Poll: The line between cheating and playing really, really well.

[Happiness Assassin]

No, it only becomes cheating when you are exploiting a weakness in the game itself. They had a plan and executed it, something that your team couldn't do. I would consider it cheating if they were farming you for kills, keeping the game going only to boost their stats.

 

[skywolfblue]

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

That's not cheating.

Cheating is literally breaking the game, via bug, exploit or other mechanic.

You lost because your side couldn't coordinate as well. In essence, they won because they played better.

There's a separate issue of the matchmaking system being rather poor quality (imagine it like a team of middle-schoolers having to face off against a pro college NBA team) that's not a very "sportsman-like" setup, but it's not "cheating".

I understand the difference, but isn't what they were doing a form of exploitation? By knowing how good they were and using the fact that other randomly paired teams would go against them because of lack of a ranking system, is that not exploitative?

I'm not arguing, just stating where my thinking is.

Exploit kinda implies that there's something important to be gained.

In this case, it's an unranked match, so they're not getting a higher rating or anything, there's not much to be "gained" here. They're probably doing it just for fun, and in an unranked system there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The game allows and encourages this.

Now, if there is a ranking system, and they cheat the system and artificially boost their score by fighting teams that are vastly below their skill level, THAT would be exploiting.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

That's not cheating lol, that's just circumstances that were rather lopsided for your side. Things like coordination is completely fair game.

A good example is if you are playing Dark Souls pvp and it's a two versus one fight you can't scream foul because you're the one who's outnumbered. Cheating is the act of forcibly fudging the game's inner mechanics to tilt the game in your favor.

 

[Doom972]

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

That's not cheating.

Cheating is literally breaking the game, via bug, exploit or other mechanic.

You lost because your side couldn't coordinate as well. In essence, they won because they played better.

There's a separate issue of the matchmaking system being rather poor quality (imagine it like a team of middle-schoolers having to face off against a pro college NBA team) that's not a very "sportsman-like" setup, but it's not "cheating".

I understand the difference, but isn't what they were doing a form of exploitation? By knowing how good they were and using the fact that other randomly paired teams would go against them because of lack of a ranking system, is that not exploitative?

I'm not arguing, just stating where my thinking is.

They had an advantage that you didn't have, and they had an easy time beating you because of it. If you call it inconsiderate, unfair, etc, you may be correct - but cheating something specific and not too open for interpretation - It's like saying someone cheated when he beat you at chess because his experience allowed him to think more steps ahead than you.

 

[Dryk]

I think team stacking or pub stomping are rarely fun and usually dick moves, but they're not cheating.

 

[lacktheknack]

If your problem is that "a random collective had no way of co-ordinating against them", then you either had to A. get a group that co-ordinates as well as they did, or B. find a different match with more relaxed players.

Just because they're taking it seriously doesn't mean they're cheating, it means they're taking it seriously. If you're not taking the game seriously but just wanna have some fun, then you're best off finding like-minded individuals.

 

[Yopaz]

It's not cheating, but it's a cheap tactic. With some proper teamwork it should be possible to win though.

 

[Aeonknight]

It is my opinion they were cheating as there was no possible way a random grouping of people could coordinate against them. It would be a legit (and expected tactic) in an MLG match, but against a simple social, unranked match?

That's not cheating.

Cheating is literally breaking the game, via bug, exploit or other mechanic.

You lost because your side couldn't coordinate as well. In essence, they won because they played better.

There's a separate issue of the matchmaking system being rather poor quality (imagine it like a team of middle-schoolers having to face off against a pro college NBA team) that's not a very "sportsman-like" setup, but it's not "cheating".

I understand the difference, but isn't what they were doing a form of exploitation? By knowing how good they were and using the fact that other randomly paired teams would go against them because of lack of a ranking system, is that not exploitative?

I'm not arguing, just stating where my thinking is.

Exploiting game mechanics in a way that doesn't require you to bypass the system's rules is not cheating. It's just a sign of bad development. They weren't cheating, they were just taking advantage of poor game mechanics. It's in poor taste, but rather than call them cheaters I'd say you should be writing the developers an email as to "why this needs to be patched". Good luck w/ that though...

 

[Vegosiux]

Cheating? No.

Still have no idea why they'd do this, since it's like, I don't know. You know playing against a vastly inferior opponent just doesn't end up being an engaging game, while playing against a vastly superior one you could simply forget the objectives and instead observe and try to pick up a few tricks. Equal footing is where it's at.

