Poll: The line between cheating and playing really, really well.

[Jacco]

Last night, I was playing Grifball on Halo 4 with my friend and we ended up in a match with a clan of 4 guys (one of them was an SR134). Anyway, the game started and it immediately became clear that we (my friend and I and the two random people we were paired with) were up again an MLG level clan.
Annoying for sure, but legit.

Where my problem came in was when they locked down the map. One guy would stand in the middle while the other guy scored the ball. Then the ball would respawn right were the first guy was standing and he would run with it. The other two ran interference. Needless to say, the match was over in about 3.5 minutes. We tried again and they pulled the same tactic.

My friend kept telling me they were just playing really well but it was hella pissing me off because in the three matches we played we scored exactly 0 times.

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

Anyway, what do you think? Were they cheating because they had such a distinct advantage? Or am I just being a baby?

Edit:

Let me just be clear here: a lot of people are saying cheating is only when you exploit the game in unintended ways.

The way I see it, and I guess I failed to get it across in the post, is that they were exploiting the non-ranked nature of the game to get easy wins/kills.

 

[Glover09]

If they were a MLG crew, then you were probably used as training dummies during a practice session. As burningly frutrating as it is, it's not cheating because they weren't doing anything that defied the game's standard operation. Controlling a map isn't terribly hard, but the coordination can be horrible to attempt.

In short: Sounds legit, but still sucks.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

eh sucks, but me and my friends do that to people all the time, just gotta

A) play against different people in a different mode

or

B) get better teammates or synergy with your friend(s)

me and my friends won't play halo for 5-6 months at a time, then we go in and smash teams to bit with our chemistry and communication, it doesn't mean we are cheating, we are just using our communication to its fullest.

 

[sanquin]

That's a problem you always have the chance of running in to in online gaming. Back in my more active WoW games the same problem happened in BG's with premade teams, where they would just steamroll over our team of randoms. But it's not cheating. Cheating would mean you actually have an unfair, unintended advantage. Just using coordinated, better tactics is not an unfair, unintended advantage as your team could do it too. They don't, but they could.

 

[skywolfblue]

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

That's not cheating.

Cheating is literally breaking the game, via bug, exploit or other mechanic.

You lost because your side couldn't coordinate as well. In essence, they won because they played better.

There's a separate issue of the matchmaking system being rather poor quality (imagine it like a team of middle-schoolers having to face off against a pro college NBA team) that's not a very "sportsman-like" setup, but it's not "cheating".

 

[krazykidd]

Really? That's what you call cheating ? That's ridiculous. They in no way cheated, they were just more skilled and coordinated than you guys were . That is not cheating . Cheating is breaking the game to have an unfair advantage . They had an advantage , not because they were cheating , but because your team wasn't communicated as well ( if at all).

 

[The Wykydtron]

Ehhhhh maybe. They were just a premade team though, I do that in LoL all the time and we still go on epic losing streaks

"THEY'RE SO THROWING THIS GAME GUYS!"

[sub]"No. Help us, Fizz is just killing our entire team"[/sub]

"I'M CHASING THE VARUS! THEY'VE JUST THROWN THE GAME GUYS!"

[sub]Behind you, help![/sub]

"OH WHAT?! *dies*"

There's being in love with the sound of your own voice then there's Rookie going on a rant about how awesome he is at chasing the shit carry over the sound of his team dying


Oh i'm adding extra discussion value since the OP forgot to :3

Other cheating/well played shit you've seen, go.


Well this isn't technically cheating but it's annoying and cheap as fuck. Basically, pro strat to win all online games of BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend is 1. Get him in the corner 2. press button at him 3. keep pressing buttons until you win. 4. Emergency strat, use a super and/or orange Burst if it looks like he might get out.

The game's hitstun recovery mechanic, while really cool and fun to use gets really frustrating when you can only pop back up right into whatever the guy is still throwing at you because you're stuck in the fucking corner with no way out. Even with Hazama who i've resorted to using just for his crazy awesome, massive gap closing Drive. (and the fact that he's a massive troll.) Look if I could actually pop out while in the air I could just whip my way out instantly, nope the guy just uses an overhead or low hit and it all starts again.

