Poll: Skyrim: Empire or Stormcloaks?

[Arkliem]

I don't think they're going to dragonbreak this. Given the signs of imminent collapse of the Empire, whichever side wins in Skyrim will swoop in to lead the remnants. History is going to be intentionally obscure on which side it was. Just as it intentionally obscured what really happened during Tiber's conquest.

Where is it pointed out the the Empire was cool with Talos worship as long as Skyrim kept it on the downlow?

Can't find a quote where it's explicitly stated, but there's plenty to imply it. The Empire worshiped Talos too so they're likely not super thrilled about the banning and wouldn't be very motivated to hunting down worshipers who didn't attract attention to themselves. There's a shrine of Talos in Markarth that most people probably know about except the Thalmor there, and there's another in the middle of Whiterun with a guy preaching in front of it.

Pretty much the only steps the Empire seem to take to stop Talos worship is saying it's illegal and taking down very public shrines of him, and even that seems lax considering, once again, that guy in Whiterun obnoxiously preaching about Talos.

The war ended in late 4e175, the thalmor arrived in 4e176 to enforce the ban(Markarth Incident). The empire is fairly lax on it(I think Alvor mentions it?), but if you get caught by the thalmor or they demand the empire take action on something, they'll enforce the ban.

That guy in Whiterun is actually bribing the guards(You can ask him about it if you talk to him). A bug can prevent him from being imprisoned should the imperials win the battle, but he is intended to be jailed after the battle for whiterun if the imperials win. Likely because he's completely outspoken and they can't pretend they're upholding the ban while he's preaching.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Stormcloaks obviously, the empire was a bunch of pansies. Who let's some stupid elves tell them what to do? The only thing an elf should ever be doing is begging for its worthless life.

 

[vallorn]

Where is it pointed out the the Empire was cool with Talos worship as long as Skyrim kept it on the downlow?

To add onto what was said earlier, I recall a conversation in the game where it was pointed out by I believe a Thalmor agent that they're there because the Empire doesn't really do anything to weed out Talos worshippers. I mean, they're clearly in Skyrim for more than just that, but seeing that the Empire is never actually one to persecute Talos worshippers, including the guy who preaches Talos worship openly in Whiterun, and that there's even a quest where a Thalmor wants you to find proof that somebody is a Talos worshipper for them since the city guard isn't helping (its in Markarth I believe) so I think you're meant to believe that the Empire is reluctant to actually do so. Queen Elisif even has you bring a possession of the former High King of Skyrim to a secret Talos shrine, as the king himself was a worshipper.

I said above. The White Cold Concordat doesn't force the empire to enforce the ban, however it gives the Thalmor carte blanche to do whatever they want under the guise of enforcing the ban. And it was that approach by the Thalmor and their heavy handed approach as well as The Empire not being able to do anything to protect it's citizens from their justicars and torturers that fermented the rebellion.

Either way, it's not the ending of the war that benefits the Thalmor, while there IS a war, everyone's eyes are on Skyrim and they can get away with more stuff. When the war is over, Skyrim is united and the Thalmor's opponents are no longer fighting each other which means that alliances can be formed.

It's like the UK leaving the EU, just because the two separate doesn't mean the can't cooperate where necessary.

 

[Odbarc]

The way was pretty pointless and never really felt like a part of Skyrim more than any other meaningless quests. No one seemed to care except those who already picked a side. No one was affected by this 'war', only soldiers got hurt and neither side had any real merit to be at war.
So I picked the blue armor Stormcloaks.

Basically whats-his-name screamed at a kid until he exploded and that kid was the heir or King. He fought him in honorable combat we're told. All was legal. He probably would have won against any other opponent.

 

[kenu12345]

It's been awhile since I played so I can't remember all the details but..

...wasn't Ulfric a Thalmor agent? *checks* Kinda [http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak].

I was an Empire kinda player anyways, but that kinda sealed the deal. Dormant 'asset' or not.

Hes an asset in the same way that the empire is an asset. He isn't working for them or actively supporting them. Quite the opposite

 

[The Inquisitive Mug]

I seem to remember that, now. Thanks, all!

I have no preference between the two. However, I do know that the Thalmor can go burn in the unending fires of Oblivion. Fuck the Thalmor.

Spoiler

 

[TakerFoxx]

Empire, though not for ideological reasons. I always play as an evil crimelord character, often a vampire, and keeping imperial connections in place has more long term opportunities than turning Skyrim into a self-contained state.

 

[wings012]

Empire.

Cause the Stormcloaks kinda came off as dicks when I talked with them.

 

[dragoongfa]

Before I start, I am a heavy in roleplaying whenever I play any RPG.

Considering how limited the civil war outcome is I usually go neutral with a slight Imperial bent mainly due to the roleplay decisions I made pre game.

