Poll: That old question Fantasy or Sci fi

Scorekeeper

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verdant monkai said:
No problem I would much rather be friends than argue, my apologies for saying you have no life, that was a rude assumption.
As for the planets I accept your judgement on them.

As for Sci fi / fantasy, I have never found a good example of it. I saw this thing called Star Grunt once (it was as bad as it sounds) and I vaguely remember others but they to the best of my knowledge were not brilliant. Could you provide some example you have enjoyed?
No problem. And thank you. :)

Star Wars, The Matrix, and The Avengers are science fantasy movies. The first two feature "Chosen Ones", prophecies, magical powers, etc. Doctor Who has evolved into science fantasy over the years. Final Fantasy VII is a good example of the genre, as is Chrono Trigger. Kingdom Hearts is firmly on the fantasy side of this, though it features laser-armed spaceships traveling between fantasy worlds. BioShock is this, as one of its themes, "science run amok", places it sci-fi, while shooting lightning, fire, ice, bees, what have you from your hands places it in fantasy. For novels, Heroes Die by Matthew Stover is this.

EDIT:

Science fantasy often overlaps with subgenres like cyberpunk (Matrix) and steampunk (BioShock. I know steam isn't actually used in BioShock but the game's evocative of the aesthetics associated with steampunk. Some, like Star Wars are sci-fi with fantasy, while others are fantasy with sci-fi, as is the case with Kingdom Hearts.
 

Wintermoot

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I like cyberpunk although I also enjoy mixes between Sci-Fi and Fantasy like Star Wars and Doctor Who.
 

Scorekeeper

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In a way, it's silly to define something based on superficial characteristics like whether it features dragons or spaceships. If a fantasy book were to deal with science, I'd be more likely to think of it as sci-fi than I would if a sci-fi book were to deal with psychic powers over actual science.
 

verdant monkai

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Scorekeeper said:
verdant monkai said:
No problem I would much rather be friends than argue, my apologies for saying you have no life, that was a rude assumption.
As for the planets I accept your judgement on them.

As for Sci fi / fantasy, I have never found a good example of it. I saw this thing called Star Grunt once (it was as bad as it sounds) and I vaguely remember others but they to the best of my knowledge were not brilliant. Could you provide some example you have enjoyed?
No problem. And thank you. :)

Star Wars, The Matrix, and The Avengers are science fantasy movies. The first two feature "Chosen Ones", prophecies, magical powers, etc. Doctor Who has evolved into science fantasy over the years. Final Fantasy VII is a good example of the genre, as is Chrono Trigger. Kingdom Hearts is firmly on the fantasy side of this, though it features laser-armed spaceships traveling between fantasy worlds. BioShock is this, as one of its themes, "science run amok", places it sci-fi, while shooting lightning, fire, ice, bees, what have you from your hands places it in fantasy. For novels, Heroes Die by Matthew Stover is this.

EDIT:

Science fantasy often overlaps with subgenres like cyberpunk (Matrix) and steampunk (BioShock. I know steam isn't actually used in BioShock but the game's evocative of the aesthetics associated with steampunk. Some, like Star Wars are sci-fi with fantasy, while others are fantasy with sci-fi, as is the case with Kingdom Hearts.
Now FF7 I have played and really enjoyed you are right there it is a very good example of a combination of the two.
I tend to categorize stuff like the Avengers into the super hero sub genre.
A lot of people are saying that the Star Wars is a mix technically thats true I suppose but, it is generally accepted that Star Wars is a sci fi right.
Although perhaps if I wrote a novel about my romance with Proton, with her Neutron husband as the bad guy that would be a more aptly named science fiction? I propose a new term for this genre FU FI (future fiction) see how much better that sounds?

p.s Hope I have proved my ego is not the size of a Death Star now.
 

Scorekeeper

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verdant monkai said:
Now FF7 I have played and really enjoyed you are right there it is a very good example of a combination of the two.
I tend to categorize stuff like the Avengers into the super hero sub genre.
A lot of people are saying that the Star Wars is a mix technically thats true I suppose but, it is generally accepted that Star Wars is a sci fi right.
Although perhaps if I wrote a novel about my romance with Proton, with her Neutron husband as the bad guy that would be a more aptly named science fiction? I propose a new term for this genre FU FI (future fiction) see how much better that sounds?

p.s Hope I have proved my ego is not the size of a Death Star now.
Superhero stuff tends to get its own category, which makes sense, since its unified by more than just what kinds of devices you find (magic amulet vs personal shield generator). Classifying it superficially highlights the coexistence of magic, gods, robots, powered armor, etc. Classifying it based on what it sets out to do highlights its superheroic nature, which tells the reader/viewer more useful information than whether it's sci-fi, fantasy, or both.