I bet there's 101 ways to get out once I actually figure out all the deeper mechanics but I can only start to learn them WHEN I'M NOT FUCKING GETTING 100-0'D IN THE THE CORNER EVERY SINGLE GAME! I just try to throw counter and it works about 40% of the time.

Seriously, i've had it where the other guy started feeling sorry for me and actively backed out of the corner mid curbstomp. Fucking stupid.

 

[-Seraph-]

Eh, that's not really cheating in the slightest; maybe borderline "cheap" for some people, but they aren't really breaking the game. Good coordination =/= cheating, just means they have an advantage over you by using the mechanics in their favor. If they were using some sort of glitch, aim bot, legit game breaking thing, then you'd have a case.

It doesn't matter if this was an MLG match or a simple random match, there is nothing against team coordination in either. Stuff like this happens all the time, and I've had times where I've been able to coordinate with randoms well enough to steal the victory, takes a bit more effort mind you than it would with people you actually know.

Well this isn't technically cheating but it's annoying and cheap as fuck. Basically, pro strat to win all online games of BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend is 1. Get him in the corner 2. press button at him 3. keep pressing buttons until you win. 4. Emergency strat, use a super and/or orange Burst if it looks like he might get out.

The game's hitstun recovery mechanic, while really cool and fun to use gets really frustrating when you can only pop back up right into whatever the guy is still throwing at you because you're stuck in the fucking corner with no way out. Even with Hazama who i've resorted to using just for his crazy awesome, massive gap closing Drive. (and the fact that he's a massive troll.) Look if I could actually pop out while in the air I could just whip my way out instantly, nope the guy just uses an overhead or low hit and it all starts again.

I bet there's 101 ways to get out once I actually figure out all the deeper mechanics but I can only start to learn them WHEN I'M NOT FUCKING GETTING 100-0'D IN THE THE CORNER EVERY SINGLE GAME! I just try to throw counter and it works about 40% of the time.

Seriously, i've had it where the other guy started feeling sorry for me and actively backed out of the corner mid curbstomp. Fucking stupid.

Eh...isn't that just the general rule in pretty much every 2D fighter?

Corner = high chances of pure and utter decimation if you have no good grasp of how to defend and counter Okizime?

Blazblue is actually a very good game at giving the player a lot of options on how to avoid corner decimation if you are attentive enough. You just gotta learn when to tech roll/neutral tech, when to just keep blocking, using break bursts at pivotal moments, counter assaults, ect...

Tech rolling out of the corner is the most dangerous option funny enough as you only got like 3-5 frames of invincibility, and if the opponent sees it coming, they will just use a low to reset you. Sometimes I give them a false sense of security and back up a little to essentially "roadblock" them when they tech roll so they don't roll past me...and then reset them with a low or something.

Neutral teching (just pressing a butting to wake up in place) is really safe and yet unsafe depending on how you time it. Learn to read moves and neutral tech at the right time to pretty much phase right through attacks and execute your escape plan. Neutral techs have like 30 frames of invincibility (that's half a second!!).

Barrier guarding is your friend once you've woken up, pushes opponents away and gives you space. You can jump barrier at key moments to avoid getting hit by air unblockables.

Throw counters are risky if you don't time them right. If they are just spamming light attacks or do anything that has invincibility/ guard point/ or a preemptive attack that will result in a meaty, you're throw is gonna get stomped. Throws have 7 frames of activation, and that can be beat by a whole lot of stuff.

Really, you just gotta look out for peoples patterns and certain character strategies that are used in the corner like Ragnas infamous Dead spike > 5B bullshit, or Rachels annoying ass Frog > overhead/low fuzzy guard set up. Then again, I play Hakumen, and his counters can be a big "FUCK YOU" to people who try to keep me in the corner sometimes. Not everyone has a good concept of "Oki" thank goodness, and that's when my Zanshin loves to turn them and the tides of battle lol.

