Poll: So the F-22 has been cancelled

[Neverhoodian]

Thats great....

Now our only good stealth plane is the F-117. If they cancel that then, shit, they just cancelled my favorite plane.

Hate to break it to you, but the U.S. Air Force has already retired the F-117.

It's a shame we don't have another aircraft to replace the F-15 at the moment. I volunteer at a local air museum, and one of my fellow docents was heavily involved in developing the SR-71 at Skunk Works. He told me that it's becoming increasingly difficult for the Air Force to keep the aging F-15s at peak performance due to normal wear and tear and a growing lack of replacement parts. It would be good if the Air Force got a good replacement for the F-15, but I don't know if they'll get it, what with the country racking up an insane debt and most states facing budget crises. Let's hope the F-35 is as good of a replacement plane as they say it is.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

So after ALL THAT DAMN TESTING AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY ARE CANCELING THE DAMN THING?!?
This just pisses me off. I HATE how people cut the cord on a project so far in development, whatever it may be (Just not a doomsday device).
They already cut the shuttle replacement (well, seriously nerfed the whole project, NOT going to the moon, only building the ORION as a transport to the ISS.), and now they cut the Fighter project that has been in development since the mid-90's!

relax, they are switching to the f-35, which is like 20% cheaper

Well, they do look almost exactly the same...
And there IS a VTOL version...
I suppose it isn't all bad. It's still disappointing after all that time.

 

[Souplex]

If you're going to cnacel something... please don't sink billions into it first!

That's how representative Democracy works silly, different people with different ideas take turns at being in charge, with none of them being around long enough to get hings to where they want them.

 

[Amishdemon]

If I'm correct we canceled t because it was to good for a air to air fighter and cost too much so we switched to the f-35. right?

 

[Blue_vision]

The biggest "threat to western way of life" is the USA itself. Anyone looking at military spending and equipment between countries, who thinks that the USA is a defender, rather than an aggressor, has lost more than common sense.

So yup, good riddance.

I was going to say this as soon as I read that first post there.

 

[Burck]

Bullshit.

The United States needs an air superiority fighter to replace the F-15. This women knows nothing about combat, the importance of air superiority and how disarmament DOES NOT WORK. It cost money to be the best, and I for one expect my government to protect me from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.

Combat requires communication and reliability. The F-22 lacks those two due to its inability to communicate with other planes and suffering from a critical failure every 1.7 hours. Not to mention the excessive amount of maintenance required.

Not only does that make the plane impractical.

For the sake of our military (and I say this hypothetically), we need a fighter jet that we can rely on.

The F-22 would put its pilots at risk, and our military at risk.

It's like a mud-filled M-16A1 that flies.

 

[DarkSpectre]

We don't need more than the few we have right now. This plane is so unimaginably advanced that it is worth ten of every other plane in our fleet. It is phenomenally expensive but worth it. It has the smallest radar cross section of any plane every made. It is capable of super cruise. The trust vectoring makes it more maneuverable than the Su-37. The most powerful ability is the the networked targeting system. One raptor can stay up front unseen and provide the targeting for a squadron of 35's or other aircraft behind. This allows the other aircraft to stay out of the line of fire. Eventually the Air Force will buy more but right now we don't have the funds to, and upgrading the other airframes in the fleet is more important. Mainly a knew tanker aircraft. We don't need a lot of these right now. We have enough to make it through the early stage of any major war for the next twenty years. This design is years ahead of any other fighter out there so we have time to gather the funds to convert the fleet.

 

[Signa]

I'm glad I have some smart people here to explain why she was such a dumbass. I bought her lines hook and sinker because I didn't know any other facts than the ones she was presenting.

The only time my BS meter pinged was when she said it had no radio, because not only was that implausible to be accurate, but it also made some sense for stealth reasons.

 

[Double A]

Bullshit.

The United States needs an air superiority fighter to replace the F-15. This women knows nothing about combat, the importance of air superiority and how disarmament DOES NOT WORK. It cost money to be the best, and I for one expect my government to protect me from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.

This women enrages me. I really think that she does not understand what an air superiority fighter is supposed to do. Which is one thing, kill enemy fighters. It doesn't need armour against small arms because it will be flying at 30,000 feet or better at mach 2. Her dissenting voice drives me to kill babies, god damn she is annoying.

Granted, the structuring of how it was manufactured is flawed (cash expenditures.) But the need for an air superiority fighter is still here. The USSR isn't around any more, but China and India are going to be the new threats to western ways of life.

I'm going to stop writing now, before I tick off everyone on the forum...

From the way it seems, being vulnerable to rain and unable to communicate with other planes is a pretty big drawback for such an expensive piece of hardware. If you spend lots of money on something, at least do it right. Oh, and the 44 states thing is bullshit, it should be built in as few as possible to cut costs on quality control and shipping.

We need a new advanced fighter jet. The Raptor isn't that.

