I wanted to take over skyrim myself. seriously I'm the f-ing Dovahkiin. I defeated the world eater. frankly if I could kill the creature meant to destroy the world I can handle a Thalmor invasion. plus if you do the civil war quests you can take over the whole country in like a week or less (and it was at a bloody standstill before you came along). and I know people would follow me and I think I could convince a few dragons to help as well. sadly the game isn't deep enough to let you do that...I mean really. the stormcloaks are racist ultranationalists (and my character is a dark elf) and the imperials have proven that the empire is no longer the force it once was and is just a shell. I really wanted no part of either side. let me rule bethesda!
You could probably best a fairly large number of soldiers by yourself, but would you have any legitimacy once you've stormed the fortresses? Ulfric Stormcloak can set himself up as a leader because he was an established political figure before the rebellion and has convinced a large number of people to fight for him; the Imperials are the Status Quo government, so people are going to accept them as rulers once they're in a position to do so. What about you? Once you've stormed Solitude, slaughtered its military and political leaders, dined on their marrow, and are comfortably sitting on the throne using their innards as a footstool, who is actually going to start listening to your ideas on tax reform? You'd be "that crazy guy who killed the government", not "our Glorious Leader".
I'm sorry Peter, I couldn't resist, please forgive me.
OT: Normally the Stormcloaks, though I have decided to take a wilted, mouldy leaf from the book of Felix the (Cat) Peaceful Monk, and am playing a pacifist/thieving vampire scum-bag. I won't even use Fury, companions or summons (the former because it would still 'technically' though not 'officially' be me killing people, and the latter two because they both count towards my combat stats).
Through my blatent abuse of (100) Pickpocket and trainers, I have 70 Restoration (Necromage Vampire), and through the abuse of a radiant quest that grants a temporary magicka regeneration buff that is so insanely powerful that it regenerates faster than I can cast I have 90+ Illusion for Master of the Mind. It does, however, mean I cannot proceed down the civil war quest line because both options require you to kill something. Likewise, I can never get the Master spells because I need to continue down the College quest line to make them available (and you need to kill a Draugr to get through Saarthal), and until I can be bothered trap-killing my way through Bleak Falls Barrow I cannot do the Dragonborn quests.
However, once I get a bit stronger, I should be able to manage the Thieves Guild quest to meet Karliah (I need better magic reduction to Calm my way through Snow Falls Sanctum so that Mercer doesn't kill any of the Draugr and ruin my stats, then after that I can get my Nightingale on. Though the build is not as unproductive as it sounds. Through Restoration, Illusion, Pickpocket, 43 Smithing, 30 light armour and minor boosts to those skills that level up just through the course of playing, I am at level 30 already.
First character I sided with myself. Second with the imperials, third will likely be stormcloaks. Funny thing is I plan on making my third a Dark Elf.....
1) Hadvar was nice to me
2) Anyone who ever says "[Place] is for the [Race]" doesn't deserve support
3) The Imperials are based in Solitude, which is the most beautiful city and also has the best strategic position, Windhold is a piece of shit.
Imperials yo because they wanted to cut off my head and that s*%& is kinky.
But in all realism it's because I was first rolling a duel wielder and wanted good armor and weapons from the start, eg. you get steel armor almost straight away.
Also Stormcloaks are hippies.
I went with the Imperials. Yes, they tried to cut off my head. But, I hate racists. (also, after completing the imperial quest line I did the dark brotherhood quest line. I just like to imagine my character trying to explain why he did what he did to his bosses.)
I wanted to take over skyrim myself. seriously I'm the f-ing Dovahkiin. I defeated the world eater. frankly if I could kill the creature meant to destroy the world I can handle a Thalmor invasion. plus if you do the civil war quests you can take over the whole country in like a week or less (and it was at a bloody standstill before you came along). and I know people would follow me and I think I could convince a few dragons to help as well. sadly the game isn't deep enough to let you do that...I mean really. the stormcloaks are racist ultranationalists (and my character is a dark elf) and the imperials have proven that the empire is no longer the force it once was and is just a shell. I really wanted no part of either side. let me rule bethesda!
