Poll: Skyrim: Empire or Stormcloaks?

[Flames66]

If I absolutely had to pick a side, I would choose the Stormcloaks. I am a revolutionary at heart. Fortunately I don't have to. As Dragonborn I made a point of staying out of political affairs. I negotiated only when I had to to defeat the dragon menace. After Alduin was beaten, I retired from politics and war, instead rebuilding Helgen and building a home for my adopted daughter.

My next character will be an honourable former member of the blades who will fight to unite the Empire once more.

 

[09philj]

The morally bankrupt Breton thief and assassin who is my character fights for the Empire because politically stable regions tend to have more shit to steal, and a more multicultural ruler will make blending in easier.

 

[Willinium]

I have finally figured out why I tend to side with Elisif and the Imperial Legion more oftan than not. For my reasonings look no further then the two capitals :Windhelm and Solitude.

I'll begin by discussing Solitude. Solitude is a welcoming place with beautiful architecture and a calm sense of peace and safety pervades the air of the city. The only true problems are those of a Argonian planning to make a raid and a cultural festival being forbidden due to recent events. (Not including Potema here). Jarl Elisif when confronted with the fact that her citizenry is in danger immediatly decided to send help to Dragon's Bridge. She is inexperianced yet passionate, with the help of her court (excluding Bryling?) she will grow to be a truly capable Queen.

Now comes Windhelm, the anchient city of Ysgramor, home of the Stormcloaks and the former citadel of the whole of Skyrim. Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak is a passionate, and I believe good man. He is fighting for those he believes were betrayed and forsaken by an empire that they had served loyally. From the Palace of Kings Jarl Ulfric makes plans for the war with Galmar at his side (Ulfric's housecarl and General I believe) to free Skyrim from the grip of the empire. Now despite my believe that at heart he is a good man, I must sadly say that Ulfric Stormcloak is no King.

For a while now Windhelm's streets have been stalked by a mad butcher killing women again and again with the guards halpless to stop them, spurning offers to help from concerned citizens. The 'Grey' Quarter is a slum (I blame engine limitation for how this appears in game, as it simply appears to be small and cramped instead of a true slum) with no real plans in place for reconcilliation between the people of the city with the concerns from the Dunmer citizenry brushed off by Jarl Ulfric when brought to his attention. My largest issue is the 'rumors' concerning a young child performing the Black Sacrement in his home, with these rumors wildly known and talked about by every citizen of the city, NO ONE attempts to investigate these claims, no one trys to talk to the child, no guard no concerned citizen no investigation for a child SUMMONING THE DARK BROTHERHOOD in the capital city.

This lack of concern and the fact that Ulfric is brushes off the stabability of the city and the welfare of his citizens for his war the reasons that I feel that Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak is no King.

For how can the Jarl be trusted to maintain a Country, if he can not even maintain his own realm?

 

[loa]

I just follow stormcloak guy because his unskipable tutorial is a bit shorter, then I beat up dragons and sell their bones to belethor.

 

[kenu12345]

From the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric:
"Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval
Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran
Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact."

TL;DR - Ulfric was broken by the Thalmor under interrogation and his interrogator is now the Thalmor advisor to the High King (to Ulfric if the Stormcloaks win). In other words the Stormcloaks are, albeit unknowingly, dancing to the Thalmor's tune so siding with the Empire is the only real choice under those circumstances.

You do realize that that same dossier says if either side wins that it would be harmful for the thalmor right? The Thalmor wants to keep them fighting not for anyone to win

 

[happyninja42]

Depends on the background for the character I'm playing. For my Son of Talos character, he was most definitely a Stormcloak. For my rogue characters, I usually avoid the conflict entirely. Same went for my pacifist Priest of Arkay character.

 

[Megalodon]

Empire.

And third, there is a huge difference between the Empire and the Stormcloaks attitude towards the war, the Empire seemed to be scrambling to keep Tamriel as unified as they could so the Thalmor couldn't just sweep through with another war but the Stormcloaks really only ever cared about Skyrim.

Except, the Stormcloak quests don't really bear this out. The Stormcloaks, and Ulric in particular are aware that the Thalmor are the real enemy, but they can't be opposed while Skyrim's stuck under the weak, Thalmor-appeasing Empire. At the end of the civil war Ulirc says something like (paraphrasing) 'we've won, good, now we can prep properly for the real war, because the Thalmor are coming'.

