Poll: There are only 2 genders....right?

[JoJo]

Well I read this article a while ago.
http://capone.mtsu.edu/phollowa/5sexes.html
But really it just describes different variations of male and female.

Biologically, there are only two sexes and a few rare individuals who come out somewhere in between. Gender is cultural though and while traditionally there are only two genders in Western society, other societies have a third, such as the Hijra [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)] of South Asia. So I'd say it depends on your culture, personally if people want to identify as a third gender then it's none of my business.

Hirjas are literally just transsexuals as seen through the cultural lens of south asia.

Right, but their culture sees them as a third gender rather than having switched from male to female or vice versa, which is relevant to the question asked in this thread.

 

[Politrukk]

This is my opinion obviously, but what do you guys think?

And can someone even explain to me what in the world qualifies something to be a new gender outside of biology?

I was going to act all exasperated that this is still such a hard concept for people to grasp, but then I figured that because these threads just don't stop coming, it must just not be a very intuitive idea. Which is understandable, when you think about it. Anyway...

"Sex" is a metaphysical attribute[footnote]Some would argue Social attribute[/footnote] which depends entirely upon sex-specific chromosomes: the Xs and Ys. For the most part, humans are reproduced with one of only two combinations: XX, and XY. However, there are also a significant number of humans reproduced with other combinations, such as just X, just Y, XXX, XXY, XYY, and so on. Of these, not all are able to function healthily as human beings, but many are. As such, they are equally 'valid' combinations of sex chromosomes and should be considered as just another variety of human.

"Gender" is a social attribute which can depend on anything. It is not present in every culture, and is not a biologically necessary feature of human societies. In many contemporary dominant cultures (including, probably, yours), it is primarily determined by a set of apparent phenotypical characteristics which only partly reflect sexual differences. In our society, there are only really two accepted genders: "Man" and "Woman", often conflated with "Male" and "Female" (see below). However, this is not the case in all cultures around the world or across time as, as mentioned, gender is not a necessary feature of human nature. In some cultures there are 3, 4, 5, or even more genders determined by various characteristics which can include features as arbitrary as what month you were born in, or where. Much like how we associate pink with femininity or blue with masculinity.

Of course, those people wouldn't call those characteristics arbitrary. Much as we don't call sexual characteristics, or other social characteristics, arbitrary in their determination of Gender.

But they are, really. We massively overplay physical differences between genders. Even the biggest, baddest, most aggressive, most manly man, when compared to the smallest, daintiest, kindest, most womanly woman, is still like 99.99% the same on the genetic and structural level, yet these tiny differences are used to justify radically divergent behaviour and treatment. Ex: The Draft. Women aren't so lacking in strength and stamina compared to men that they couldn't make good conscripts. Especially now the ability to kill someone only requires the ability to lift and aim a 2-3kg gun. Swords have always been pretty light, too. So why not draft them?

The Aliens watching us must be laughing.


Fundamentally there's no reason for things like this to be the way they are, even though it seems to many, right now, like it's the only way things could be. It's simply the result of ignorance. That's why the two terms are conflated so regularly.

It's like that story: Two young fish are swimming along, enjoying their day. An older fish swims by and says to them, "Morning! How's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit before one turns to the other and asks...

"What the hell is water?"

Although I can see what you're saying...

Aren't you downplaying the actual biological side of it a little too much?

I mean just the simple development of something that's small in theory say for example breasts.
Could lead to a large difference in practice.

Or are you saying the reproductive organs/glands/hormones are built into that 99.9%

I'm just curious because I can't quite make out how that scales up.


Aside from that silly question : thank you for your well written explanation!

 

[Gray-Philosophy]

I agree.

I consider genders (male and female) as a biological term for bodily functions, how you feel on the inside isn't really relevant to me. If you're a man but feel like a woman, then you're just a man that feel's like a woman, and there's nothing wrong with that. Same goes the other way around for the ladies.

How other people see you is also not relevant to what you identify as, it's only their own subjective interpretation of you

 

[Danny Ocean]

Although I can see what you're saying...

Aren't you downplaying the actual biological side of it a little too much?

I mean just the simple development of something that's small in theory say for example breasts.
Could lead to a large difference in practice.

Or are you saying the reproductive organs/glands/hormones are built into that 99.9%

I'm just curious because I can't quite make out how that scales up.