You could probably best a fairly large number of soldiers by yourself, but would you have any legitimacy once you've stormed the fortresses? Ulfric Stormcloak can set himself up as a leader because he was an established political figure before the rebellion and has convinced a large number of people to fight for him; the Imperials are the Status Quo government, so people are going to accept them as rulers once they're in a position to do so. What about you? Once you've stormed Solitude, slaughtered its military and political leaders, dined on their marrow, and are comfortably sitting on the throne using their innards as a footstool, who is actually going to start listening to your ideas on tax reform? You'd be "that crazy guy who killed the government", not "our Glorious Leader".
You raise a good point but do you think for a second that Talos was able to build the Empire because he was the legitimate ruler of all of the countries he took over? NO! He made himself the legitimate ruler by smashing everyone with his military might. Look, I'm the head of the companions, mage's guild, and dark brotherhood. I killed Alduin (thus saving the world). I'm a Thane in multiple cities. People like me. I would not want for followers. I would even reinstate Talos worship (thus making the Nords a bit happier). Honestly, I've done more for the common man than either side in the war. I would have the support of the people behind me. Commoners just want stability in their lives and a good harvest. The Empire is too disconnected to give the people what they need, Ulfric far too self absorbed.
To all of those citing the Talos ban as a reason to go Stormcloak: You are aware that the Imperium was NOT enforcing that ban to the fullest extent that they could right? Just making a show of it to keep the idiot elves off their backs so they could recoup their losses and try again? You had to worship SECRETLY true, but you could still get away with it easily.
In fact it didn't even draw the long ear's notice until Ulfric started throwing his tantrum and drew a LOT of attention from the elven oppressors. So yeah, thanks for making life more miserable for your people Ulfric you twit.
I had to side with the Imperium. The Stormcloaks wouldn't know long term planning if it bit them in the ass and gave them a business card, and when your dealing with Nazi Elves you NEED a long term plan beyond.
I chose neither as the way I view it I am the reincarnation of Tiber Septim and should create my own faction which eventually takes over Skyrim and slowly reunites all of Tamriel. Or at least I would like to think so there really should be a 3rd option of making your own faction which could incorporate how you become influential with all the various guilds so that they will join you in your cause.
I wanted to take over skyrim myself. seriously I'm the f-ing Dovahkiin. I defeated the world eater. frankly if I could kill the creature meant to destroy the world I can handle a Thalmor invasion. plus if you do the civil war quests you can take over the whole country in like a week or less (and it was at a bloody standstill before you came along). and I know people would follow me and I think I could convince a few dragons to help as well. sadly the game isn't deep enough to let you do that...I mean really. the stormcloaks are racist ultranationalists (and my character is a dark elf) and the imperials have proven that the empire is no longer the force it once was and is just a shell. I really wanted no part of either side. let me rule bethesda!
You could probably best a fairly large number of soldiers by yourself, but would you have any legitimacy once you've stormed the fortresses? Ulfric Stormcloak can set himself up as a leader because he was an established political figure before the rebellion and has convinced a large number of people to fight for him; the Imperials are the Status Quo government, so people are going to accept them as rulers once they're in a position to do so. What about you? Once you've stormed Solitude, slaughtered its military and political leaders, dined on their marrow, and are comfortably sitting on the throne using their innards as a footstool, who is actually going to start listening to your ideas on tax reform? You'd be "that crazy guy who killed the government", not "our Glorious Leader".
You raise a good point but do you think for a second that Talos was able to build the Empire because he was the legitimate ruler of all of the countries he took over? NO! He made himself the legitimate ruler by smashing everyone with his military might. Look, I'm the head of the companions, mage's guild, and dark brotherhood. I killed Alduin (thus saving the world). I'm a Thane in multiple cities. People like me. I would not want for followers. I would even reinstate Talos worship (thus making the Nords a bit happier). Honestly, I've done more for the common man than either side in the war. I would have the support of the people behind me. Commoners just want stability in their lives and a good harvest. The Empire is too disconnected to give the people what they need, Ulfric far too self absorbed.