As for The Empire. It died when it failed to crush the Thalmor when they first rose. Half the old Empire is gone even if Skyrim stays in. It's broken already, pure and simple, and would require another Tiber Septim to put it back together (which would be an awesome TES VI). It doesn't really matter who rules in Skyrim if both sides are serious about rumbling with the Thalmor, as I'd expect a free Skyrim would still stand with Cyordil against the Elves. However, I did not get that impression from the Empire I saw in the game (and granted, I haven't played the Empire Civil War quests), they were very 'peace in our time' when it came to the Thalmor.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Empire.

Ulfric is basically a short-sighted child. The Empire is gearing up for another war with the Dominion and Ulfric is throwing a tantrum. And that's not to mention him being mind-fucked by the Thalmor during his imprisonment.

Plus walking into the Winddhelm castle for the first time and hearing Ulfric and Galmar getting off together on their own propaganda was very off-putting.

 

[Hades]

Empire.

And third, there is a huge difference between the Empire and the Stormcloaks attitude towards the war, the Empire seemed to be scrambling to keep Tamriel as unified as they could so the Thalmor couldn't just sweep through with another war but the Stormcloaks really only ever cared about Skyrim.

Except, the Stormcloak quests don't really bear this out. The Stormcloaks, and Ulric in particular are aware that the Thalmor are the real enemy, but they can't be opposed while Skyrim's stuck under the weak, Thalmor-appeasing Empire. At the end of the civil war Ulirc says something like (paraphrasing) 'we've won, good, now we can prep properly for the real war, because the Thalmor are coming'.

As for The Empire. It died when it failed to crush the Thalmor when they first rose. Half the old Empire is gone even if Skyrim stays in. It's broken already, pure and simple, and would require another Tiber Septim to put it back together (which would be an awesome TES VI). It doesn't really matter who rules in Skyrim if both sides are serious about rumbling with the Thalmor, as I'd expect a free Skyrim would still stand with Cyordil against the Elves. However, I did not get that impression from the Empire I saw in the game (and granted, I haven't played the Empire Civil War quests), they were very 'peace in our time' when it came to the Thalmor.

Actually Tullius says the same thing about the ''real war'' just beginning once you defeat the Stormcloaks.

 

[Kotaro]

Full blown Imperial here. Romans beat Vikings every time.

I just don't think the Stormcloaks have that much of a point. Skyrim isn't some poor oppresed nation but had always been part of the empire. The whole ban on Talos worship got enforced because the Stormcloak loudly screamed from the rooftops that they wouldn't stand for it when the empire was still lax in regards with it. There's also the racism and how even some Stormcloak leaders themselves think Ulfric is doing it all for ulfric

The biggest point against the Stormcloaks is that they come off as gigantic tools who are played by the Nazi elves like a fiddle. Weakening the best chance against Nazi elves trying to destroy the worlds certainly seems like a good idea right?

This. This, this, this. Also, looking at all the people in positions of power on both sides, the Empire has more reasonable folks in their ranks.
Especially Brunwulf, the Nicest Guy In All of Skyrim, who replaces Ulfric as Jarl of Windhelm if you complete the questline on the Empire's side. Let me count the ways in which this guy is an awesome ruler:
-He fought in the Great War, but dislikes being treated as a war hero, because he feels his actions weren't heroic.
-He keeps Ulfric's own staff on-hand because they have experience in their jobs.
-He tries to find a way to let the Argonians into the city without making the racial tensions even worse.
-He meets with the Dunmer in the slum to talk about renovating it.
-And he even offers asylum to the Jarls who were deposed for backing the Stormcloaks.
-Even before he becomes Jarl, he will still pay the player to take care of bandits who target non-Nord caravans, because he knows Ulfric won't do anything about it (because Ulfric doesn't give a crap about non-Nords).
And also, joining the Stormcloaks means betraying Balgruuf, and I could never bring myself to do that.
Really, Maven's the only one whom I don't like.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

>snip<

You do realize that that same dossier says if either side wins that it would be harmful for the thalmor right? The Thalmor wants to keep them fighting not for anyone to win

I'm not saying that the Thalmor want Ulfric to win, I'm saying that by stirring up trouble with the Empire Ulfric's rebellion is a) denying the Empire Nord troops (and traditionally the Empires crack Legions have been it's Nord Legions) and b) that by waging war on the Empire the Stormcloaks are effectively finishing what the Thalmor's Great War started.

