Poll: Teen Shot dead after attempting to mug man

[Macrobstar]

Yes the hard working Blue collar guy trying to feed his family is the bad guy here. *face palm*

If the blue collar guy is trying to take money that another fellow earned and needs to feed his family, then yes.
I've never udnerstood why criminals try justifying theft by saying they are just trying to feed their family. Get a real job and stop trying to take what others earned and need for their families.
Unless they are stealing from rich pricks who have millions of dollars horded in their basement. I'd congradulate them if they did that.

why? why celebrate the robbery of someone who has made something of there life?

 

[Jumpingbean3]

He wasright to shoot a warning shot or even with intention to injure but he wasn't right to shoot to kill. The mugger was 18 he probably would have run the moment Baker pulled his gun out. That said the bullets were hollow point and the man did stay with the dying mugger (although that may have been so that he didn't try to run before the police arrived) so it may be he intended to scare or merely injure the victim or that he only fired 8 shots in the confusion.

 

[Matt-the-twat]

Would have been better if he shot to incapacitate instead of shooting to kill, but at the end of the day the mugger would have been punished anyway, this was just a much harsher punishment than he was going to get. The mugger should have expected any punishment though if he was going to break the law so royally (even if death wasn't probable) he has to be prepared to deal with the consequences. Well I hope he thought it was worth it.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

snip

snip

Sorry for finding the death of an unarmed teenager morally repugnant?

He should of just pointed the gun at him,not shoot him!This is what happens when you buy a gun without thinking about why you actually need it.No Baker wasn't right,atleast when buying a gun learn how to use it.You can't just go around killing everyone who tries to mug you,sometimes you should just go with it(Or buy something safer like a taser or pepper spray).

This. I agree with this 100%. "Shoot to kill" should not be the first reaction.

 

[X10J]

8 shots seems a bit excessive to me. On the other hand, excessive is kind of the sympathetic nervous system's thing.

I wasn't there so I don't know just how intense the ordeal was, but from what I read I don't think that the mugger's death was right or fair; but I can't say that it wasn't justified.

People fighting back is one of the hazzards of mugging people; if you don't want to take the risk then maybe you should't take the job.

Just my current thoughts on the subject. I'll probably vote yes, and by yes I mean "at least justifiable."

 

[Monshroud]

While the # of shots may seem excessive to some, only 4 shots hit the guy, so Baker was probably jacked up on adreniline and shaking.

When someone decides to assault another person and the first guy dies because of it, that is his own fault. If he hadn't decided to try and mug the guy, he would be alive.

 

[Lord Kloo]

-snip-

I simply can't fathom how you and a few others in this thread have jumped from self defense to execution. They are two completely different things.

With execution, you have a crime that has already been committed where the outcome has been determined and a criminal that is in custody and no longer a threat to anyone, regardless of what he did.

Self defense on the other had has a criminal actively attacking someone and a victim that has no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

Judging these two scenarios by the same standards is akin to judging fire by it's liquidity. It just does not make sense.

As for your views on self defense... wow. So you are so intent on being judged as better than anyone that would would let yourself be beaten and even killed? What about other peoples lives? What if a loved one was being beaten? Would you not intervene because the attacker deserves to be protected as much as the victim?

Seriously dude, it's one thing to be against violence but it's a totally different ballpark to say it's wrong to defend yourself at all.

If you're going to be allowed to kill someone on the spot for an offense then you might as well have them executed afterwards if you didn't kill them in the process.

I do indeed intend to be judged as better, but more importantly I want to be better than everyone else and I would be quite happy if everyone else joined in and decided to try and make the world a better place.

Also, I can't kill, I know if I did it would be worse than dying myself (I wouldn't have to live with it), but we must remember that this kid had a family and they grieve at his loss as much as Baker's family would have done. He wasn't wrong to fight back but he shouldn't have killed the kid or shot at him as shooting at people has a reasonable forseeablility that someone will die.

True you may disagree with everything I said but thats fine, I know its personal and you don't have to believe it just don't hassle me over the issue. I'd rather take a hit than hit someone else because it usually ends better..

 

[Trildor]

To all the people saying he should've shot him in the kneecap or the arm or something: there's no "safe" place to shoot somebody. For starters there's arteries everywhere, and if they get hit you're pretty much screwed.

