Poll: So Valve broke HL1...

[DarkRyter]

I don't understand what half those words mean.

Acronyms, man.

 

[Connor Lonske]

on topic, i agree with what you've said about frame rates for games, but you don't really need a amazing one for a game like hl1, nor do you need it to not look like shit because it's almost 15 years old and by that determination already looks like shit

Well, "over 10 FPS" should not be considered amazing by any stretch of the word. It'd call that "playable" myself. And I still like how HL looks - I too do LAN parties and we play it, along with Quake 3 and other games. Yes, it's not ultra mega photorealistic but it doesn't have to be, also it looks adequate. I don't see why the attitude of "it doesn't need to look better, since there are other games that look better". That's just a very bizarre thing to say - if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better?

well i should of been more clear and said the frame rate for hl1 should be around 30 for it to be good, seeing how it's old software running on new hardware and that's more related to the quality of the gameplay then how it looks.

also you miss took my argument for, as you said "if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better" when i mean, "the game is old enough where expecting it too look good graphics wise is kinda silly."

if you're dealing with outdated graphics then why would they mater. also that part of what i was saying was referring to what you said about the game running crappy on software rendering and i assume you were talking about the graphics not the frame rate seeing how you didn't mention the frame rate and i wasn't talking about it beforehand.

(also hl1 does kinda look like shit to me personally but whatever)

also you should do a doom LAN with a modern version of the executable (Zandronum) that has mouse look and updated controls. it'd be killer if you and your friends like old games.

 

[Requia]

your pc can't run hl1 with open GL... does your GPU use shared memory or somethin?

[...]

if your CPU is shit maybe you should be considering getting an entry level GPU for your computer that's a separate card. the price range for this is around 80 to 120 USD and stuff. pretty cheap, all things considered.

look for a Radeon HD 6670 or 7750. both around 100 bucks and worth the money if you just want to play games both old and new at a cheap price

It's a laptop. Seriously, people, the OP is not that long or confusing to read.

anyway if your CPU is super powerful software should run the game fine.

I've always had the game look shit in software rendering. Runs fine, yes, but it's just ugly.

Really? I generally don't have problems with ATI or AMD stuff, I'm running a 4770 right now in my desktop and it's doing really well for a 4 year old card.

It's just this card that has been annoying. It's a 5470 which I obviously didn't do enough research on when I bought the laptop. I actually was looking at several ones and it was down to just picking which video card I'd pick and for some reason I took the 5470 for another one (can't remember the model number but it was a digit off, I think - something like 5770). Only later did I realise it. Still, as I said, mostly annoying not a huge deal breaker, since it plays most of what I want from it.

Anyway, I'll be building a new PC hopefully in a few months time, a proper desktop now, and I think I'll go with nVidia. I've got nothing much against ATI...well, although I do think nVidia are the leaders in top tier stuff, I'm not really after that. The reason I'd probably go with nVidia is that they seem to have better Linux drivers. The current ones by ATI require black candles and sacrifices as part of the installation. OK...you can also do as much good with just a silent prayer to anything you choose - God, other beings, your shoe, or even Thursday and it would do as much good but it just won't convey the proper mood.

As of 8 months ago (when I replaced my hard drive, I have no idea about the actual date of change) ATI drivers install on Ubuntu with no issues, I assume it also works on Debian once you get past the bitching and moaning about non free software. (for the record, anything more complicated than 'aptitude install $name' is needlessly complicated to me, and that works now, though the package name is still impossible to remember flrgx, frlgx, something like that).

 

[gLoveofLove]

There was no option to choose in the poll, but I am in the rare camp of "I still regularly play HL multiplayer but I don't care about this"

 

[Gorden Springel]

Its half life one, time to get a new bloody game if you ask me. Or a new computer, I bet you could buy one that runs half life 2 for like 200 bucks...

 

[DoPo]

As of 8 months ago (when I replaced my hard drive, I have no idea about the actual date of change) ATI drivers install on Ubuntu with no issues, I assume it also works on Debian once you get past the bitching and moaning about non free software. (for the record, anything more complicated than 'aptitude install $name' is needlessly complicated to me, and that works now, though the package name is still impossible to remember flrgx, frlgx, something like that).

It's fglrx and yeah, I tried installing it multiple times both from the repos and downloading the package itself, I even tried several permutations. Well, I managed to break X several times, break the drivers (so it just fell back to the Intel chipset - while I was getting picture, for some reason, cannot do OpenGL and there is no 3D acceleration at all) several other times and I think once or twice nothing happened. I finally concluded that the driver was just incompatible with my card. I saw reports from many other people that it doesn't work for them, too. Apparently, it's quite hit and miss - it either works for your platform or it doesn't.

also you miss took my argument for, as you said "if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better" when i mean, "the game is old enough where expecting it too look good graphics wise is kinda silly."

if you're dealing with outdated graphics then why would they mater. also that part of what i was saying was referring to what you said about the game running crappy on software rendering and i assume you were talking about the graphics not the frame rate seeing how you didn't mention the frame rate and i wasn't talking about it beforehand.