 

[BonsaiK]

China and India are going to be the new threats to western ways of life.

China and India are the enablers of the western way of life!

If you don't believe me, get the keyboard you're in front of now, flip it over, and tell me where it's made.

Trust me, China and India aren't going to be fighting shit. (well, not western shit anyway)

 

[Omikron009]

Aww, man. I knew this day would come. If world peace ever comes, military technology should continue anyway, because it's so cool.

 

[Hamburger_Time]

F-15 ACTIV FOR THE WIN!!!!

 

[vxicepickxv]

We don't need more than the few we have right now. This plane is so unimaginably advanced that it is worth ten of every other plane in our fleet.

I hate to stop you there, but as a member of Naval Aviation, I can tell you that your statement there isn't true. It may COST ten of every other plane in our fleet, but it's not worth anywhere near that much.

It is phenomenally expensive but worth it. It has the smallest radar cross section of any plane ever made.

The size difference between a marble and a golf ball is pretty much negligible.

It is capable of super cruise. The trust vectoring makes it more maneuverable than the Su-37. The most powerful ability is the the networked targeting system. One raptor can stay up front unseen and provide the targeting for a squadron of 35's or other aircraft behind.

Super cruise is a nice function, and apparently won't be replicated in the F-35. Using a raptor as a target guide is a great idea, except that it can't communicate with other aircraft. If it can communicate with the F-35, then that plan may work. Other aircraft are more than capable of cross communication, and with the ranges on certain other radar systems, they make flying in the front a pretty obsolete concept. There are several other aircraft capable of using their radar systems to cross track multiple types of aircraft and provide targeting data to them(air/air, air/surface, surface/air, surface/surface, subsurface/surface, subsurface/air, and air/subsurface)

This allows the other aircraft to stay out of the line of fire. Eventually the Air Force will buy more but right now we don't have the funds to, and upgrading the other airframes in the fleet is more important.

They're not going to buy more, because there isn't going to be funding for any more.

Mainly a new tanker aircraft. We don't need a lot of these right now. We have enough to make it through the early stage of any major war for the next twenty years. This design is years ahead of any other fighter out there so we have time to gather the funds to convert the fleet.

That's why they're going to a universal F-35 airframe(which should be twin engine, but that's another discussion). Being able to provide a single fighter aircraft to replace three existing types(F-15,F-16, and F/A-18) across multiple branches of service, and providing universal support and parts for this aircraft is going to be a boon for the military.


Don't get me wrong. The F-22 is an AMAZING aircraft, when it works. But it doesn't work as well as we would have liked, especially for the cost.

 

[blind_dead_mcjones]

Hate to break it to you, but the U.S. Air Force has already retired the F-117.

It's a shame we don't have another aircraft to replace the F-15 at the moment. I volunteer at a local air museum, and one of my fellow docents was heavily involved in developing the SR-71 at Skunk Works. He told me that it's becoming increasingly difficult for the Air Force to keep the aging F-15s at peak performance due to normal wear and tear and a growing lack of replacement parts. It would be good if the Air Force got a good replacement for the F-15, but I don't know if they'll get it, what with the country racking up an insane debt and most states facing budget crises. Let's hope the F-35 is as good of a replacement plane as they say it is.

unfotunately i doubt the F-35 will be a suitable replacement for the F-15

for all the talk of its stealth ability, the F-35 only has a stealth advantage against radar, and that stealth comes at a permorance cost in other areas, if it was pitted against one of the latest sukhoi fighters (SU-35S for example or the SU-30MK series) it would be a much different story, due to its IRST function, extensive IR and electro optical long and short range missiles (the range of which exceeds that of almost all US made missles save the phoenix missile, which is no longer used), superior BVR capabilities, much greater fuel volumne, surperior thrust to weight ratio, low wing loading and a significant thrust and kinematic advantage, the F-35 would have little chance against a sukhoi with a competent pilot

 

[Thedayrecker]

Didn't this happen a while ago?

 

[DarkSpectre]