 

[xefaros]

Another candy sucking excuse most people use,Cheating
Does it matter?NO
Did human mind came up with it?Yes
Are you smart enough to come up with a defence to a strategy that human mind developed?
Are you smart enough to prevail to such strategy?
The tools are given

 

[The Wykydtron]

Eh...isn't that just the general rule in pretty much every 2D fighter?

Corner = high chances of pure and utter decimation if you have no good grasp of how to defend and counter Okizime?

Blazblue is actually a very good game at giving the player a lot of options on how to avoid corner decimation if you are attentive enough. You just gotta learn when to tech roll/neutral tech, when to just keep blocking, using break bursts at pivotal moments, counter assaults, ect...

Tech rolling out of the corner is the most dangerous option funny enough as you only got like 3-5 frames of invincibility, and if the opponent sees it coming, they will just use a low to reset you. Sometimes I give them a false sense of security and back up a little to essentially "roadblock" them when they tech roll so they don't roll past me...and then reset them with a low or something.

Neutral teching (just pressing a butting to wake up in place) is really safe and yet unsafe depending on how you time it. Learn to read moves and neutral tech at the right time to pretty much phase right through attacks and execute your escape plan. Neutral techs have like 30 frames of invincibility (that's half a second!!).

Barrier guarding is your friend once you've woken up, pushes opponents away and gives you space. You can jump barrier at key moments to avoid getting hit by air unblockables.

Throw counters are risky if you don't time them right. If they are just spamming light attacks or do anything that has invincibility/ guard point/ or a preemptive attack that will result in a meaty, you're throw is gonna get stomped. Throws have 7 frames of activation, and that can be beat by a whole lot of stuff.

Really, you just gotta look out for peoples patterns and certain character strategies that are used in the corner like Ragnas infamous Dead spike > 5B bullshit, or Rachels annoying ass Frog > overhead/low fuzzy guard set up. Then again, I play Hakumen, and his counters can be a big "FUCK YOU" to people who try to keep me in the corner sometimes. Not everyone has a good concept of "Oki" thank goodness, and that's when my Zanshin loves to turn them and the tides of battle lol.

Well in at least UMVC3 you always get a fully invincible and safe tech roll after every combo that ends on the ground, sure you can just predict the way they are gonna roll and mix them up over it but still. Otherwise if the combo gets dropped in the the air you have the option to tech right, left or pop up neutral. Both literally letting you jump out of the corner no problem.

Corner pressure obviously exists but it's more about killing a character on your terms/ getting a character in safely. Basically if he kills your character he has several ways of mixing you up since you're just jumping in from the one side. Throws, cross unders, crossup beams, teleports etc etc. You still have a chance coming in though. A LOT of characters have either some sort of of drop attack or dive kick or other good air move. Just TRY and attack Doom in the air. It will NOT end well for you

So many times i've just come in and instakilled someone with a straight Swag Dive from Vergil :3

BB doesn't have nearly as many of those sort of "failsafe" moves (well from my limited experience I can't find one from Makoto, Lambda and Hazama. However Noel can always randomly FENIR XD)

After so much UMVC3 it's fucking hard to adapt to the different techs and shiz. Fuck it, might as well go back to Super Mario redo the tech bits of the tutorial mode.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Not cheating at all. Sounds like a perfectly legit tactic to me. I won't call you a baby.. but I don't see where your complaint has merit.

 

[Doom972]

Wow, first time I see a poll with everyone agreeing. At the moment it's 100% on No.

Teamwork isn't cheating, fully using legitimiate game mechanics to your advantage isn't cheating, and playing much better than another player isn't cheating.

I keep being called cheater or noob in TF2 when I play heavy and stay near the cart and constantly shoot everything that moves (including spy-checking), which leads to my team winning the game and me being in the top 3 MVPs. I don't use any hacks, macros, etc. I just play the game well enough and know how to use its mechanics to my advantage.

As long as nobody used hacks or exploited bugs it's legitimate.

Ironically, captcha: play ball!