No, it just looks way worse than before. I don't expect the game to throw Crysis levels of visual quality at me, but I do want it to not look worse than before.

also you should do a doom LAN with a modern version of the executable (Zandronum) that has mouse look and updated controls. it'd be killer if you and your friends like old games.

I do like old games, but apparently 1998-ish is the lowest they'd go - I tried to suggest Quake 2, which I've legitimately had most fun playing multiplayer (and Q3 was the first game I played in LAN), but they didn't feel like it.

Also, I've played the original Doom 2 in multi in a more modern setting (back in...2002, I think) - it was still a blast, even though you don't use a mouse and all. Good times.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

That's bullshit. I hate Steam's policy of forcing you to update, even if it doesn't benefit you you. Not to mention the stupidity of updating a 15 year old game to take functionality AWAY from it!

Shogun 2's 12GB patch still irritates me. I'm growing increasingly impatient with Steam. The sales and the fact that my friends use it are the only good things about it.

GOG and GMG generally have better sales than Steam, despite giving you a Steam key most of the time. So there's another thing against them.

Very true. I got Dishonored for £14.99 a couple of weeks after release through GMG. Steam's none-sale prices are often higher than anyone else's, too.

And one of the best things about GOG is how you're not tied to a client at all. You can just launch the game and play it! Madness!

 

[antigodoflife]

In a weird move from valve, they are fiercely updating the first (yes, that old poo) half-life.

"What did they fix?!" you ask, "What new features we got?" you cry.

Uh, none. They removed D3D. They removed EAX.

Only two options remain in the video rendering department - software (uh...) and OpenGL(UH...!)

Now, I don't have anything against OGL per se, but my intel integrated can't handle OpenGL for shit, and I am stuck with 5FPS (playing sven coop, which requires OGL or D3D). Why do I care? LAN-parties on laptops...

And this is why I don't like Steam. first they force us to use steam's auth servers, and now THIS? Come ON!

VALVE, WHAT THE FUCK?


Discussion value: What do you think of such moves? (also the question in the poll, escapist ate it)

I say it's being an asshole. Were it a fresh buy I would definitely demand my cash back. I think it is definitely wrong to downgrade a game - even as old as this - just to satisfy some 'policy'. Fine, don't add DirectX to new games Valve*, but why downgrade purchased copies?

What next? "Multiplayer has been dropped in new build"?



*oh right, you don't make games anymore.


EDIT: it seems it happened almost a year ago... still, haven't heard about it till now.

I have no idea what you just said... can someone please translate this in to elementary grade English for me so I may understand.

 

[Ziame]

I have no idea what you just said... can someone please translate this in to elementary grade English for me so I may understand.

Everyone understood, save you alone. I think there is something wrong with you, not the post

Spoiler: translated for your convenience

Valve took a game - Half-Life 1 - and disabled Direct 3D support ( a part of DirectX libraries), forcing users to use OpenGL rendering or Sofware rendering. Latter looks like shit(for example lacking certain effects), former does not really have good support nowadays, especially from Intel integrated graphics, which I happen to use on my laptop. Discussion value: What do you think of removing features from such an old game? Is it a good move by Valve? How would you handle the situation?

Wait... Intel integrated? Really?

You might want to consider buying like a 7750 or something man they're like £80 and will change your experience completely given you have a PSU of about 400W...

It worked. It does not now. Besides, not like I can update a laptop. Nor should I, for a 15-year old game.

try software

It works fine, but lacks some of the effects (that need D3D/OGL to work). I do use it right now.

but my intel integrated can't handle OpenGL for shit,

I can't possibly imagine how old it must be if it stutters on HL1, perhaps it's time to get a new one(laptop, card or whatever.)

It's not old, it just has shit drivers for OGL. It can handle HL1 fine in D3D/Software, as well as, say, Empire Earth or Starcraft.

I don't own the original Half-Life on Steam, but I do own Counter-Strike, which runs on the same engine, and to me it shows that D3D and EAX are still available.

yea, cause they don't change it in all at once. Blue Shift has D3D as well... Imagine the shit storm.

All that being said, who says you have to have the Steam version? wink, wink

I agree that intel drivers are shit for OGL, but fact stands that the game WORKED before, and now it does NOT.

Disc version doesn't have online multiplayer anymore (they dropped the auth servers) so only Steam is a viable option for MP(especially with mods dropping support for disc versions). We played vanilla from disc for a while tbh, we just craved for Sven COOP.


___


Guys, please stop posting "Buy new computer" or "buy a new game". I have a good PC that handles all my favourite games, but it would be stupid to carry PC+screen+speakers/headphone+mouse+keyboard to every party.

I gather at my pal's place and we play on our work-laptops. We have chosen HL1 because it looked and played good on those laptops, that lack proper GPUs. Now with the update, those same laptops can't handle the game on the same level of playability, even though nothing was added to it. Mind you, laptops we use are in no way gaming laptops, and as such many games just do not work: Starship Troopers, Magicka etc. just won't work, finito, so we do not really have an alternative

I see NO discussion value in repeating "lol your laptop is shit" or "lol you play hl1". Thread is supposed to be about Steam's update policy, using recent developments in HL1 department as an example.