Aside from that silly question : thank you for your well written explanation!

A good way to sum it up is this: biology is something you are, gender is something you do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's the big question! Nature or nurture?

It's the eternal battle of the social sciences vs the biological ones. Where the biologists usually employ very hard-line biological reductionism based on arguments of causation etc.. While opinions in the social sciences are rather more spread, but generally argue that it's at least as much nurture as nature.

I went into university convinced we have no free will and it's all about genetics and biology. Having done a variety of social sciences for three years now (and a lot of philosophy) I'm not so sure any more!

I picked that example of size and strength because it's a classically intuitive differential between the categories of 'men' and 'women', like how the property of having three wheels is considered a pretty sure-fire way of telling a 'tricycle' from a 'quad bike'. It's also known to be something heavily influenced by levels of HGH and Testosterone, both of which are present in much greater quantities in men.

But the kicker is that despite the large differences (men have, what, 7-10x more testosterone or something?), the effect on height is like a foot at best. Even when looking at phenotypical results of sex-genetic characteristics, the average differences are small. Especially when comparing a man to, say, a lion. Or a pig. Or a Gorilla. Or an elephant. Or grass. I find it helpful to put humans in the broader context of the whole animal kingdom. It really makes the differences seem rather trivial. I also find it funny imagining animals being generally racist and saying 'all humans look the same to me'. They certainly behave as such. The bastards.

When it comes to breasts- men have all the stuff there too! Womens' are just bigger. IIRC there's even been records of men lactating and their breasts growing larger under high stress situations, hypothesised to be a survival response to enable the nurturing of children even when no females are present.

But yeah, I see what you're saying. There are definitely some sociologists who, IMO, play down biological characteristics. I had just this same Q+A with my Gendering I.P.E. lecturer at the beginning of the course, as we were looking at the work of an anthropologist who was arguing that sex is completely independent of gender. I was never convinced in the end.

I remember the week 6, 7, and 8 classes on masculinity studies[footnote] (that's right, readers. Fully a third of my feminist IPE course was exclusively dedicated to men)[/footnote]. In my research I found out that even the 'common sense' and 'scientifically proven' belief that testosterone makes you aggressive is in fact a load of hooey. It actually seems to push men to seeking social status, and it just so happens that in a lot of cases violence is the easiest way to get it. I had a hard time convincing a room full of women that that was the case, lemme tell yah.

But the conclusion I have come to is to be very, very sceptical of biologically reductionist claims when it comes to human society and behaviour. It seems like barely an issue of New Scientist goes by without one of them being proved wrong in some way. There's plenty of differences between individuals around the world, but the correlations to sex are often fairly weak except for the most obvious difference (E.G. reproductive organs), and come much more down to environment than genetics, especially sexual genetics. Like how the average US woman probably weighs more than the average Ethiopian man.

 

[Lightknight]

There are two sexes and two genders. The two do not always follow the expected patterns. So yeah, there are only two genders but more than a 1 to 1 combination of genders to sex.

It is important to note that both genders exist on a spectrum on which there are many points in between and extremes. But it is still divided by male and female genders in true binary fashion. People will try to make it sound more complex than it is because we like to convince ourselves and others that we're special. But transgenderism is about displaying the gender contrary to your sex, not some third unknown gender.

 

[Lightknight]

"Gender" is a social attribute which can depend on anything. It is not present in every culture, and is not a biologically necessary feature of human societies. In many contemporary dominant cultures (including, probably, yours), it is primarily determined by a set of apparent phenotypical characteristics which only partly reflect sexual differences. In our society, there are only really two accepted genders: "Man" and "Woman", often conflated with "Male" and "Female" (see below). However, this is not the case in all cultures around the world or across time as, as mentioned, gender is not a necessary feature of human nature. In some cultures there are 3, 4, 5, or even more genders determined by various characteristics which can include features as arbitrary as what month you were born in, or where. Much like how we associate pink with femininity or blue with masculinity.

Not necessarily. Some gendered norms are biologically driven. Most are partially biologically driven (seen as a combination of nature and nurture).

There are of course some gendered stereotypes that don't span cultures and those are purely socially driven. But they are by far not the total sum of all gendered stereotypes, some which are anchored in real universal differences that have been measured across cultures.