I play an Imperial who really hates the Thalmor and went to Skyrim after killing more than a few Thalmor in the imperial city. The headchopping incident, considering that my character would probably be subject to far worse if he remained in the Imperial city, I would say that he would be lucky if he got his head chopped off.

For the civil war itself the character would be ambivalent, on the one hand the Stormcloaks really hate the Thalmor as well but on the other the Imperials turn a blind eye when Thalmor are killed provided that they started the fight. All in all my character's motto is: Kill Thalmor, Kill Thalmor, Kill more Thalmor and when there are no more Thalmor to kill in a reasonable distance, go drink mead before finding more Thalmor to kill.

All in all, I don't care provided that I am allowed to kill Thalmor in peace, something that both sides let me do anyway.

 

[Summerstorm]

Stormcloaks.

The plan for my character was always: Help the stormcloaks out, then shout Ulfric down and take over. (The shouting him down is apparently accepted for succession, and nobody has better screaming power than the dragonborn - you are practically their messiah-prophet anyway)

And from there, unite back in partnership with the Empire over the years.

 

[Adaephon]

Empire for two reasons:

First, I've always played Argonians so frankly the Stormcloacks can go to the harshest realm of Oblivion for all I care for the injustices done to my proud and noble people.

Secondly, because Brunwulf is the single most sympathetic and likeable character in that game and I am glad to fight to make him the Jarl of Windhelm over Ulfric's dead, bloated, never-gets-cleaned-up-for-some-reason-even-after-he's-been-dead-for-days corpse.

Also the idea of the Nords being the true rulers of Skyrim is utter bunk as the Reachmen/Forsworn, the Dwemer, and the Snow Elves are the true natives who were genocided out of existence by the Nords in the first place so the Stormcloaks don't get a single shred of pity from me.

 

[raeior]

I chose the Stormcloaks not because I found them especially likeable or anything but mainly because the Imperials try to KILL you in the beginning. Why would I help them with anything? I found it confusing as hell that the game offered you the choice to run after your captors.
Looking back at it the Stormcloaks are stupid racists but the Imperials are far from being "good" either so...Allowing the Aldmeri to just capture people they don't like and all that...They pretty much already lost the fight against the elves. Also the emperor is dead anyway *coughs*

 

[The Harkinator]

I chose the Imperials, partly because of the character I was roleplaying but mostly because the Stormcloaks are racist, misguided, and petty.

The character I roleplayed was some far-flung descendant of the Septim dynasty, partially explaining the Dragonborn abilities who was partially aware of his heritage therefore interested in keeping the Empire together to fight the Thalmor, and eventually planning to take over himself. So he wasn't going to pass over the opportunity to return Skyrim to the fold and become a senior figure in the Imperial Army at the same time.

But really it's because the Stormcloaks just did nothing to appeal to me at all. Ulfrics own city has segregated slums for the non-humans and is quite badly crime-ridden, citizens make racist threats to people on the streets without fear of reprisals from the city guards or their neighbours. His goals will end up helping the Thalmor, not as much as the civil war continuing but cutting Skyrim off from the rest of the Empire massively weakens it.

The Empire isn't perfect, but the restrictions on Talos worship weren't even enforced until Ulfric made an issue of it in Markarth. Besides, the restrictions are part of the White Gold Concordat which was the enforced terms of peace. The Empire wasn't in a condition to continue the war, and is obviously planning to regain strength and strike back at the Thalmor. Losing Skyrim would be a massive blow to that.

Any doubts I had about joining the Empire were wiped out when I went to meet Ulfric Manchild and hear his side of the story. He came off as whiny and petty, unable to see the bigger picture. That really came through in the negotiation during the main questions where he was willing to sulk while dragons threatened everything.

Empire all the way, they do the best they can for Skyrim and are planning to strike back at the Thalmor. Ulfric started the war, got lots of people killed, and will just help the Thalmor in the long run.

 

[sageoftruth]

Normally, I sided with the Empire, but historically, lots of civilizations have been set back in a very bad way by foreign occupation. The Muslim empire was ruined by the crusades, and the Chinese cultural revolution along with a ton of China's other historical problems were sparked by it being bullied by foreign powers and entering a period of extreme xenophobia. I may not approve of the Nord way of running things, but civilizations usually work best when they develop independently, as long as they don't shut out foreigners entirely. Foreign occupation simply sparks a fear of foreigners, which leads to very hateful and close-minded development. Then again, the damage may already be done. After all, the Empire's been in power for awhile and the Storm Cloaks seem to be founded on the principle of being anti-Empire. The Stormcloaks may give rise to Skyrim's Cultural Revolution. So, in the end, it seems pretty lose-lose. Hell will break loose if the Stormcloaks run things, but if the Empire stays in charge, it will only allow Nord xenophobia to grow even more.

Still, then there's the matter of the Aldmeri Dominion. If The Empire loses, and the Aldmeri Dominion takes over, things will be much worse. Perhaps I'll side with the Empire. The Empire may not be good for Skyrim's development, but Skyrim cannot repel the Aldmeri Dominion without allies.

