardly anybody in England wants guns, just because you have them and you feel safe around them just because you've been brought up with them, doesn't mean we want them, imagine you being in the same position first.

 

[Treblaine]

Bullying may be the cause of it, but yeah, you let it defeat you. You're now an isolated loner because you let it get to you. Those who belittle others are the insecure ones. I was bullied too man, I'm no more violent or well-equipped to stand up for myself than you are. I just know well enough that those who belittle others are the ones who are in the wrong, and thus still have the strength to be outgoing. Yeah it took me a while to get there, but don't give up on it, don't compromise. Holding on to your ideals is far more important than people realise.

Are you a teacher?

Because I've been told this before and they're right it does get better. When I left school! Where I wasn't forced to share the same air as those 2-legged hyenas!

The meek get pushed around; you can run away & hide, or you can stand up to them & risk becoming like them.

I think you're just lucky that circumstances mean you don't have to deal with them any more. But who dealt with them? Where did your intimidators go? How much are you benefiting from the oppression of those who oppressed you?

I know and appreciate those who with the authority and self-control to stand up to and stop the thugs, the bullies, the psychos who just want to destroy everything. But I'll tell you who made it so unbearable was the pacifist teachers who never did a thing to stop it.

I appreciate those who stand up for me and all the little guys and put a stop to it. Do you?

 

[Smokej]

it would kinda result into this

military grade hardware with live ammunition belongs only into the hands of soldiers or trained special units of the police force

that being said, you should deploy more real anti-riot equipment like baton guns, water cannons and tear gas, the police here in Germany uses them in riot situations and we aren't a police state by any means

 

[Mr Grey]

I personally don't think that the police force in the UK should be given firearms as standard issue, as in America.

The reason is simple - it would be too much power given too quickly. We have already seen what happened when police were given tasers in the UK - most of them used these weapons responsibly but deaths were caused by those abusing this new power. Arming the police force as a whole would only lead to more avoidable deaths.

This being said, the UK police service is woefully under equipped. I believe that more armed officers are needed. Perhaps all officers of experience and exceptional character should be given firearms as standard issue, in addition to the select few elite officers in the armed response unit.

 

[Herbsk]

American here - just so you all can add this one your stereotypes!

Police should have guns - both for their own safety and to protect against criminals who do not and will not operate under society's laws. If the criminals are better armed than the police, it makes it that much more dangerous for a police officer to do his job in a safe manner. And considering they put their lives on the line to protect us (even though we don't always appreciate them or want them there) they should have the means to defend themselves. Pepper Spray is of limited value against an AK-47 or a similar weapon.

I should mention however (given some of the replies above) that not every police officer should be given an AK-47 or Grenade launcher - for one, they don't have the training for that, and for another, those kinds of weapons are not needed for every crime that occurs (not every crime is that severe or dangerous).

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

No.
That is a ridiculous idea.

Police shouldn't have that power over normal civilians, and since we haven't ever had something liek that, a lot of accidents would happen.

Not to mention cost of training and the firearms themselves, police are already suffering from cuts.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

All police should have guns.

Police keep order through respect.

Most people respect the badge. Everyone respects the gun.

Or something along those lines.

 

[xXAsherahXx]

The UK police doesn't get any guns? That's weird. Our police get guns.

Our riots get struck down incredibly fast because we know how to properly kick somebody's ass.

...with bullets and electricity.

You can't defend yourself with a stick unless the person attacking you is unarmed. And that's only a one on one fight (or kung-fu movie). In a riot, you are fucked.

 

[lacktheknack]

General question I have: How are the police supposed to protect themselves from gang members shooting at them? This isn't rhetorical, clearly there's SOME method of self defense.

 

[FernandoV]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019225/Kelly-Thomas-Police-beat-taser-gentle-mentally-ill-homeless-man-death.html

Because giving police lethal weapons is always a great idea.

Wow, that's revolutionary, you found an example of someone abusing something. Holy shit, case closed.

 

[orangeban]

General question I have: How are the police supposed to protect themselves from gang members shooting at them? This isn't rhetorical, clearly there's SOME method of self defense.

Armed Response Teams. When a shoot out stats, regular coppers shoot off and the Armed Response Teams come in (think SWAT teams). We also have helicopters, armed cars, snipers ect.

 

[Vault Girl]

The death of Ian Tomlinson at the G20 riots last year just show how much one police officer can screw up the reputation of others but willingly and brutally attacking a defenseless person, because they think the situation warrants it.