Honestly, it would be silly to believe in evolution and to not believe that we as a sexually dimorphic species don't have differing qualities in this area.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

There are only 2 genders/sex (and a possible 3rd when genes don't do what they were supposed to).

I don't care if you think you're a man/woman/puppy/pokemon/supergendered in a man/woman's body. If you look male I'll treat you like a man, if you look female I'll treat you like a girl. If you look like a man who tries to be a woman I'll treat you like a man (just extrapolate from that for all possible permutations).

I'm not going to be rude and call you "the fag", but I won't go out of my way to modify my speech unless it feels natural to call you a woman/man because you really look like one.

Still, the bottom line is that I don't really care, but will avoid interaction with trans people outside a professional setting because their presence makes me feel awkward and I'm tired of being told how to talk in their presence. Oddly enough, I do have gay friends, but you wouldn't know it because they don't define their sexual orientation as what defines them in social settings.

It takes less then a second to add or drop an s from a pronoun and saves you time and money in the long run for your company and avoids social stigma to you. Its actually unprofessional to avoid transgender people in the work place and, again, it ruins productivity and creates a bad reputation. By advice to you is either to start using gender neutral terms for everyone, so as not to run into a situation where you mistake someones gender and use the wrong pronoun or just learn to accept it use the correct term.

That's the professional workplace argument for why you should accept it. The other argument is because its the right thing to do. No one likes being called the wrong sex or gender, regardless of whether or not their transgender. Especially when, for a long time, calling someone the opposite or attributing attributes of the opposite sex has been considered an insult. "You throw like a girl.""You look butch." etc etc. If someone went up to you and constantly refer to you as a women, you'd probably get pretty pissed or annoyed.

Do unto others as you would have done unto you and all that crap.

 

[Mong0]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 genders; both are biological classifications regarding the reproductive capabilities and its associated genes of an individual organism. I also don't want to play pretend with people who don't like their sex.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 genders; both are biological classifications regarding the reproductive capabilities and its associated genes of an individual organism. I also don't want to play pretend with people who don't like their sex.

Yes because gender dysphoria isn't a real thing and transgender people don't have a valid expectation to be refered to by gender pronouns that fit them and their identity best. Wait... That's the opposite of the truth, and it's hurtful to transgender people. Not only that, but saying "playing pretend with people who don't like their sex" is both insulting and condecending. Seriously look at what the person before you posted...

 

[Mong0]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 genders; both are biological classifications regarding the reproductive capabilities and its associated genes of an individual organism. I also don't want to play pretend with people who don't like their sex.

Yes because gender dysphoria isn't a real thing and transgender people don't have a valid expectation to be refered to by gender pronouns that fit them and their identity best. Wait... That's the opposite of the truth, and it's hurtful to transgender people. Not only that, but saying "playing pretend with people who don't like their sex" is both insulting and condecending. Seriously look at what the person before you posted...

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, not a reflection of reality. People are what they physically are, whether they like it or not. I'm under no obligation to lie for anyone, and care very little about the feelings of anyone who would demand that I do so.

 

[AgedGrunt]

I suppose all I can really do is ask you to see it from their perspective. Imagine if you were the same as you are now, but everyone treated you as if you were of the opposite sex. Wouldn't that drive you crazy? Would you continue to be yourself, despite the dismissal of those around you or would you pretend to be that other gender just to appease them? If someone of one sex appears indistinguishably as someone of another, why is it anyone's business which chromosomes they have or even what genitals they have? I don't know about you but I don't see a lot of genitalia when I go outside, people tend to wear clothes.

How someone is referred to and what they are, are two different things. That's my point.

And I'd find it ignorant if I were called a woman when I am and was born male. I'm male by fact; public perception can't change that. Transgenderism is about perception, which isn't fact.

Not saying it's fine to ignore someone's identity or that trans people should have to pretend to be someone they're not, but then I'm also not saying that everyone else has to pretend trans people are someone they're not. Personally, I don't care as long as we're good people and not lying and deceiving each other about what we are.

 

[Dizchu]

How someone is referred to and what they are, are two different things. That's my point.

And my point is that biological sex and gender identity are being conflated. You can either say gender is purely biological that has no effect on how you are treated or that it is a cultural thing that does greatly influence how you are treated. The third option is that there should be boundaries on how biological males and females can express themselves, which sounds a bit unethical don't you think?

