Poll: The CIA
- Thread starter Gaz_mcMillan
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You know what, I think you're right - nowadays we're so used to seeing danger and intrigue at the cinema, on TV and in our games that I think the majority of gamers would think it rather awesome to know what was going on behind the scenes, on just how kick-ass the agencies really are when they get things rightMask of 1000 Faces said:
Does that count as a terrorist attack? :SCIA said:
Which is completely unreliable as the "information" has been obtained through torture. History has proven that torture doesn't work.Therumancer said:
The reason torture as "bad rap" is because it is a "bad thing".Therumancer said:
It is thought about in such "idiotic" terms because torture is "idiocy".
For years intelligence gathering was done properly. The CIA and other groups knew how to do their jobs effectively because they didn't have all the digital shit they rely on now. Then 9/11 happened and they realized that the spy satelites and NORAD and early warning systems and AWACs and other new fangled crap were totally ineffective against the enemy they were facing.
They needed different methods of intelligence gathering, but had lost all they had learned over the past century because their thought traditional on-the-ground methods of intelligence gathering were quaint and unreliable. In desperation they turned to torturing suspects and holding them in places like Gitmo and Abu Gharib. And you know what? It was just as useless as spy satelites. Bin Laden is still out there, Mullar Omah is still out there, attacks are still going on, and the world is no more closer to security.
Torture doesn't work.
Ha! The propagandists certainly got to you didn't they? So ready to give up your constitutional rights for the illusion of freedom.Darkside360 said:
The biggest enemy of the US is the enemy within, the enemy that keeps trying to obliterate your rights given under the Constitution of the United States of America. They claim it's to protect you but without our principles, what is left to protect?
Cuddly, torture works wonderfully when conducted properly by people who can analyze the information. Simply put you don't like the idea, a lot of people don't, but history has never shown that it doesn't work, quite the opposite. This is why it's a "human rights" issue and there wouldn't be a demand to use it if it wasn't reliable.
The thing is that when conducting a proper "hard" interrogation you are going to have people handy with an idea of the whole situation to put what is extracted into context, not sitting there simply accepting anything the guy tells you.
As far as the admissability, well the entire point is to bypass the legal system and give groups like the CIA a free hand when it comes to intenational issues.
Other than personally not liking it, really there isn't much you can say about it.
As far as the "failure" of things like Gitmo and the like, they failed because they were under public scrutiny and had people crawling all over them, making cases based on the existing laws/standards. Had we changed those laws/standards and kept the public from being involved at all, then it would have been something entirely differant.
Had we conducted outselves more efficiently and not held back due to moral kid gloves (our own society fighting itself effectively) we probably would have nailed Bin Ladin and Omar.
Though admittedly when it comes to Mullah Omar it's more of a touchy subject. We actually had every reason to believe that he (and the Taliban) would support us against Al Queda once they struck against the US since we pretty much gave them control of Afghanistan by helping them force out the Russians, and taking the pro-USSR faction (now the "Northern Alliance") out of the picture.
Honestly, had we simply blitzed Afghanistan unannounced we could have accomplished a lot, but that relies on Hindsight, and I really can't blame the goverment for thinking that Omar would have backed us and leading diplomatically.
At any rate we're going to have to agree to disagree, I don't see us having a meeting of the minds on this paticular issue.
The thing is that when conducting a proper "hard" interrogation you are going to have people handy with an idea of the whole situation to put what is extracted into context, not sitting there simply accepting anything the guy tells you.
As far as the admissability, well the entire point is to bypass the legal system and give groups like the CIA a free hand when it comes to intenational issues.
Other than personally not liking it, really there isn't much you can say about it.
As far as the "failure" of things like Gitmo and the like, they failed because they were under public scrutiny and had people crawling all over them, making cases based on the existing laws/standards. Had we changed those laws/standards and kept the public from being involved at all, then it would have been something entirely differant.
Had we conducted outselves more efficiently and not held back due to moral kid gloves (our own society fighting itself effectively) we probably would have nailed Bin Ladin and Omar.
Though admittedly when it comes to Mullah Omar it's more of a touchy subject. We actually had every reason to believe that he (and the Taliban) would support us against Al Queda once they struck against the US since we pretty much gave them control of Afghanistan by helping them force out the Russians, and taking the pro-USSR faction (now the "Northern Alliance") out of the picture.
Honestly, had we simply blitzed Afghanistan unannounced we could have accomplished a lot, but that relies on Hindsight, and I really can't blame the goverment for thinking that Omar would have backed us and leading diplomatically.
At any rate we're going to have to agree to disagree, I don't see us having a meeting of the minds on this paticular issue.
The animated film was awesome. The series was blasphemy.cuddly_tomato said:
...There was a live action film?
Here is a clip.ChromeAlchemist said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUa1NSqSbZc&feature=related
But seriously - forget about it. I am a huge fan of the Manga cartoon (Birth + Demon Bird), and imported that on DVD because I was so psyched for it, but I really wish I hadn't.
...what?cuddly_tomato said:
The funniest thing is, as soon as I saw the guy, I thought 'is he french?' then I saw the text around the video and heard the dialogue...I don't know what to say really.
Kill it with fire?