Whether or not you were able to establish a legitimate rule depends on whether or not you were actually able to enforce your rule. That in itself depends on having a large number of people who follow your orders. In short, you need soldiers, and lots of them. Now look at the various groups you can become head of in the game: whether or not they were actually capable of doing so, none of them would support the decision to start a new war. There's such a thing as having a boss that's too loony: if you tried to sell them on the idea of conquest, they'd probably start having serious discussions on replacing you. Neither the Dark Brotherhood nor the Thieves Guild are direct fighters, the College of Winterhold has a small number of members who are mainly concerned with furthering their knowledge, and the members of the Companions only care about making money (plus that whole werewolf thing), so fighting a war wouldn't be conducive to the survival and prosperity of any of those factions. You could try walking the countryside trying to recruit peasants, but you'd have to sell them on your agenda first, and at that point word that you were trying to usurp the government would eventually reach the Stormcloaks or the Imperials, whereupon one or both of them would send soldiers to wipe out whatever mercenaries you had managed to gather. And once mercenaries realize that they're fighting against an entire nation, it becomes rather hard to convince them to stay around no matter how many dragons you've been born from.
You will find the leaders are often semi-parallels of each other.
Winterhold: Morthal. Both aren't liked by their people. Winterhold has legitimate reason to be unhappy - his entire town fell into the Ocean. Well, a tiny bit survived, but W/E. Fact of the matter is, no-one listens to him. He sends the Dovahkiin on quests to regain some status for Winterhold - collecting artefacts of her past to gain some standing with the other Jarls - but he is almost literally a Jarl without a hold. His biggest failing is that he hates the Mage college, but that is because he suspects them (Incorrectly) of causing the great collapse. Morthal is in the opposite problem, where she trusts the mage, but the town don't and don't like her decision making.
Dawnstar: Falkreath. Both more obsessed in their personal endeavours than in the town they govern. Dawnstar is in it for the Glory of the war, to drive the Imperials out and reclaim Skyrim for the Nords. Falkreath is in it for his own personal pleasure. He couldn't care less about his hold, so long as his belly stays full and bandits fill his coffers.
Markarth: Riften. Both aren't run by the Jarls, but by a corrupt family using another faction to elicit control of the hold. In Riften, its the Blackbriars and the Thieves Guild. In Markarth, its the Silverbloods and the Forsworn. Hell, these are probably the two most paralleled towns. They are at the farthest point on the map to opposite directions of each other, both have the same problems, both have the same sort of leader and both are two of the largest cities in the game (Not sure exactly where Solitude or Windhelm sit in size comparison to Riften).
And Finally, Solitude: Windhelm. Both are under a rather lackluster leadership ATM. Ulfric is obsessed with the war, Elisif is just plain incompetent in command. Both suffer from problems: There is a murderer in Windhelm, a Necromancer witch queen in Solitude. Both are the capitals, and in both the Stewards run the hold whilst the other does whatever (Elisif mope about her dead husband, Ulfric go on about the war).
Now, I chose Stormcloaks. My reasons for this can be found on any number of other threads; use the search bar.
While I do not deny that there are parallels, I feel that there are key differences that make the Imperials better.
Winterhold/Morthal: Jarl Ravencrone is mistrusted but competent, but Jarl Korir is mistrusted AND incompetent. In Morthal, she recognizes a major problem and lets you lead a sizable force to deal with it (although you can run ahead and deal with it yourself). In Winterhold, he's more concentrated about whining about his problems than doing anything about them. He relies on ancient relics to prove his worth instead of proving his own, and his mistrust of the College is one of the major reasons people ignore him in the first place.
Dawnstar/Falkreath: Both leaders are crap, end of story. Moving on...