Star Wars is often viewed as space opera, a subgenre of sci-fi. However, there are a few things that make its classification as sci-fi not work so well. First, it's set a great distance away and in the past, similar to fairy/folk tales and more modern versions of fantasy. Sci-fi tends to be set in the future, even if only the near-future. Second, it has magic, prophecies, and whatnot, classic staples of the fantasy genre. Third, I believe George Lucas has referred to it as "space fantasy".

Yeah, that'd probably be sci-fi. I'm not terribly fond of genre classifications, myself. A romance/horror/sci-fi novel would be awfully hard to place in just one section of a bookstore.

P.S. You seemed to prove that when you apologized and continued in a mature and non-antagonistic manner. I apologize for implying that you had that character flaw. I think we've moved on.
 

Johnny Impact

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The line isn't really a line, it's quite blurry. Take classic Star Trek, for example. Every third episode involved some capricious being with godlike power treating the Enterprise and its crew like toys -- just like the Greco-Roman gods used to do in old stories. Nonhumans were usually humans with body paint and prosthetic antennae. The show dealt with mind control, interspecies conflict, trust and betrayal, and other universal themes. It wasn't really about the technology, the science, at all. The "science" was just some hogwash the writers made up. Trek was a fantasy, it just took place in space. Convert Trek to historical fantasy and you'd have the same show. Think about it: replace the starship with an ocean-going vessel, the space frontier with unexplored seas, the godlike beings with genies or Olympian deities, phasers with crossbows or magic wands, pastel-colored nonhumans with elves and trolls........is there any reason whatsoever the characters couldn't have had exactly the same personalities and relationships, any reason the same conflicts couldn't have occurred?
 

SoranMBane

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Depends on the medium, actually. While I like both no matter what, I tend to prefer fantasy in my novels and comics, and sci-fi in my games and films. Probably because the high adventure and intrigue of fantasy are more suited to the longer, slower-paced format of a novel or the more stylized imagery of a comic, while sci-fi provides a lot more of the kind of spectacle and new ideas that make games and movies so exciting. I suppose sci-fi wins out overall, though, since my favourite medium is games and the vast majority of my favourite games are sci-fi.
 

Cannibal Johnson

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who said this but I like both mainly because of Warhammer 40k. I'ts one of those things that's hard to classify. It obviously has Sci-Fi but it also has Fantasy elements mixed in.
 

loc978

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I tend to view most "fantasy" tropes with derision, mostly because I've seen them play out too many times before.

That said, hard sci-fi, depending on the subject matter and writing, is usually a bit boring and laden with a bit too much technical jargon.

But I lean toward sci-fi, simply because of the sheer volume of cookie-cutter generic fantasy.

Also... Star Wars isn't sci-fi. It's actually a fantasy space opera, and one of the better fantasy works out there. Mass Effect started as a sci-fi, and then went all in for a space fantasy revamp in the second installment. WarHammer 40k... space fantasy through and through, very few sci-fi elements.
 

Lunar Templar

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fantasy

simply because there's more fun stuff in 'fantasy' and game wise, more empowerment.

scifi games generally have as a dood with a gun, mowing doods down at a distance.

oh joy ....

fantasy general has you as a big burly dood mowing doods down up close or as a dood mowing doods down with magics.

magic is better then guns, and you can do a lot more with it.
swords are better then guns because guns are for cowards :D
 

OZWIN

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Not a fan of either quite frankly, I'd rather watch something more real but that is just me.
 

shrekfan246

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I popped in to this thread just to ask "Why do people need to prefer one?" just to see that a bunch of other people had asked already... now I don't know what to do.

I dunno what to say, OP, I don't prefer one over the other. I like The Witcher 2 and World of Warcraft just as much as I like Star Trek, Star Wars, or Mass Effect.

I suppose magic for the sake of magic is a bit more interesting than "Biologically engineered abilities harnessed and focused via the use of some sort of technology chip", but then you get something like Star Wars that has "Magic! In space!" (Ignoring the "Magic! In bacteria!" thing that George Lucas added later...)

Swords and axes are more viscerally satisfying than guns, but then you get something like Painkiller that has a gun that shoots shurikens and lightning. Or the mini-nuke launcher from Mass Effect 2. Or any countless number of bolter-type weapons from games like Halo or Gears of War where the shot lodges a bolt in the target that explodes a few seconds later. Or the shotguns in Borderlands that did a wide wave-like spread that bounced and ricocheted off of things.

So I dunno.

EDIT: I suppose that overall, fantasy is a bit more appealing to me than strict "Science Fiction", as things like 2001: A Space Odyssey feel very overblown and bland to me, while The Lord of the Rings is something that I can really get into.
 