 

[DoPo]

Guys, please stop posting "Buy new computer" or "buy a new game".

Yeah, it also annoyed me while reading the thread. But there might be a fix- try adding -nofbo to the launch options - that disables some new OGL feature Valve apparently added and that feature is known to have faulty implementations in software/hardware some times. Credit for the tip goes to AyaReiko.

 

[Ziame]

Guys, please stop posting "Buy new computer" or "buy a new game".

Yeah, it also annoyed me while reading the thread. But there might be a fix- try adding -nofbo to the launch options - that disables some new OGL feature Valve apparently added and that feature is known to have faulty implementations in software/hardware some times. Credit for the tip goes to AyaReiko.

Increases FPS from 5 to 7 so it's a start!

Wasn't there a third episode to Half-Life 2 they were supposed to be finishing?

exactly what i was thinking

 

[DoPo]

Guys, please stop posting "Buy new computer" or "buy a new game".

Yeah, it also annoyed me while reading the thread. But there might be a fix- try adding -nofbo to the launch options - that disables some new OGL feature Valve apparently added and that feature is known to have faulty implementations in software/hardware some times. Credit for the tip goes to AyaReiko.

Increases FPS from 5 to 7 so it's a start!

Hey, it's a 50% increase! Well, 40% to be precise but it could be 50% if there is rounding going on.

Yeah, sorry it didn't work - it's just what AyaReiko mentioned and after a brief bit of reading, it seemed like a probable cause and a solution.

Might be a long shot but you can try 3D Analyze - it attempts to emulate missing graphics card features when you launch an application. It might work - I've mostly seen it work to actually make a game run on Intel chipsets, since otherwise the game would just die at start but considering HL is already running, it could increase performance. Or maybe not - I tried it once to see what was it about and a game that actually ran on my machine refused to do so with 3D Analyze. It's annoying and stupid, I know, and it's not guaranteed to work or do anything but it's worth giving it 5 minutes or something.

 

[Ziame]

snippanty

I don't really care about those features, but thanks for help it's just black texture here and there you know, static lighting and such

I am more worried about the precedent set in Steam. Half life players (however few of them may exist) have been stripped of one of the games features, without warning, and without even giving a reason for it. Y'know what I mean.

 

[The White Hunter]

Wait... Intel integrated? Really?

You might want to consider buying like a 7750 or something man they're like £80 and will change your experience completely given you have a PSU of about 400W...

It worked. It does not now. Besides, not like I can update a laptop. Nor should I, for a 15-year old game.

Yeah as I said elsewhere I skimmed over the OP and didnt catch the laptop bit. I also said it might well be a driver issue of some kind, because it really should just run on integrated graphics from the last 10 years or so.

 

[Ziame]

Wait... Intel integrated? Really?

You might want to consider buying like a 7750 or something man they're like £80 and will change your experience completely given you have a PSU of about 400W...

It worked. It does not now. Besides, not like I can update a laptop. Nor should I, for a 15-year old game.

Yeah as I said elsewhere I skimmed over the OP and didnt catch the laptop bit. I also said it might well be a driver issue of some kind, because it really should just run on integrated graphics from the last 10 years or so.

Whatever the reason, point stands - it worked, and now it does not Intel integrated drivers tho suck so much dick it should be rated M

 

[DoPo]

I have no idea what's happening. I don't know what any of these acronyms mean...

Seriously...let me repeat myself

Erm, there are three acronyms used:
D3D is short from Direct3D and that can just be substituted with DirectX - it's for rendering 3D stuff.
OGL, which is actually referred to OpenGL so it's not an unexplained acronym but at any rate, it's an open source alternative of DirectX
Finally, EAX which is known as EAX. The meaning behind the acronym is "environmental audio extension" but I actually had to look that up - I've usually seen it referred to EAX. It's for audio processing.

Well, there is also LAN and for the record, that's a "local area network" but I suppose you know it.

 

[The White Hunter]

Wait... Intel integrated? Really?

You might want to consider buying like a 7750 or something man they're like £80 and will change your experience completely given you have a PSU of about 400W...

It worked. It does not now. Besides, not like I can update a laptop. Nor should I, for a 15-year old game.

Yeah as I said elsewhere I skimmed over the OP and didnt catch the laptop bit. I also said it might well be a driver issue of some kind, because it really should just run on integrated graphics from the last 10 years or so.

Whatever the reason, point stands - it worked, and now it does not Intel integrated drivers tho suck so much dick it should be rated M

Indeed they do. See if there's any updates for mods you may be using or something, otherwise I wouldn't really know. What exactly is the CPU in your laptop? I can vouch that if it's "Celeron" of any description it's sentient and will decide what to play for itself, my laptop does it often.

It ran typing of the dead, now it doesn't, it wouldn't run Halo, now it does, etc.

 

[The White Hunter]

Wasn't there a third episode to Half-Life 2 they were supposed to be finishing?

Valve doesn't work on the same system as us for numbers, they work in base 3. Hence there is no actual 3.

Just 1, 2, 10, 11, 12, 20, etc.

They tried to get around the crippling deficiency with episodes but it just didn't work.