Poll: Suicide
- Thread starter Icehearted
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I have never understood this argument. So, you say it is selfish because they leave others to grieve of you I assume? I think you are the one being selfish for demanding that a person live with extreme depression for which could be years on end and will probably happen again in the future.x EvilErmine x said:
I laugh at the people thataccidently kill themselves doing something really truly stupid, the Darwin Award winners usually. If someone gets bullied into it, is in a depression spiral or just an old or sick person chooses to do it then no, thats as funny as killing kittens and puppies with a brick (sorry for the image).
I voted 'no because they need our help' however its debatable as to what this help should be. Generally a suicidal person has gone through so much crap that they no longer have the will to go on living, OR they are the morons who can't be bothered to try/want attention/just want to cost the taxpayer lots of money.
Depending on the motives and outlook of the suicidal person, some should definately be helped while for others it may be debatable. Theres always the question 'why should we try to stop someone killing themselves when there are better things people could be dealing with?'
An unsuccessful suicide attempt is usually a cry for help, because a truly determined person would rarely fail. ...All it takes is a jump out of a high building and death is very likely, on the other hand, most people take the easy option of cutting their wrists or taking an overdose of pills. Both of which very painfull and unlikely to succeed.
Anyway, mocking a person who wants to die has two potential outcomes: making the suicidal person more suicidal, or annoying them enough to change their minds.
Depending on the motives and outlook of the suicidal person, some should definately be helped while for others it may be debatable. Theres always the question 'why should we try to stop someone killing themselves when there are better things people could be dealing with?'
An unsuccessful suicide attempt is usually a cry for help, because a truly determined person would rarely fail. ...All it takes is a jump out of a high building and death is very likely, on the other hand, most people take the easy option of cutting their wrists or taking an overdose of pills. Both of which very painfull and unlikely to succeed.
Anyway, mocking a person who wants to die has two potential outcomes: making the suicidal person more suicidal, or annoying them enough to change their minds.
I always take a dig at suicidals if i know the reason and the reason sucks.
"Oh im too fat, i should kill myself" if you think like that, then do it. But if they say "Im depressed, and i dont know what to do" if i can, ill help them, but if the first thing they jump to is suicide then go for it, since its clearly been on your mind for a while.
"Oh im too fat, i should kill myself" if you think like that, then do it. But if they say "Im depressed, and i dont know what to do" if i can, ill help them, but if the first thing they jump to is suicide then go for it, since its clearly been on your mind for a while.
if someone tried to kill himself (with a sip of soapy water) because his girlfriend left him (after 3 months), then... yeah, you bet i'll laugh
if someone has metastases everywhere, cannot breathe and has unbearable pain? you bet i'll help them, and feel really sorry for their shitty sickness
if someone has serious mental issues? i won't applaud them for trying, but i'll support them the best i can to get whateer their problem is
if someone has metastases everywhere, cannot breathe and has unbearable pain? you bet i'll help them, and feel really sorry for their shitty sickness
if someone has serious mental issues? i won't applaud them for trying, but i'll support them the best i can to get whateer their problem is
While I generally find suicide an inherintly silly thing to do (because, let's face it, wherever we're going, heaven, hell or nowhere at all, there are unlikely to be videogames there) I wouldn't mock it. If that is what they want then far be it from me to tell them otherwise. Although I suppose mocking it wouldn't be all that bad. It'd make you look like a bit of asshole but really these things are subjective. If you're allowed to commit suicide (which people might find objectionable) then you should be allowed to mock people who commit suicide (which other people might find objectionable). If I'm honest this isn't something I've put a great deal of thought into. When I'm considering commiting suicide it's usually to obtain something through the use of a grenade jump, which is an entirely different thing.
Cool story bro.Novs said:
except I didn't say depressed people were cowards.
I said some people commit suicide because it's the easy way out.
Suicidal =/= depressed
what justifies suicide? (euthinasia?) and whats the difference?Daystar Clarion said:
oh and theres nothing "easy" about suicide, apart from what the movies tell you theres no painless clean way to kill yourself and often jsut in the moment you could have secodn thourghts
anyway what if somone has a mental disorder such as depression? and I mean clinical depression not just feeling down
suicide of coarse is a terrible thing and hurts the family more than anyone else
how ever I think at that point all logical thourght goes out the window
I think when people talk about suicide being selfless they see people like the Japanese firefighters that were trying to prevent a meltdown in the reactor by spraying it with water. What they did killed them, they knew it was going to kill them, and they did it anyway for the greater good.
But yeah that's a small minority. Most people that kill themselves suffer from depression or some other mental illness and what they do is they end their lives because they see no other way out. So should you make fun of them? No, try to get them help. This is one of the hardest things for people to do is to see the signs and act on them. Most people want to ignore them or laugh them off, or maybe be confused and think its selfless.
But yeah that's a small minority. Most people that kill themselves suffer from depression or some other mental illness and what they do is they end their lives because they see no other way out. So should you make fun of them? No, try to get them help. This is one of the hardest things for people to do is to see the signs and act on them. Most people want to ignore them or laugh them off, or maybe be confused and think its selfless.
Cause people are cruel and look at a person and say "You don't have any real problems, you don't deserve to feel that way." with out realizing just because someone has it worse doesn't mean you got it good.
