Poll: Teen Shot dead after attempting to mug man

[Syntax Man]

No one "deserves to die" but at the end of the day it was the kids own damn fault, the day a man could be sentenced to jail time for defending himself under any circumstances is a sad day for justice. Perhaps this will remind potential muggers that some people are armed and to mug is to risk ones own life.


Not saying that its right, no one was in the right here, but self defense should never be a crime.

 

[matrix3509]

Man coming over here from the weekly 2nd amendment thread is fucking hilarious.

 

[outcesticide69]

he was knocked on the ground and fearing for his life. He shot the guy 4 times because he got punched in the eye and couldnt see straight, you keep shooting until you think you're safe. At that time i wouldnt be thinking about how many shots im firing is justifiable, im thinking its either kill or be killed.

 

[BrionJames]

like stated in another thread it's easy to miss with a handgun. I know, I've owned one for a little while now and am just starting to understand where the sights are set up to hit. Being fixed sights, I can't adjust them so that it's zeroed to my style of shooting, but if someone attacks you, especially to guys looking to beat your head in and take your money, then you have every right to defend yourself in any manner possible to make them stop. It's tragic when someone dies because of their criminal action but they chose that path and well...when you play you pay.

 

[Tilted_Logic]

I'd say Baker had every right to do what he did, although as the sister of the mugger states 8 shots being fired does seem a little high. I guess in the heat of the moment anything can happen.

It is tragic the teen died though, at such a young age there's always hope he could have become a better person with time.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

Not even remotely questionable.

There is no legal reason not to fire eight times. In fact, most police would tell you that you should do JUST THAT. Running away while under attack is an extremely good way to get killed. Attacking someone is attacking someone, it doesn't matter if the defender knows the attacker has a weapon: first, the attacker might have a concealed weapon and second, it's not as though people can't be killed or seriously harmed without weapons.

Unfortunately, police and court procedurals on tv like to drum up the drama by having assailants use these sorts of excuses to try to get out of punishment. Realistically, none of these are even remotely justifiable excuses and would never hold up for a MOMENT in an actual court.

 

[Savvz]

Little shit deserved it. If you mug someone in a state that allows concealed carry, you run the risk of getting shot.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

'I know that he thought my brother had a gun,' said Dianela Gonzalez, Mustelier's sister.

'But I mean, it was eight shots fired. How do you shoot someone eight times in self-defence? That makes no sense.'

Does this remind anyone else of the book The Outsider by Albert Camus, where the EXACT same argument was used against the protagonist? Why does it matter to people how MANY times you shot someone. They're going to die after the first maybe second shot, it doesn't matter what the final number is.

OT: Baker is completely without fault here, imo. i mean he was punched in the fucking face, hence he was attacked. After that, he just happened to have the better circumstances to survive.
Kids, don't mug. You'll be shot and the shooter will, rightfully, be able to walk away.

 

[TheDarkestDerp]

Kids shouldn't have tried to rob him, simple as that. You never know what kind of crazy person you're about to be a jerkmoe to in this world. The "defenseless old lady" you cut off in traffic with your windows down and stereo pumping might just speed up, road cuss you and open fire. Hence, best to be nice...

So far, it seems many people are trying to use hypothetical arguments, or moral range of suggested degrees... "Well, he could've just drawn his gun" or "He could have fired a warning shot." But how about "THEY could've gone home and read a friggin' book."? or maybe "THEY could have decided to not risk their own health by impeding upon the livelihood of a total stranger."

 

[vento 231]

i hate to use the "slippery slope" fallacy, but well... it is. where do you draw the line? in Montana, where i live, a Wal-mart employee recently shot another when they got in an argument. the state had recently passed a law similar to Florida's "stand your ground" law, and he claimed he felt his life was in danger (even though they were both at work, in Wal-mart...). who's to say if he was right or wrong? all i know is someone got shot at Wal-mart over a stupid disagreement and a potentially dangerous law, setting an even more dangerous precedent.

granted, in Baker's case, his life was more clearly in danger, but shooting him 4 times seems excessive. idk... not gonna pass judgement here. on one hand the mugger deserved it, but i just see this leading to bad things.