And I'd find it ignorant if I were called a woman when I am and was born male. I'm male by fact; public perception can't change that. Transgenderism is about perception, which isn't fact.

But gender is about perception. You can often look at a person without seeing their genitals and determine if they're male or female. If you met a dude on the street that identified as a dude, you wouldn't demand a blood sample from them so you can take it to a lab to check their chromosomes and only then believe them. That'd be absurd. Yes, the way transgender people transition is artificial, but so are things like prosthetic limbs. They're repairing a fault with their body so they can live their lives more normally. I don't see what's so wrong with that? By constantly reminding a transgender person of their birth sex, what you're doing is essentially like reminding an amputee of their struggles growing up without a leg or the accident that they lost it in. It helps nobody, the amputee knows that they have a leg missing, they just don't want to be burdened with this fact constantly when there are ways to circumvent the problem.

It's not like transgender people aren't aware that they're transgender, they just want to live normally and not be reminded of it all the time. You later go on to say that they're "pretending" and that those that accept them are also "pretending". But those that make the most fuss are those that demand that their identity is wrong and that they are living a delusion.

But let's say that being transgender was "pretending" and it wasn't a legitimate condition. What you're suggesting is the same as going to a church and shouting "there is no god" or "Allah is the only god" or something like that. All that happens is that you satisfy your ego and annoy a bunch of people. Is it worth it?

 

[Lightknight]

I suppose all I can really do is ask you to see it from their perspective. Imagine if you were the same as you are now, but everyone treated you as if you were of the opposite sex. Wouldn't that drive you crazy? Would you continue to be yourself, despite the dismissal of those around you or would you pretend to be that other gender just to appease them? If someone of one sex appears indistinguishably as someone of another, why is it anyone's business which chromosomes they have or even what genitals they have? I don't know about you but I don't see a lot of genitalia when I go outside, people tend to wear clothes.

If I was really white but felt like I was black I wouldn't expect people to conform to my own view of reality when I clearly do not match the criteria of their reality to be treated as such.

It's important to treat everyone with respect and as valuable people. That is vital to understand in this discussion. It is by no means a necessity or obligation to play along with someone else's disorder. My personal concept of someone being male or female is entirely sex-based. How the person feels or behaves is irrelevant to the physical makeup of the person to most people in what sex they are treated as. There are some gray areas but those are exceptions and not typically the norm (such as hermaphrodites) and wouldn't qualify for transgendered individuals even post operation (genital mutilation and hormone therapy don't actually change your sex so much as your legal sex and your apparent sex, but too much biology remains).

It isn't that I don't get that they're experiencing a gender identity that is disparate to their physical sex. I get that. It's just that I don't think that is relevant to what sex they are. You could walk up to me and tell me you're a kitten inside (yes, some furries really go this route) and I'm still going to think of you like a person of whatever sex you appear to be.

Now, the individuals that I know which are transgendered? I'll be polite and caring just like I am for anyone else. But I am not going to go out of my way to accommodate their own personal reality. I shouldn't be labeled as transphobic just because of an issue of semantics. Me saying "he" instead of "she" doesn't mean I hate someone. I stand strong with them against bullying and any hate. But I also expect my own view of reality to be respected too. Why should their reality override mine?

 

[IMissedThatOne]

I suppose all I can really do is ask you to see it from their perspective. Imagine if you were the same as you are now, but everyone treated you as if you were of the opposite sex. Wouldn't that drive you crazy? Would you continue to be yourself, despite the dismissal of those around you or would you pretend to be that other gender just to appease them? If someone of one sex appears indistinguishably as someone of another, why is it anyone's business which chromosomes they have or even what genitals they have? I don't know about you but I don't see a lot of genitalia when I go outside, people tend to wear clothes.

If I was really white but felt like I was black I wouldn't expect people to conform to my own view of reality when I clearly do not match the criteria of their reality to be treated as such.

It's important to treat everyone with respect and as valuable people. That is vital to understand in this discussion. It is by no means a necessity or obligation to play along with someone else's disorder. My personal concept of someone being male or female is entirely sex-based. How the person feels or behaves is irrelevant to the physical makeup of the person to most people in what sex they are treated as. There are some gray areas but those are exceptions and not typically the norm (such as hermaphrodites) and wouldn't qualify for transgendered individuals even post operation (genital mutilation and hormone therapy don't actually change your sex so much as your legal sex and your apparent sex, but too much biology remains).

