Poll: Skyrim: Empire or Stormcloaks?

vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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Hades said:
flying_whimsy said:
If I had to choose, I would begrudgingly pick the Empire if only for the fact that the stormcloak rebellion was being used by the dominion to weaken the empire.

To be honest, I never bothered with the civil war quests (read up on it, though). I think it was probably the weakest part of the story when it could have been the strongest. There was so much potential for intrigue, battles, and backstabbing. Also, I was playing as the damn dragonborn: I should have been crowned emperor and lead a newly united empire against the dominion.
I hear that last option being suggested a lot but I never quite got it. I'm not the biggest lore nut when it comes to the Elder scrolls but I don't think its ever said that every Dragonborn is related which would be something that would have made the Skyrim Dragon born a Septim capable of being crowned emperor. I also don't recall hearing how the Septims got emperor because of being a Dragonborn. They got to be emperor thanks to a huge gollum and plenty of armies.
Tiber Septim, Talos, was a Dragonborn Nord. He lost his Voice early on in his military campaigns when someone cut him across the throat but he certainly did have the same gift that we see in the player character ingame. After that, his Empire concurred much of Tamriel and parlayed with the living gods of the Tribunal in Morrowind who gave him Numidium, the Dwemer Tower of Walk Brass, as a gift. He then used this to complete his conquests of the world.
 

flying_whimsy

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Hades said:
Well, I was thinking it wasn't really a birthright by just being dragonborn, rather that being able to control dragons and having saved the world from oblivion you could just take the throne. Would have made for a much more engaging story and a longer game: something I honestly think the game would have had were it not for the limits of the last console generation (I was also expecting more from the dwemer stuff, probably as a big dlc). Also, the nords had a major reverence for dragonborn and would have been far more likely to follow the player character as opposed to that jackass they had in charge.

So basically, if the player can kill what was essentially the lord of death they could easily have just taken the crown: the nords would have been more inclined to follow from their history and the empire would have probably welcomed a dragonborn to help deal with the threat of the dominion. Like I said, way more interesting.
 

vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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LifeCharacter said:
Hades said:
I hear that last option being suggested a lot but I never quite got it. I'm not the biggest lore nut when it comes to the Elder scrolls but I don't think its ever said that every Dragonborn is related which would be something that would have made the Skyrim Dragon born a Septim capable of being crowned emperor. I also don't recall hearing how the Septims got emperor because of being a Dragonborn. They got to be emperor thanks to a huge gollum and plenty of armies.
I don't think the point is that being Dragonborn makes you an inheritor of the Septim dynasty or inherently worthy of being the Emperor, I think the point is that the Dragonborn is an incredibly powerful being who defeated the World Eater and could potentially be friends with the new king of the dragons.[footnote]Only if they make the right choice though, and everyone else can have fun with hanging out with fucking Delphine.[/footnote] All of those things tend to make becoming Emperor seem like a rather simple task, especially if you already assassinated him and the guy who hired you, leaving the empire without a leader.

vallorn said:
That's all well and good, but isn't it pointed out that the Empire literally did nothing to actually ban the worship of Talos until the Stormcloaks decided to throw a fit about how they couldn't do so loudly and openly? At which point the Justiciars came to Skyrim to enforce the treaty and the ban themselves? Add that with the idea that the Empire's supposedly building up its strength to start another war with the Thalmor, and such a thing's likely not going to happen if they have to throw resources away dealing with the Nords' tantrum and lose what Skyrim provided to a racist asshole dancing along to the Thalmor's tune.
Let's be fair to the stormcloaks here, when you suddenly ban both a god and one of the most revered Nords of any history there is going to be a lot of anger about it.

The Justicars and Dominion were given full writ to stamp it out as soon as the concordat was signed, the Empire didn't have to do anything because they were forced to stand back and let the Thalmor perform the tortures and hunts of Talos worshipers that we see in Skyrim. This ban and the enforcing of it by Thalmor Justicars in Skyrim, the province most heavily affected by the ban, is what produced the Stormcloak Rebellion, not the other way around.

As well as this, the Imperials have no teeth left, their leaders assassinate one another even without the Stormcloaks in the north and other provinces have flat out left to fight the Thalmor on their own like Hammerfel. The Empire doesn't seem healthy enough to stand up to the Thalmor anymore, especially after the drubbing that they got in the last war and the loss of provinces due to it.
 