I agree. What if the shooter simply pulled out his gun? Would the mugger have fled upon realising the danger to his life? Or even just a bullet to the leg. I don't think the shooter should be punished but this is a case of excessive force.

If the shot to the leg missed? DO you think that it may be a possibility that the robber got angry and could it have been possible that in a scuffle the robber got the gun. What if said robber decided to take the mans life because that man tried to shoot him in self defence?
OP: If I was there he would be dead before he hit the ground.

 

[Shadowtek]

i would have done the same thing. oh well, one less punk ass gangsta wannabe in the world.

 

[vento 231]

You know he could of just pistol whipped him, or shot him in the leg in self defence, rather than shoot him eight times with the intention of making him dead.

So no, I don't think he had a right to kill him (no one has the right to kill anybody no matter what they do).

Maybe then he could give him a hug and a band-aid, hand over his wallet and hand him the gun to finish the job? What if he missed? Any peice of shit that steals what people work for is scum. What if he had a newborn and his baby didn't have any food or diapers, what if that's what that money was for? I would shoot untill they stopped twitching.

 

[TNPspectre]

I've made an account after being a constant visitor to this site simply to state a few very critical facts that people may not understand about firearms.

1. I would first like to point out this gun (link below) it is a model of 1911 made specifically for conceal carry there is also a slightly smaller version. I've seen a few people say he had a laser sight which is unacceptable most likely he had what this gun has which is made specifically for getting on target much faster and at close range under duress also for panicked *assumed one handed shooting a 50% hit rate with a .45 auto of any type is relatively good.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/crimson-carry-ii/pro-crimson-carry-ii

2. The 8 shots is too many is a very poor argument along with criticizing his ammo choice. Again I am assuming single handed shooting with a compact .45 acp pistol with a relatively light trigger pull since most models of .45 feature a single action design the recoil alone can be enough to "bump fire" the weapon making repeated shots common and very fast possibly emptying the magazine in seconds. Also jhp ammunition is used by many different L.E.A.'s and civilians. It is the best self defense choice not for high damage but for reduced collateral damage it is made to expand on impact to reduce velocity causing minimal blow back.

3. The warning shot aim for the leg argument. There isn't alot to say that others haven't already but I personally am alarmed at the amount of people saying this I only have one thing to say on this how safe do you feel if your neighbors started shooting guns in the air on new years as celebration I think the cops would show up very quick. * hint BECAUSE ITS DANGEROUS

Anyway I doubt this will change anyone's mind about anything but it has to get out there.

 

[Broceus]

well, I read through seven pages, think that he was justified.

but that doesn't matter:

you guys lost a lot of nerd cred with me today. you see, the shooter was named thomas baker.
seriously? No one made a joke about "does where a scarf?" or "why doesn't he time travel and make so the kid lived?"

seriously!?!?!? NO ONE!?

 

[trophykiller]

Natural selection at work people, move along.

Simply put, if you try to harm an innocent, you deserve everything he/she throws at you. If they light you on fire then feed you to velociraptors, so be it.

 

[vento 231]

What the hell is this? Disproportionate retribution? Are we going to be advocating executing shoplifters next?

Edit: Also?

But I mean, it was eight shots fired. How do you shoot someone eight times in self-defence? That makes no sense.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346574/Jogger-Thomas-Baker-shot-dead-unarmed-mugger-released-charge.html#ixzz1BLBK1jRr

This.

Do me a favor please....
Pull your index finger 8 times, count how long it takes. For me it was about 2 seconds. Is it possible with fear, adrenaline and uncertainty combined, you may just be scared as hell, and realize that the more times you pull this trigger the more likely it is that you live, or even are able to put food on the table for your family? Think about sex, that's very primal. Have you ever been completely lost and found yourself almost out of body when instinct takes over? Well, I'm guessing that this was a very primal feeling, possibly uncontrollable and he was definately not in the state of mind were in right now. That seems to break it down enough to realize that this was self defense.

 

[macfluffers]

He's obviously not an experienced mugger or anything, he didn't deserve to just "die". Stop being ignorant.

I say he did deserve it. He didn't start by asking for money, he started by hitting the guy. This shows his obvious inexperience as a mugger, but it's no excuse. If you start wailing on a guy for no good reason, you deserve to be shot.