Riften/Markarth: The big difference between these two cities is that while the Black-Briars are completely in control of their city, the Silver-Bloods are not. In fact, you can always see Thongvor Silver-Blood waiting in the main hall, angry that his family doesn't influence the Jarl as much as they want. Jarl Igmund still holds some degree of power, which is more than can be said about Jarl Law-Giver.
Windhelm/Solitude: Okay, where do you get the impression that Elisif is "incompetent"? She is inexperienced, sure, but she was thrust into that position very abruptly and she is still in mourning (and to call that "moping" is very insensitive). She might not know all the nuances of rule and might over- or under-compensate as a result, but she still has advisers to keep her on the right track (which is what "advising" is for). Ulfric talks a good game, but I've never seen him do anything beyond planning battles he never partakes in.
And then we have the replacement Jarls...
Whiterun: (Stormcloak) What's this? A competent leader who cares for the well-being of his people? Pssh! Get rid of him and replace him with a warmonger who lets his rivals get robbed and has major businesses stagnate because they aren't run by Nords... truly a good leader! The Battle-Borns may come across as snobbish, but at least they tried to have the rival clan's member released.
Markarth: (Stormcloak) Put a Silver-Blood on the throne, because the future High King totally needs supporters that directly feed him with money. Ain't privatization grand?
Mortal: (Stormcloak) Ooh look, another Jarl owning a mine! Privatization is truly the Stormcloak way!
Falkreath: (Stormcloak) Okay, I'll admit, this one seems reasonable. However, Jarl Dengeir openly admits that he doesn't trust Ulfric as far as he can throw him. Just what you want in your supporters... open mistrust. Can't pick 'em better, eh?
Solitude: (Stormcloak) None, leaving power in the hands of a woman who constantly wishes death upon you for your selfish murder of her husband. Yeah, that'll end well...
Dawnstar: (Imperial) Retired Imperial commander who understands discipline and proper troop allocation instead of being a paranoid wreck who blindly sends his troops to "glory"? Sounds good.
Winterhold: (Imperial) A member of a noble line who wants to improve relations with the College and wishes to restore Winterhold to its former greatness? Great pick!
Riften: (Imperial) Okay, the whole "privatization" argument works here as well, but the way I see it, at least Maven has strong Imperial connections as is and she was effectively running the place anyway. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't?
Windhelm: (Imperial) Holy crap, is he the nicest guy in Skyrim or what? Within hours of taking command, he's talking with the citizens of the Gray Quarter into improving their standards of living and tries to improve Argonian integration without agitating racial tensions.
In summary: Stormcloaks have heavy privatization, distrust, and noticeable oppression, while the Imperials support order, unity, and competence. I see nothing good about Stormcloak leaders and lots of good with the Imperials. Not perfect, but better than the alternative.
Going by my main character, he sided with himself, that is to say, the Thieves Guild. I like to role play in this kind of game (I know right) and the way I figured it, he sees the war as good for the guild and therefore does not favor either side, but would rather the Imperials and Stormcloaks just keep fighting. Plus, the Imperials did try to execute him and the Stormcloaks are racists pricks.
Windhelm/Solitude: Okay, where do you get the impression that Elisif is "incompetent"? She is inexperienced, sure, but she was thrust into that position very abruptly and she is still in mourning (and to call that "moping" is very insensitive). She might not know all the nuances of rule and might over- or under-compensate as a result, but she still has advisers to keep her on the right track (which is what "advising" is for).
Yeah, it's probably a good thing for the Imperials that Elsif is willing to listen to her advisers. I seem to recall overhearing words to this effect quite vividly:
"Lady Elsif, we've had reports of disappearances in the mountains."
"SEND IN THE ENTIRE LEGION!"
"Yes, Lady, about that..."
I wasn't listing guilds to mark them as my fighters necessarily, just to show that I have influence. The companions for instance are highly respected, their Harbinger even more so. And no one would ever walk around just recruiting peasants. As I said, I have influence. I would need to convince people in power to fight for me rather than Ulfric or the Empire (which would undoubtedly be tricky). You could force some, charm others. For instance, the Jarl of Whiterun doesn't want to chose a side at first, he likes and dislikes both. But I saved his city from a dragon. I saved his city. If I could show him that I have the strength to win the war he would follow me. Also in the game only one dragon obeys you but I'm sure you could force others to do the same. The Thu'um of the Dragonborn is far stronger than any of the dragons. Imagine, convince enough Jarls and you could even win the war without more bloodshed if the support of both sides just dries up.