 

[IceForce]

Plus walking into the Winddhelm castle for the first time and hearing Ulfric and Galmar getting off together on their own propaganda was very off-putting.

A few people in this thread have mentioned that speech. But I have to say, the speech you hear when you first walk into Castle Dour isn't much better.

General Tullius clearly doesn't give a shit about Nord traditions or customs. And when he tells Legate Rikke to write a message to Whiterun, he tells her to "embellish if you have to", -- ie: tell little white lies and make the situation sound worse than it actually is.

 

[kenu12345]

>snip<

You do realize that that same dossier says if either side wins that it would be harmful for the thalmor right? The Thalmor wants to keep them fighting not for anyone to win

I'm not saying that the Thalmor want Ulfric to win, I'm saying that by stirring up trouble with the Empire Ulfric's rebellion is a) denying the Empire Nord troops (and traditionally the Empires crack Legions have been it's Nord Legions) and b) that by waging war on the Empire the Stormcloaks are effectively finishing what the Thalmor's Great War started.

No, its to keep the two sides occupied and have their eyes off of them. Thats their whole purpose for instigating the war. In this aspect, the emperor is just as much if not more of an 'asset' to the thalmor as Ulfric. The Thalmor know that if either army wins, they could either A) Form an alliance with Hammerfall or heck even with the Empire to fight a common enemy(Stormcloaks) B) Face the full might of an Empire if their puppet is knocked out of place (Empire) Fact of the matter is either could spell a turn against the Thalmor but the Empire is currently controlled by the Thalmor due to peace Treaties

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

>snip<

You do realize that that same dossier says if either side wins that it would be harmful for the thalmor right? The Thalmor wants to keep them fighting not for anyone to win

I'm not saying that the Thalmor want Ulfric to win, I'm saying that by stirring up trouble with the Empire Ulfric's rebellion is a) denying the Empire Nord troops (and traditionally the Empires crack Legions have been it's Nord Legions) and b) that by waging war on the Empire the Stormcloaks are effectively finishing what the Thalmor's Great War started.

No, its to keep the two sides occupied and have their eyes off of them. Thats their whole purpose for instigating the war. In this aspect, the emperor is just as much if not more of an 'asset' to the thalmor as Ulfric. The Thalmor know that if either army wins, they could either A) Form an alliance with Hammerfall or heck even with the Empire to fight a common enemy(Stormcloaks) B) Face the full might of an Empire if their puppet is knocked out of place (Empire) Fact of the matter is either could spell a turn against the Thalmor but the Empire is currently controlled by the Thalmor due to peace Treaties

I think we're talking at cross purposes here. We both agree that the Thalmor are instigating the Rebellion to keep the Empire busy, we both agree that they are doing this to keep the Empire from regaining it's strength (perhaps by reconciling itself with Hammerfall) ... I'm not saying that the Thalmor aren't behind all of this - my original point was that I can't side with the Stormcloaks as they're dancing to a Thalmor tune and being led by a Thalmor sleeper-agent.

As for the Emperor being as much a puppet as Ulfric, well The Empire is having to react to a hostile force on it's northern border, but Skyrim isn't having to rebel.

 

[Mechamorph]

The Empire.

Ulrik may not necessarily be a bad person but his followers are racist, xenophobes who think that seceding from the Empire will solve anything. More likely it will critically weaken the Empire just when its catching its breath. Nobody seems to be all that happy with the shit that the Thalmor pull, the Empire needed to buy the time to rearm and reinforce in order to fight a war it can win. With Skyrim gone, it will weaken the Empire even further and raise the spectre of a war on two fronts. Even if Ulrik wins and creates a Skyrim for the Nords (I leave what will happen to the non-Nords to your imagination), it might only be a matter of time before the Thalmor conquer the Empire and turn their eyes to Skyrim. Good luck staying independent then.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

A few people in this thread have mentioned that speech. But I have to say, the speech you hear when you first walk into Castle Dour isn't much better.