 

[shrimpcel]

They were not cheating. You are just being a baby. And it's just a video game. Be ashamed!

 

[ThriKreen]

It's really just poor sportsmanship coupled with a bad matchmaking system.

These pro guys should probably be scrimming against each other or similar pros, instead of "slumming" with the public, knowing they'd probably be steam rolling them with their experience and coordination.

And a good matchmaking system would something like LoL's where if you have a preformed team of 4 or 5, it will try to match you up with opponents with a similar ratio of preformed group and random people. And have divisions of ranked and non.

 

[Reven]

Last night i lost (and by lost i mean i pretty much got roflstomped) in league 5 matches in a row, in all those cases the enemy team was much more organized and used better tactics, and not once did i consider that cheating, mainly because that would be ridiculous,if your high school soccer team went up against the current world champions, and lost, would that be cheating? NO, it's called not being as good as someone else.

 

[aba1]

Cheating no but I would say it is in bad taste though. I mean they know a random pairing have no time to prepare tactics so they take advantage because they can.

 

[clippen05]

That's not cheating at all. That's completely fair. Cheating is exploiting flaws in the game/glitches/hacks. You just got outplayed... how is that cheating at all? Did you come on here to cry about it? Seriously, just because its not an MLG match doesn't mean people have to take it less seriously. It's called "Competitive" matchmaking for a reason. When I played on my highschool soccer team, (Worst team in this worst flight) we would experience something similar. Some days off-season we'd go to a field/facility where other people played and versed them. These were casual, no meaning games. Since it was the luck of the draw who was there we'd often verse really good people that play for club teams; we got crushed everytime we'd verse these opponents. These were not important matches in any form, yet we got outplayed... but was it cheating? No, they were just better, no matter the importance of the game. Honestly, I think you should avoid competitive multiplayer if you call "cheating" on players that are just more coordinated than you. (Especially when you could do the same thing by grouping up with a team of your friends)

 

[Jacco]

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

That's not cheating.

Cheating is literally breaking the game, via bug, exploit or other mechanic.

You lost because your side couldn't coordinate as well. In essence, they won because they played better.

There's a separate issue of the matchmaking system being rather poor quality (imagine it like a team of middle-schoolers having to face off against a pro college NBA team) that's not a very "sportsman-like" setup, but it's not "cheating".

I understand the difference, but isn't what they were doing a form of exploitation? By knowing how good they were and using the fact that other randomly paired teams would go against them because of lack of a ranking system, is that not exploitative?

I'm not arguing, just stating where my thinking is.

 

[Joccaren]

Not cheating. What, people have to run around playing like disorganised idiots online 'cause that's what most people play like and to actually co-ordinate would be cheating by making you better than them?
No?
Then its not cheating. They were just better players then you. It wasn't a FAIR match by any stretch of the imagination, and playing for fun you would hope people would try to balance teams so it becomes fair, but using effective tactics isn't cheating, nor is stacked teams.

 

[Windcaler]

Last night, I was playing Grifball on Halo 4 with my friend and we ended up in a match with a clan of 4 guys (one of them was an SR134). Anyway, the game started and it immediately became clear that we (my friend and I and the two random people we were paired with) were up again an MLG level clan.
Annoying for sure, but legit.

Where my problem came in was when they locked down the map. One guy would stand in the middle while the other guy scored the ball. Then the ball would respawn right were the first guy was standing and he would run with it. The other two ran interference. Needless to say, the match was over in about 3.5 minutes. We tried again and they pulled the same tactic.

My friend kept telling me they were just playing really well but it was hella pissing me off because in the three matches we played we scored exactly 0 times.

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

Anyway, what do you think? Were they cheating because they had such a distinct advantage? Or am I just being a baby?

It is not cheating. Cheating would be the use of a 3rd party program, map or mechanic exploits, or something else that is not intended for the game but gives the player an unfair advantage. Coordination in a team game is certainly something developers want in a multiplayer component of a game.

I dont know a thing about this Grifball but I do wonder why all four of you didnt just group up and swamp the 2 guys running interferance.