The Inquisitive Mug

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Jul 11, 2008
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LifeCharacter said:
Hades said:
I hear that last option being suggested a lot but I never quite got it. I'm not the biggest lore nut when it comes to the Elder scrolls but I don't think its ever said that every Dragonborn is related which would be something that would have made the Skyrim Dragon born a Septim capable of being crowned emperor. I also don't recall hearing how the Septims got emperor because of being a Dragonborn. They got to be emperor thanks to a huge gollum and plenty of armies.
I don't think the point is that being Dragonborn makes you an inheritor of the Septim dynasty or inherently worthy of being the Emperor, I think the point is that the Dragonborn is an incredibly powerful being who defeated the World Eater and could potentially be friends with the new king of the dragons.[footnote]Only if they make the right choice though, and everyone else can have fun with hanging out with fucking Delphine.[/footnote] All of those things tend to make becoming Emperor seem like a rather simple task, especially if you already assassinated him and the guy who hired you, leaving the empire without a leader.

vallorn said:
That's all well and good, but isn't it pointed out that the Empire literally did nothing to actually ban the worship of Talos until the Stormcloaks decided to throw a fit about how they couldn't do so loudly and openly? At which point the Justiciars came to Skyrim to enforce the treaty and the ban themselves? Add that with the idea that the Empire's supposedly building up its strength to start another war with the Thalmor, and such a thing's likely not going to happen if they have to throw resources away dealing with the Nords' tantrum and lose what Skyrim provided to a racist asshole dancing along to the Thalmor's tune.
Where is it pointed out the the Empire was cool with Talos worship as long as Skyrim kept it on the downlow?
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
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Empire tried to kill me, Stormcloaks I could give a rats ass about their cause. Whoever pays the most gets my loyalty, for the war at least. I'll fulfill a contract, then when said contract is up, my services are open to any with the coin.
 

Jaegerbombastic

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Sep 20, 2014
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Stormcloaks for 2 reasons:


1) The Empire tried to cut off my head. If it wasn't for an ancient dragon swooping by and destroying the town my PC would've forever lost his chance to get ahead in life.

2) All of the Empire's talk of needing to unify the Empire and THEN they would fight the Thalmor was hollow as fuck. For all intents and purposes the Empire is already occupied by the Domain. Thalmor agents were openly kidnapping and murdering innocent people with zero reprecussions. The Stormcloaks are far from the ideal alternative, but at least they are actively fighting the Elder Scrolls equivalent of Nazi Germany as opposed to passively sitting back but assuring everyone that no really, we're totally gonna fight them.


I have another question for this thread: how do you think Bethseda is going to treat the events of Skyrim when they make the next Elder Scrolls? My bet is that instead of declaring one side or the other canon they're going to go for a "both sides win" approach: after defeating Alduin, the Dragonborn gets the two factions to compromise and focus all their attention towards the Thalmor. Skyrim remains an Imperial province and dedicates a considerable amount of its people to the Imperial army, but Ulfric Stormcloak becomes High King and Skyrim enjoys considerably more autonomy than other provinces.

By the next Elder Scrolls, Skyrim has not only recovered from the civil war but is also experiencing a reinaissance. The emergence of the Dragonborn and the legalization of Talos worship has lead to a surge of pilgrims coming to the province. However, in keeping with the politics of the Stormcloaks, elves are an extremely oppressed second class citizenry. They have been forced to live in ghettos stricken with poverty, sickness, and heavy crimes. "Disappearances" have become and all-too common occurance as well.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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Jun 6, 2008
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Jaegerbombastic said:
Stormcloaks for 2 reasons:


1) The Empire tried to cut off my head. If it wasn't for an ancient dragon swooping by and destroying the town my PC would've forever lost his chance to get ahead in life.

2) All of the Empire's talk of needing to unify the Empire and THEN they would fight the Thalmor was hollow as fuck. For all intents and purposes the Empire is already occupied by the Domain. Thalmor agents were openly kidnapping and murdering innocent people with zero reprecussions. The Stormcloaks are far from the ideal alternative, but at least they are actively fighting the Elder Scrolls equivalent of Nazi Germany as opposed to passively sitting back but assuring everyone that no really, we're totally gonna fight them.


I have another question for this thread: how do you think Bethseda is going to treat the events of Skyrim when they make the next Elder Scrolls? My bet is that instead of declaring one side or the other canon they're going to go for a "both sides win" approach: after defeating Alduin, the Dragonborn gets the two factions to compromise and focus all their attention towards the Thalmor. Skyrim remains an Imperial province and dedicates a considerable amount of its people to the Imperial army, but Ulfric Stormcloak becomes High King and Skyrim enjoys considerably more autonomy than other provinces.

By the next Elder Scrolls, Skyrim has not only recovered from the civil war but is also experiencing a reinaissance. The emergence of the Dragonborn and the legalization of Talos worship has lead to a surge of pilgrims coming to the province. However, in keeping with the politics of the Stormcloaks, elves are an extremely oppressed second class citizenry. They have been forced to live in ghettos stricken with poverty, sickness, and heavy crimes. "Disappearances" have become and all-too common occurance as well.
They have pulled the all endings approach before. Official canon from ES2 is that all the endings happened simultaneously.
 