I had a friend years ago who was suicidal, and even though I pretty much hate them now, that's never something I'd make fun of them over.
I'm not that much of a ****.
If you make fun of someone for having suicidal thoughts, I'd truly believe you're pretty heartless.
Edit: That's not to say I don't make jokes about suicide in general. I make dead baby jokes for chrissakes, any humour is acceptable humour as long as it's not directed at someone. Which isn't humour, that's just being a dick.
I'm not that much of a ****.
If you make fun of someone for having suicidal thoughts, I'd truly believe you're pretty heartless.
Edit: That's not to say I don't make jokes about suicide in general. I make dead baby jokes for chrissakes, any humour is acceptable humour as long as it's not directed at someone. Which isn't humour, that's just being a dick.
I have mocked, but then I found myself in their position a few times coming pretty close myself. Now I don't mock, its a decision you can make, I would never dissuade, only help them rationalize their choice, if they make it, so be it, some times it can do more good them harm for someone to, sometimes.
I don't think I could ever do it myself, seems a bit of a waste to kill someone as awesome as me. Although I would happily die for something, thats how I saw it, if I kill myself I die for nothing, id rather be a martyr
I don't think I could ever do it myself, seems a bit of a waste to kill someone as awesome as me. Although I would happily die for something, thats how I saw it, if I kill myself I die for nothing, id rather be a martyr
It's selfish because it's all about them and they never stop to consider the impact it will have on the lives of other people, suicide can drive a family apart and devastate the lives of the people around them so that they will never recover fully. But do they stop to consider this? No they don't they just think about them selves and screw everyone else who cares about them, loves them, or want to help them. Non of that matters to them, they wash they hands of all responsibility they have. Yeah so your really depressed? Then man up and ask for help, the people who truly care for you will stand by you and help you however they can no matter what. Nothing in life worth anything comes without pain and heartache. They take the easy way out, so yeah it is the height of selfishness.Womplord said:
So if you want to die you should force yourself to stay alive for the benefit of others? Thats a terrible reason for choosing to live. A Man Chooses, A Slave Obeysx EvilErmine x said:
If someone was seriously suicidal i dont think they would just go around telling everyone, if they were seriously depressed it would be kept inside, or between them and a psychologist
those who go around spouting oh im gonna end it all are usually just after attention and not actually considering doing it
those who go around spouting oh im gonna end it all are usually just after attention and not actually considering doing it
I've never understood the selfishness argument.
People are not really given many choices in this world. You don't choose your life circumstances, you don't choose to have a mental illness or to die of an agonizing degenerative disorder at age 30. But you can almost always choose to exist or not to exist, that's one of very few rights which can truly claim any kind of universality.
And you know what. If people want to mock that choice, so fucking what? It doesn't make it less of a choice, it just makes those people insecure little cunts trying and failing to reconcile themselves to death.
People who actually willingly kill themselves with perfect intention, it's generally a split second thing. They see an opportunity and take it in that moment because they literally can't take another second. There's very little which can be done in that case other than predicting the opportunities and trying to prevent them arising. Mock those people all you want, if you need to mock anyone. It won't change anything.
The people who think about suicide and plan it in detail and endlessly 'attempt', they don't generally want to die. They might be having trouble seeing the choice, and there are reasons for that which I don't really think it's acceptable to be ignorant of in the 21st century.
Those are the people who actually need intervention, and they're the people you're 'failing' by not taking seriously, because quite often those people do end up succeeding against their own better judgement.
On the subject of shitty lives, believe me, there are worse - I could throw out several real-life examples of worse right now from my own experience. That's not the point, the point is how you deal with it and how you react. Abuse as a child actually hardens you. It teaches you to dissociate, which won't always stop you killing yourself, but it means you can avoid dealing with things in the same way most people have to. Experiences are never comprable, and 'it can always be worse' doesn't cut it.
People are not really given many choices in this world. You don't choose your life circumstances, you don't choose to have a mental illness or to die of an agonizing degenerative disorder at age 30. But you can almost always choose to exist or not to exist, that's one of very few rights which can truly claim any kind of universality.
And you know what. If people want to mock that choice, so fucking what? It doesn't make it less of a choice, it just makes those people insecure little cunts trying and failing to reconcile themselves to death.
Actually, those are the people who generally need your help.dogstile said:
People who actually willingly kill themselves with perfect intention, it's generally a split second thing. They see an opportunity and take it in that moment because they literally can't take another second. There's very little which can be done in that case other than predicting the opportunities and trying to prevent them arising. Mock those people all you want, if you need to mock anyone. It won't change anything.
The people who think about suicide and plan it in detail and endlessly 'attempt', they don't generally want to die. They might be having trouble seeing the choice, and there are reasons for that which I don't really think it's acceptable to be ignorant of in the 21st century.
Those are the people who actually need intervention, and they're the people you're 'failing' by not taking seriously, because quite often those people do end up succeeding against their own better judgement.
On the subject of shitty lives, believe me, there are worse - I could throw out several real-life examples of worse right now from my own experience. That's not the point, the point is how you deal with it and how you react. Abuse as a child actually hardens you. It teaches you to dissociate, which won't always stop you killing yourself, but it means you can avoid dealing with things in the same way most people have to. Experiences are never comprable, and 'it can always be worse' doesn't cut it.