 

[Hiphophippo]

i have a child. i would not hesitate to take the life of someone i felt was trying to rob me of a long life of parenthood.

 

[AngloDoom]

An armed man goes jogging with $500 on his person at midnight?

Dodgy much?

Either way, the guy panicked and it's totally understandable why he did what he did...but four shots?

If people think this is extreme, they are against guns. There's no reason if he's armed and panicked not to pull the trigger like crazy. If the law allows him, then he's totally fine in my opinion. If I get into a fight, I'm not going to punch once, assess the damage, consider another, then punch again. I'm going to punch like a maniac and leg it: he just did the shooty-equivalent.

 

[duchaked]

yes...
he was legally armed
for safety esp while jogging at night
he reacted because he feared for his life

...The guy was being mugged. His assailants were physically attacking him and he had a permit to carry the weapon. Baker was in the right from my perspective. The only problem I see is that he shot the teenager 4 times, but that's about it.

If you read where he said he had blurred vision, which a good crack to the head will do, he probably just kept pulling the trigger til he was damn sure the threat was neutralized. On top of that he probably panicked, most people aren't trained for situations like that.

yea he kinda overdid it, but if I was in that situation I probably would freak and be a bit more hyped, so it doesn't not make sense heh

 

[Scolar Visari]

I don't think lethal force is ever justified. He could have shot him in the leg, or arm, or something.

You need to understand that this is a civilian not a trained police man or military unit.

I understood that perfectly. It doesn't take training to realize that even threatening the kid with the gun would have stopped him.

EDIT: Also, the kid was shot four times. How is that not excessive?

How many times does the police shouting "STOP POLICE!!" actually stop people on the first try? How many times do people still run from or attack multiple trained officers? Hindsight is 20/20 no? Maybe threatening them would have scared them off, but it seems like this gentleman was too busy getting cold-clocked but some muggers in the middle of the night to decide what the most moral thing to do would be.

He fired that many shots because:

1. It was dark and he couldn't see who the attackers were very well.

2. He had just gotten punched in the face.

3. No little X pops up when you hit your target in real life. A bullet can leave the barrel of a gun at a couple thousand feet per second and be through a person's body before they even realize they're hit.

4. You fire until they're no longer a threat. Any police officer can tell you that.

 

[Penguinness]

When you're going through training to aquire a pistol license, for instance. I take it you have to pass a test and fire a weapon or something?

And if you do, then the gun won't be aimed at another person would it? If I was in that situation, there'd be such a fear of being forced into that situation and having to shoot it at someone.. I'd probably turn away and pull the trigger as many times as I could.

 

[Ensiferum]

Baker had every right to defend himself. In that situation when it's dark, you're outnumbered and you don't know what the assailant is armed with, the smart thing to do is take immediate action to protect yourself as best you can.

 

[Android2137]

Was he right to shoot? Yes.

Was he right to shoot that many times? No.

I don't think it was intentional. When you're scared for your life, you panic and are more likely to do more than is necessary.

 

[team star pug]

In that situation, I would have shot the assailent in the legs, perhaps a non lethal shot, or I might have fired a warning shot.

I do believe it was right of him to defend himself.

 

[duchaked]

Yay! I found a sane person(according to poll, it's 31 so far)! This thread is starting to terrify me.

ok that's a bit far kiddo

I do agree that the man was in his right to defend himself, and maybe he did panic and overdo it, however by the book what he did was fine

but I don't disagree that non-lethal force is an equally viable option...and admittedly this guy probably should have been smarter with the whole jogging at night in a sketch neighborhood (maybe) with $500 in his pocket heh

 

[-Samurai-]

It was totally justified.

The guy was carrying money, and he didn't want to lose it. How many of you are willing to just hand over your hard earned money to some lazy criminal?

8 shots? That's fine. I'd love to see anyone here get attacked and fire any less. When you believe your life is at stake, you're not going to put your life on 1 bullet in the leg. You're going to fire everything you have to make sure it's them on the ground and not you.

Explain to me how concealed carry protects against mugging [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.256773-Explain-to-me-how-concealed-carry-protects-against-a-mugging?page=1] has just been answered.