So in short:
Playing against a vastly superior opponent, it's not really a game as much as it can be a learning experience.
Playing against approximately equal opponents is where the real games are.
Playing against a vastly inferior opponent just doesn't put enough value in a game to do it voluntarily.

But, yeah well, that's just like, my opinion. Basically, you lose out on most of the experience if you play against someone who's leagues below you.

 

[MagunBFP]

If my mates and I did exactly the same thing, except that we sucked and you won would it still be cheating? If the only difference between cheating and not cheating is how good someone is at the game then anyone who beats you is obviously just cheating.

Get over it, the best team won don't rematch next time and you won't get your ass handed to you so easily... also if you can see the tactic they're using (and that it relied on one guy in the middle) then perhaps you and your friend should have tried to counter it rather then bitching about cheats who were just more organised.

 

[BeerTent]

Call me crass if you will, but what I'm getting from this the OP that if you know you and your friends are good, and you decide to play together and have fun against people you've never met... You're cheating? If you can lock an area (Kind of a big deal in NS2 as well) effectively, you have to stop?

You realize that there's a disconnect button, right? You can do that, and get paired with someone else. Halo 4 isn't exactly dead, what's that term again? There's plenty of fish in the sea?

I'm just sayin', this sounds a little ludicrous. I'm not exactly amazing, but if I get whupped time and time again by someone who's vastly superior, I try to observe how they're doing it... I guess I'm like the OP's friend, while my friend is the OP, someone who'd rather find a set of evenly matched players.

 

[Razentsu]

Those players definitely weren't cheating. They won because they put in more work. They formed a strong team, they've developed a strong strategy, and they executed that strategy well. If you want a chance at beating them, you would have to form a dedicated team and start playing/coordinating as well as they did. You would have to put in a similar amount of dedication into the game as these MLG players did.

BB doesn't have nearly as many of those sort of "failsafe" moves (well from my limited experience I can't find one from Makoto, Lambda and Hazama. However Noel can always randomly FENIR XD)

Having a reversal is great, but you need to remember that reversal or not, there is always a way out. You have more options than teching and reversals. Sometimes, escape from the corner is a simple dash-under your opponent away. Pay plenty of attention to your opponent. Analyse what he/she is doing, and figure out what you can do to defuse the situations he/she is putting you in.

 

[iamnoobie616]

The other team had not altered the game's mechanics illegitimately in order to defeat you. They simply utilized the appropriate tactics to do so, i.e. played strategically and in turn, well.

Thus, yes, the opposing team in fact, simply played well.

Personally, I have never encountered a battle which had me play against opponents that employed such methods. I had however, on numerous occasions, battled others that utilized tactics or skill to attempt to defeat me. Halo 4 was designed to be quite balanced though. During the aforementioned battle, you should have attacked the player awaiting the ball respawn at the center of the field.

 

[zehydra]

It's not cheating.

It's just evidence that the game wasn't designed very well.

 

[drthmik]

LOL!!!
NO one thinks it's cheating!
Not
One
Vote!
HA Ha Ha

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

If they don't let you beat them, they are cheating.

 

[Jacco]

Call me crass if you will, but what I'm getting from this the OP that if you know you and your friends are good, and you decide to play together and have fun against people you've never met... You're cheating? If you can lock an area (Kind of a big deal in NS2 as well) effectively, you have to stop?

You realize that there's a disconnect button, right? You can do that, and get paired with someone else. Halo 4 isn't exactly dead, what's that term again? There's plenty of fish in the sea?

I'm just sayin', this sounds a little ludicrous. I'm not exactly amazing, but if I get whupped time and time again by someone who's vastly superior, I try to observe how they're doing it... I guess I'm like the OP's friend, while my friend is the OP, someone who'd rather find a set of evenly matched players.

I'm not saying they're cheating because they were good. As I explained in another post, they were essentially exploiting a flaw in the game (non-ranking) to constantly steamroll the other team. What their motivations were I have no idea. So I guess "cheating" wasn't necessarily what I was looking for. "Cheap" would be a better word I suppose.

Also, we did try to back out and kept getting put back in the same lobby as them.

 

[Altefforr]

I run into problems like this in League of Legends all the time. It's rather annoying when the enemy team is literally full of the most overpowered champions that you could pick. Teams that just have such overpowered synergies, that it's generally an auto-lose, unless you're playing an equally powerful, or greater strength combination of champions.

 

[Zealous]

Nope, it's not cheating. Halo 4's Griffball just sucks. A lot. Seriously.

 

[Zenn3k]

I find it amazing you all played that many games against them.

I wouldn't have rage quit before the first match ended and not returned.