Arkliem

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Apr 30, 2015
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I don't think they're going to dragonbreak this. Given the signs of imminent collapse of the Empire, whichever side wins in Skyrim will swoop in to lead the remnants. History is going to be intentionally obscure on which side it was. Just as it intentionally obscured what really happened during Tiber's conquest.


LifeCharacter said:
The Inquisitive Mug said:
Where is it pointed out the the Empire was cool with Talos worship as long as Skyrim kept it on the downlow?
Can't find a quote where it's explicitly stated, but there's plenty to imply it. The Empire worshiped Talos too so they're likely not super thrilled about the banning and wouldn't be very motivated to hunting down worshipers who didn't attract attention to themselves. There's a shrine of Talos in Markarth that most people probably know about except the Thalmor there, and there's another in the middle of Whiterun with a guy preaching in front of it.

Pretty much the only steps the Empire seem to take to stop Talos worship is saying it's illegal and taking down very public shrines of him, and even that seems lax considering, once again, that guy in Whiterun obnoxiously preaching about Talos.
The war ended in late 4e175, the thalmor arrived in 4e176 to enforce the ban(Markarth Incident). The empire is fairly lax on it(I think Alvor mentions it?), but if you get caught by the thalmor or they demand the empire take action on something, they'll enforce the ban.

That guy in Whiterun is actually bribing the guards(You can ask him about it if you talk to him). A bug can prevent him from being imprisoned should the imperials win the battle, but he is intended to be jailed after the battle for whiterun if the imperials win. Likely because he's completely outspoken and they can't pretend they're upholding the ban while he's preaching.
 

Xan Krieger

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Feb 11, 2009
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Stormcloaks obviously, the empire was a bunch of pansies. Who let's some stupid elves tell them what to do? The only thing an elf should ever be doing is begging for its worthless life.
 

vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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MarsAtlas said:
The Inquisitive Mug said:
Where is it pointed out the the Empire was cool with Talos worship as long as Skyrim kept it on the downlow?
To add onto what was said earlier, I recall a conversation in the game where it was pointed out by I believe a Thalmor agent that they're there because the Empire doesn't really do anything to weed out Talos worshippers. I mean, they're clearly in Skyrim for more than just that, but seeing that the Empire is never actually one to persecute Talos worshippers, including the guy who preaches Talos worship openly in Whiterun, and that there's even a quest where a Thalmor wants you to find proof that somebody is a Talos worshipper for them since the city guard isn't helping (its in Markarth I believe) so I think you're meant to believe that the Empire is reluctant to actually do so. Queen Elisif even has you bring a possession of the former High King of Skyrim to a secret Talos shrine, as the king himself was a worshipper.
I said above. The White Cold Concordat doesn't force the empire to enforce the ban, however it gives the Thalmor carte blanche to do whatever they want under the guise of enforcing the ban. And it was that approach by the Thalmor and their heavy handed approach as well as The Empire not being able to do anything to protect it's citizens from their justicars and torturers that fermented the rebellion.

Either way, it's not the ending of the war that benefits the Thalmor, while there IS a war, everyone's eyes are on Skyrim and they can get away with more stuff. When the war is over, Skyrim is united and the Thalmor's opponents are no longer fighting each other which means that alliances can be formed.

It's like the UK leaving the EU, just because the two separate doesn't mean the can't cooperate where necessary.
 

Odbarc

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Jun 30, 2010
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The way was pretty pointless and never really felt like a part of Skyrim more than any other meaningless quests. No one seemed to care except those who already picked a side. No one was affected by this 'war', only soldiers got hurt and neither side had any real merit to be at war.
So I picked the blue armor Stormcloaks.

Basically whats-his-name screamed at a kid until he exploded and that kid was the heir or King. He fought him in honorable combat we're told. All was legal. He probably would have won against any other opponent.
 

kenu12345

Seeker of Ancient Knowledge
Aug 3, 2011
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undeadsuitor said:
It's been awhile since I played so I can't remember all the details but..

...wasn't Ulfric a Thalmor agent? *checks* Kinda [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak].

I was an Empire kinda player anyways, but that kinda sealed the deal. Dormant 'asset' or not.
Hes an asset in the same way that the empire is an asset. He isn't working for them or actively supporting them. Quite the opposite
 

The Inquisitive Mug

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I seem to remember that, now. Thanks, all!

Fijiman said:
I have no preference between the two. However, I do know that the Thalmor can go burn in the unending fires of Oblivion. Fuck the Thalmor.