TheUsername0131

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lisadagz said:
verdant monkai said:
Fighting in Sci-fi is not as good for me, because there are generally GUNS.
This is my main reason for liking fantasy over sci-fi, not necessarily 'cause swords are better but because MAGIC. Fireballs! People turning into bears and biting their enemies' heads off! Heck yeah!

And sure, in sci-fi you can have gadgets and stuff that are techno-mage-y, but they spoil it by having to make it realistic and plausable by giving it sciencey reasons for being able to work. With fantasy it's just I AM A BEING OF PURE AWESOMENESS HAVE SOME LIGHTENING BOLTS.

... Perhaps I am a simple soul who likes simple things...

To clarify, your proposition is that "techno-mage-y" and "sciencey reasons" spoil the fantasy by providing explanations for how stuff works in the context of the setting. But that with fantasy it is simply magic.

...Then how does the magic work?

What is the mechanism that allows characters to hurl fireballs and lightning bolts?
 

TheUsername0131

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shrekfan246 said:
I suppose magic for the sake of magic is a bit more interesting than "Biologically engineered abilities harnessed and focused via the use of some sort of technology chip", but then you get something like Star Wars that has "Magic! In space!" (Ignoring the "Magic! In bacteria!" thing that George Lucas added later...)
"magic for the sake of magic."

Even if there are no smokes and mirrors involved, no apparent circuits, wires, or purposefully moving parts. There would still be principle by which it would operate.
 

lord Claincy Ffnord

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Frankly, I like both, which I like more depends entirely on how I feel about it at the time, this holds true for books, movies and games. Although I do love it when there is both. (Only when its well done though, and I don't mean just something like mass effects biotics but more than that)
 

shrekfan246

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TheUsername0131 said:
"magic for the sake of magic."

Even if there are no smokes and mirrors involved, no apparent circuits, wires, or purposefully moving parts. There would still be principle by which it would operate.
Did you really quote me just to be pedantic? If I really need to explain what I meant, then fine:
"Magic in any instance where "magic", defined as a supernatural or preternatural phenomenon creatable by a character with an affinity toward the arcane, is present in a story but is not described in explicit detail how to work and is instead designated to simply work behind the limits the writer creates, is a bit more interesting than "Biologically engineered abilities harnessed and focused via the use of some sort of technology chip"."

Is that better for you?

Of course there are going to be principles behind how it works, I don't believe that I ever implied otherwise. But it holds my interest better when there's mystery because it isn't explained in excruciating detail.

It's magic and ridiculous pseudo-science techno-babble. There's no need to take it so seriously.
 

TheUsername0131

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shrekfan246 said:
Did you really quote me just to be pedantic?
Yes.

shrekfan246 said:
If I really need to explain what I meant, then fine:
"Magic in any instance where "magic", defined as a supernatural or preternatural phenomenon creatable by a character with an affinity toward the arcane, is present in a story but is not described in explicit detail how to work and is instead designated to simply work behind the limits the writer creates, is a bit more interesting than "Biologically engineered abilities harnessed and focused via the use of some sort of technology chip"."

Is that better for you?
Certainly.

shrekfan246 said:
Of course there are going to be principles behind how it works, I don't believe that I ever implied otherwise. But it holds my interest better when there's mystery because it isn't explained in excruciating detail.

It's magic and ridiculous pseudo-science techno-babble. There's no need to take it so seriously.
I made no implication that this is a matter of severity.

But it holds my interest better when there's a mystery accompanied by a reveal for the curiosity.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sci-Fi. The problem with fantasy is that those keys to power are the work of god or the unknowable weave of magic or the threads of fate. Ultimate success or failure hinges upon powers outside the control of even the rooks. Sci-Fi replaces all of that with something even the pawns can control: being clever.

Just look at Doctor Who - a science fiction show that has run for more than 700 episodes and a few dozen films. The Doctor prevails because he's intelligent and far too romantic to give up on a stupid cause.
 

gazumped

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TheUsername0131 said:
To clarify, your proposition is that "techno-mage-y" and "sciencey reasons" spoil the fantasy by providing explanations for how stuff works in the context of the setting. But that with fantasy it is simply magic.

...Then how does the magic work?

What is the mechanism that allows characters to hurl fireballs and lightning bolts?
Well, some stories/games/etc do explain it to some extent, such as greatness of willpower or it got granted by a divine being, but it's (as far as I've ever seen) always something vague or at least something that wouldn't be plausible in real life.

Don't get me wrong, devices that you need a diagram to explain how it works is cool too, but there's just a satisfying kind of feeling when a character can hurl fireballs "just because, alright?"