Any radio issues would not be the airframe but the avionics. Which at the time of that report were too advanced for the rest of fleet, but wouldn't be an issue when the plane was deployed. I agree we don't need more of them, we have more pressing needs elsewhere and with things like the stimulus sucking away trillions we have to be very thrifty. The Air Force planes on slowly replacing all the f-15 with the f-22. The f-35 is to replace the f-16. There is a major difference between the roles of the these aircraft. The f-35 is a cheap interceptor and support aircraft, the f-22 is a air superiority and strike aircraft. Very different roles very different costs. The f-35 doesn't even compare to the f-22 as far as capabilities go and the f-35 would never have been possible without the f-22 research. Could it have been better managed as a project? Most likely, but it is still the best fighter in the world. Some people might say we don't need air superiority fighters but Iran has an Air Force North Korea has an Air Force and who knows who our enemy will be in the future. One of these raptors is worth a squadron of any of our potential enemies. The Air Force was never asking for a lot of these things. The Air Force is trying to do it's duty and provide its country with the best and most powerful defensive weapons ever. This newscaster clear has done little to no research on this subject or she is lying. All DOD projects are spread across the country for safety reasons. We don't want to loose our production ability to a first strike. The quality control issues were not a USAF or DOD caused issue the building is done by Lockheed Martin. The USAF just buys the things it doesn't build them. It was a private company that was having issues not the government. The rain doesn't hurt the plane it just interferes with the stealth, like any and all stealth planes. Plus the USAF would have to be forced by congress to sell these things to another country. We guard out stealth technology more closely than our nukes. We are still the only nation that knows how exactly to do it and we are not going to let that out. Heck we haven't even told the Brits how to do it as well as us and we're practically married. My goodness it is infuriating how little she seems to know about how things work in the DoD yet talks like she is some genius. On a side note people in the military are smart, quite smart, you don't really think we spend $600 on a hammer do you Ms. Maddow? Think about it while playing the latest COD.

 

[Zoroastres]

This is all quite old information.

As for the F-22... The United States has no money. It is dead broke. It is billions of dollars in debt. We're cutting science and education at a terrifying rate.

We're also spending more money on the military than we have in our entire history.

It's absurd. The Military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned of isn't bleeding American dry: it already has. And we're stuck in a rapidly-decaying corpse. It's pathetic.

 

[Thedayrecker]

snip

Dude.... paragraphs....

 

[Merkavar]

This is all quite old information.

As for the F-22... The United States has no money. It is dead broke. It is billions of dollars in debt. We're cutting science and education at a terrifying rate.

We're also spending more money on the military than we have in our entire history.

It's absurd. The Military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned of isn't bleeding American dry: it already has. And we're stuck in a rapidly-decaying corpse. It's pathetic.

yay for a country spending less on education and more on big guns. i feel totally safe right now

we better stop using big words around americans or they might get angry and attack us all.


Sounds like the plane is abit of a fail but not cause of al lthe reasons she gave.

I like how at the end shes makes the joke that they will be sold to other countries. Sad thing is australia would probably be dumb enough to buy them, australia always seems to buy rubbish tanks and helicopters that dont work.

 

[vxicepickxv]

Any radio issues would not be the airframe but the avionics. Which at the time of that report were too advanced for the rest of fleet, but wouldn't be an issue when the plane was deployed.

I don't think it's the radios that are the issue, but the rest of the avionics, which would include battle mapping systems, but I'm not going to go into details about those.

I agree we don't need more of them, we have more pressing needs elsewhere and with things like the stimulus sucking away trillions we have to be very thrifty. The Air Force planes on slowly replacing all the f-15 with the f-22. The f-35 is to replace the f-16. There is a major difference between the roles of the these aircraft. The f-35 is a cheap interceptor and support aircraft, the f-22 is a air superiority and strike aircraft. Very different roles very different costs. The f-35 doesn't even compare to the f-22 as far as capabilities go and the f-35 would never have been possible without the f-22 research. Could it have been better managed as a project? Most likely, but it is still the best fighter in the world.

Okay, now I see where you're coming from.

Some people might say we don't need air superiority fighters but Iran has an Air Force North Korea has an Air Force and who knows who our enemy will be in the future. One of these raptors is worth a squadron of any of our potential enemies. The Air Force was never asking for a lot of these things. The Air Force is trying to do it's duty and provide its country with the best and most powerful defensive weapons ever.

The Iranian Air Force is built mostly from aging F-14 aircraft, and no company in the US is allowed to sell their replacement stockpile. I'm sure the North Korean Air Force is in a similar shape, plus they will have inferior pilots. It doesn't matter how good your technology is, if you don't know how to use it. As for future threats, I don't see as much physical confrontation on the horizon, or in this case, above the horizon. If it was required, we have the technological edge, and we train or pilots to be the best at what they do.

This newscaster clear has done little to no research on this subject or she is lying. All DOD projects are spread across the country for safety reasons. We don't want to loose our production ability to a first strike. The quality control issues were not a USAF or DOD caused issue the building is done by Lockheed Martin. The USAF just buys the things it doesn't build them. It was a private company that was having issues not the government. The rain doesn't hurt the plane it just interferes with the stealth, like any and all stealth planes. Plus the USAF would have to be forced by congress to sell these things to another country. We guard out stealth technology more closely than our nukes. We are still the only nation that knows how exactly to do it and we are not going to let that out. Heck we haven't even told the Brits how to do it as well as us and we're practically married. My goodness it is infuriating how little she seems to know about how things work in the DoD yet talks like she is some genius. On a side note people in the military are smart, quite smart, you don't really think we spend $600 on a hammer do you Ms. Maddow? Think about it while playing the latest COD.

You're talking about an MSNBC commentator, as opposed to an actual newscaster. There's a big difference there. I'm not going to say much other than cherry picking to make a point is done by all kinds of people.