 

[Megalodon]

The Muslim empire was ruined by the crusades,

False. While the crusades certainly weren't pleasant and did nasty things to the collective Muslim psyche in the Middle East, the Empire certainly wasn't ruined. If anything the unity forged by Saladin left the Muslim East in better shape than the highly divided collection of Turks the 1st Crusade had faced. Who really ruined the Muslims were the Mongols in the 13th Century. They completely wrecked the place, ended the time when Islam was a beacon of enlightenment and progress in the world and did such extreme damage to the region it arguably still hasn't recovered.

Not that this really disproves your point, but you had the wrong foreign power in this case.

 

[conmag9]

Empire, all the way. I've played two characters to the conclusion of the Stormcloak storyline and I felt dirty inside both times. The constant harping on about how great nords are (while utilizing the unstoppable, decidedly non-nordic power that was my characters without batting an eyelash), the whining over what was clearly a "we're forced to do this, but we won't look to hard" thing with Talos that was buying time to build up forces against the Thalmor, the complete lack of farsightedness...Does Ulfric seriously think that Skyrim alone can take on the Pointy Eared Reich? His ego pisses me off to no end. He's got a thin layer of nationalism overlaying his deep desire to be High King, no matter who he has to stomp into the dust to do it. General Tulius has some degree of cultural posturing, but it's milder and in the end he tries to overcome it, even chooses to retire in Skyrim. Ulfric never grows out of his racist tendencies. The whole "with us or against us" thing he pulled against Whiterun was probably the worst though. Betraying Balgruf made me want to punch Vignar off Dragonsreach, the smug bastard.

Ugg.

With the Empire regaining momentum with a victory in Skyrim, things will be setup to allow other locals to be rallied to the cause. Then the Thalmor can be chucked into Oblivion, preferably literally. We'll see how their so called supremacy stacks up against the whims of a daedric prince. Hermeas Mora owes me a favor, maybe he'll be willing to brain drain the lot of them.

 

[runic knight]

I always was torn on the choice and never really picked a side in my first playthroughs, instead forcing them into peace through the dragonborn questline. Coming back to it years later though, and having explored the world and the lore, I think I side more with the stormcloaks, albeit very tentatively.

The Empire is a shadow of its former glory and it will never rebel against the Thalmor at the current rate. The empire is simply being bent over and is appeasing the Thalmor to cling to peace a little longer. The idea of a united empire being best to fight them back is true, but sadly, it isn't there in the first place. Half want to fight them but are impeded, the other half do not want to fight at all. United, they are not. Instead skyrim is being dictated at from an empire that really has sold them out.The stormcloak's resentment and anger over it are very understandable.

I do understand the idea of those in the empire trying to keep it together and I can even agree there, but the root is too far past saving without radical treatment, and that treatment will not come from within. The Emperor seems more interested in saving his own skin, so any solution would likely have to deal with him and, well, that isn't going to be any less dramatic than skyrim rebelling.

Now the patriotic Nords are assholes, racist and isolationist. Though most seemed to be decent enough folk, tolerant of those who worked hard and earned their keep. Granted, leadership being racist jerks would cause trouble, though Ulfric, for all his appearances, doesn't seem as racist as first glance suggests. Yes there are slums and segregation, and that is indeed bad, but I recall that lore said that existed before him, and that his own actions lessened the segregation and actively improved the living conditions.

Both sides have good arguments and both are full of assholes. I guess I just see the stormcloaks as the more reasonable choice in terms of what the sides are trying to do and what they might be able to do.

 

[Elfgore]

Empire without a doubt. For key reasons.

The Aldmeri Dominion is a powerful, unified force. The only thing that can hope to stop it is a strong, unified force. The Empire is already starting to fall apart, Argonia is gone as is Hammerfell. Leaving High Rock, Morrowind, Orsinium, Skyrim, and Cyrodil. Letting the Stormcloaks take over Skyrim would be condemning almost any hope the of stopping the Dominion.

Not to mention, the Stormcloaks are nothing but a bunch of racist hillbillies, led by a man who only cares about himself and is willing to kill anyone to achieve his goals.

 

[DerangedHobo]

Burn them, kill them all, PRAISE NAMIRA, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

In all seriousness, one's a bunch of racist supremacists, the other one is controlled by a bunch of racist supremacists. But, it is "their" land and the imperials are going down the tubes. I'm all for one world government but the Empire is kinda fubar.

 

[Samael Barghest]

This was a tough choice for me that eventually came down to my playstyle. If i'm leaning heavily on magic, i'll join the Empire so I can get Ulfric's attire and make some bad ass mage armor. If there's no magic, the I join the stormcloaks.

My brother made the choice by going to each other headquarters and listening to them talk. Once he realized the Empire was cowardly curs that took Altmer side only because they couldn't win the war, he side with the Stormclokas for honourable and willing to die for their cause.