General Tullius clearly doesn't give a shit about Nord traditions or customs. And when he tells Legate Rikke to write a message to Whiterun, he tells her to "embellish if you have to", -- ie: tell little white lies and make the situation sound worse than it actually is.

So? Tullius is in Skyrim to stop Ulfric's tantrum so the Empire can focus on the big picture. He's not there to mingle with the Jarls, he has have a job to do. Plus he has Rikke, a Nord, to advise him. Tullius and Rikke are trying to figure out the best way to end the conflict.

Whereas Ulfric and Galmar are...getting each other super jacked to...do something?

 

[Zetatrain]

From the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric:
"Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval
Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran
Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact."

TL;DR - Ulfric was broken by the Thalmor under interrogation and his interrogator is now the Thalmor advisor to the High King (to Ulfric if the Stormcloaks win). In other words the Stormcloaks are, albeit unknowingly, dancing to the Thalmor's tune so siding with the Empire is the only real choice under those circumstances.

You do realize that that same dossier says if either side wins that it would be harmful for the thalmor right? The Thalmor wants to keep them fighting not for anyone to win

Does the dossier say why having the Stormcloacks win the war would be harmful to the Thalmor? I get that having the Empire and Stormcloaks fight each other to a bloody stalemate would be best outcome, but wouldn't a Skyrim separated from the Empire still benefit the Thalmor?

 

[Someone Depressing]

I actually tried to stay neutral in that game with a little dash of murder and the occasional crime spree, but... I think I ended up siding with the Empire in the end?

I'm still waiting for the ending where you finally get to leave Deathland Sweden Skyrim with my beautiful family and 19 horses and entire crates full of dragon skin, but whatever.

 

[MiskWisk]

Add another loyal Imperial citizen to the census friend.

To explain, at the start I was suspicious of the way the game all but shouted at you to side with the Stormcloaks with the execution scene. So, I decided to wait and fully explore the game. Whenever I was in an Imperial hold, things were pretty okay with the major problems being linked to the Stormcloaks in some way (I'm looking at you Silver-Bloods) and even the one exception (Maven Black-Briar) wasn't enough to really shake that opinion. When I went to Windhelm I just saw hypocrisy. Yes, Ulfric isn't really as racist as "Evict all teh non-Nordz!" but he really couldn't give two shits about non-Nords either unless they are an immediate issue.

However, the point at which I truly decided to throw my lot in with the Empire was the peace summit with the Greybeards. Ulfric disgraced himself there, first by demanding a representative of another nation leave for no real reason other than spite and then promptly demanded concessions that were incredibly unfair and will whine at you like a child if you disagree. The fact that he had the nerve to criticize what was a fair trade and what's more, something that came about because of his own greed, was incredibly irritating.

I can't even feel I made the wrong choice in any case. I prefer the Imperial Jarls to the Stormcloak ones bar none (even the corrupt Maven replacing Laila since Laila really wasn't in control regardless) and the reactions of the NPCs makes me feel better too. If you side with the Stormcloaks, you can find several NPCs across Skyrim complaining how the victors are screwing them over but siding with the Empire gets only a couple in Windhelm and even then the complaints aren't about life being worse, they just aren't happy they lost.

Finally, looking at it on a larger scale, it is better for the Empire to remain whole to combat the Aldmeri Dominion. There are quite a few reasons, some of which have been mentioned already. The Thalmor ultimately want to drag things out as long as possible, a united Empire is better equipped and the Thalmor can more easily pick everyone apart. I would also like to remind the people citing Hammerfell too that Hammerfell is a DESERT. Deserts are not traditionally easy to conquer and generally marked the borders of Empires that did not come from a desert for a reason. Namely the natives could completely screw over invading forces with ease. Skyrim is not a desert, it would not last against an invasion. Enough said.

 

[Zen Bard]

I've done both. But I usually go with the Empire, mostly because Ulfirc Stormcloak is a prick.

And that's the thing. If he had a legitimate reason for cesseding from the Empire, I'd side with him. I'm all about sticking to The Man.

But he's a racist (and I usually play as a Dark Elf) and he murdered his king. All for the vague notion of "givng Skyrim back to the Nords."