Windhelm/Solitude: Okay, where do you get the impression that Elisif is "incompetent"? She is inexperienced, sure, but she was thrust into that position very abruptly and she is still in mourning (and to call that "moping" is very insensitive). She might not know all the nuances of rule and might over- or under-compensate as a result, but she still has advisers to keep her on the right track (which is what "advising" is for).
Yeah, it's probably a good thing for the Imperials that Elsif is willing to listen to her advisers. I seem to recall overhearing words to this effect quite vividly:
"Lady Elsif, we've had reports of disappearances in the mountains."
"SEND IN THE ENTIRE LEGION!"
"Yes, Lady, about that..."
She mentioned sending a legion, not the whole Legion. Granted, a full legion of troops would be overkill regardless, but it's nowhere near the amount you believe.
I opted for supporting the stormcloaks, because at the end of the day they didn't arrest me then decide to kill me for no reason. Much as the imperials DID.
Neither side, as I had much more important things to do. I slaughtered Stormcloaks and Imperial Guards alike. If only there was a way to be able to destroy both factions. I mean...I should be able to. I'm the head of the Dark Brotherhood and the College (Have yet to do the Thieves Guild).
I wasn't listing guilds to mark them as my fighters necessarily, just to show that I have influence. The companions for instance are highly respected, their Harbinger even more so. And no one would ever walk around just recruiting peasants. As I said, I have influence. I would need to convince people in power to fight for me rather than Ulfric or the Empire (which would undoubtedly be tricky). You could force some, charm others. For instance, the Jarl of Whiterun doesn't want to chose a side at first, he likes and dislikes both. But I saved his city from a dragon. I saved his city. If I could show him that I have the strength to win the war he would follow me. Also in the game only one dragon obeys you but I'm sure you could force others to do the same. The Thu'um of the Dragonborn is far stronger than any of the dragons. Imagine, convince enough Jarls and you could even win the war without more bloodshed if the support of both sides just dries up.
The thing is, all of the Jarls have already backed the Stormcloaks or the Imperials. Have you ever wondered why, in many Democratic systems, things tend to devolve into two political groups going at each other's throats, and third parties don't usually get many votes unless one of the major ones completely disintegrates? It's because a third party has to start out small. The first two parties have guaranteed voters- guys, and guys who think the other guys are dicks. But after that, people start questioning things. You always have to start off as a small party competing against the two established titans, and people don't want to back a team they think might lose. So they tend to back one of the titans instead, and your party stays small.
Same principal applies here. How are you going to convince your first Jarl to support you? He already has a moral obligation to follow one side; why is he going to back you instead when you don't have anybody else supporting you?
Windhelm/Solitude: Okay, where do you get the impression that Elisif is "incompetent"? She is inexperienced, sure, but she was thrust into that position very abruptly and she is still in mourning (and to call that "moping" is very insensitive). She might not know all the nuances of rule and might over- or under-compensate as a result, but she still has advisers to keep her on the right track (which is what "advising" is for).
Yeah, it's probably a good thing for the Imperials that Elsif is willing to listen to her advisers. I seem to recall overhearing words to this effect quite vividly:
"Lady Elsif, we've had reports of disappearances in the mountains."
"SEND IN THE ENTIRE LEGION!"
"Yes, Lady, about that..."
She mentioned sending a legion, not the whole Legion. Granted, a full legion of troops would be overkill regardless, but it's nowhere near the amount you believe.
Oh yeah, I know I was using hyperbole, and it would only be about 5,000 troops if we're sticking with the roman parallels. It just struck me as really funny to imagine a phalanx of soldiers walking through the wilderness, all wondering what the hell they were supposed to be looking for.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