It isn't that I don't get that they're experiencing a gender identity that is disparate to their physical sex. I get that. It's just that I don't think that is relevant to what sex they are. You could walk up to me and tell me you're a kitten inside (yes, some furries really go this route) and I'm still going to think of you like a person of whatever sex you appear to be.

Now, the individuals that I know which are transgendered? I'll be polite and caring just like I am for anyone else. But I am not going to go out of my way to accommodate their own personal reality. I shouldn't be labeled as transphobic just because of an issue of semantics. Me saying "he" instead of "she" doesn't mean I hate someone. I stand strong with them against bullying and any hate. But I also expect my own view of reality to be respected too. Why should their reality override mine?

Well you somewhat contradicted yourself. If you wanted to be polite and caring you would call them the gender they would want to be addressed at and the reason for a that is easy: because you're compassionate to their mental troubles.

But let's start somewhere else, because I want to make sure you have to right picture of what gender identity disorder actually means. Their perception of reality is not different from your own. Every transperson knows what sex they are. As you already stated gender identy can be different from the sex of a person but question is why? And since you compare them so to people who think of themselves as animals I think your information on why and how modern psychology came to the conclusion a "core gender identy" in each individual exists is lacking.

The first part is that for the last century the transsexual patient was seen as actually delusional and everything was done to hopefully free them from their "twisted" minds but neither psychotherapy, behavior therapy or aversion therapy helped and the question was why are transsexuals so ressistent to treamtment? Even very early on people suspected a biological root and this has only been strenghtend by recent research. The whole etiology has not been found but a strong a biological influence is nowadays out of question: Here are some sorces just so you know I'm not talking out of my ass
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/25667367
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02567.x/abstract;jsessionid=E31F983FFF8B5F1A62A57462AA3895CE.f02t01?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.5.6564

And not only that but transgender people aren't the only ones with mixed up gender identity. For a very long time intersexual children have been tried to be raised as one gender or another only depending on how well developed their penis was with very poor results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421517/

It then became standart that every person has an inner sense of their gender and being forced to live against it causes the individual mental stress and depression:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574768
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/81/3/545/

So the reasons you should treat them as their gender ther're presenting rather than as you see them are the following:
1.No one wants to be gender dysphoric and the only way for them to live a halway normal life is to treat like a person whose gender identity matches with them after all if you were hit you with gender dysphoria you would want to be treated the same way.
2. As it has been shown gender dysphoria causes a lot of pain to the individual trying to ease that pain by atleast letting them live as a normal woman or man as best as it can be done should be a non issue since it only costs you a quick change of pronouns.

Also no one expects to go and tell a transperson that they actually have their nonexisting gentials and that their penis is totally a vagina. They know what is and isn't there. You also don't have to date them or whatever the only thing that people ask for is that they will be treated socially as their gender identity since social recognition and acceptance is important for every human being.

 

[Silvershadowfire]

So... My answer to the question is twofold. Under strict definition of the term, there are three manifestations of sexual characteristics in the human animal; male, female, intersex.

To those of you arguing the XX XY defintion, I will respectfully point out that there are in fact five criteria used to determine if a person is male or female:

1) The number and type of chromosomes
2) The type of gonads (sexual reproduction organs - testes or ovaries)
3) The sex hormones produced (the ratio of testosterone to estrogen)
4) Internal reproductive anatomy
5) External genitalia

People in whom all five of these critera are not all male or all female at birth are considered 'intersex'.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex )


Personally, I tend to group people in my head into five particular sexual groups; male, female, female-presenting intersex, male presenting intersex, and neutral/androgenous/both. Again, this is just my personal perspective. It has nothing to do with science, social norms or gender representation.

 

[chumpo]

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, not a reflection of reality. People are what they physically are, whether they like it or not. I'm under no obligation to lie for anyone, and care very little about the feelings of anyone who would demand that I do so.

Registered to say that I strongly agree with this guy.

This is a mental disorder and comes entirely down to perception. Well, my perception is different and I do not see a 3rd+ gender, just as I do not see the body of christ in a cracker.

You want to start a dumb cult? Sure, go ahead.
You want the freedom to do that? Sure, you already have it.
You want to wear a crazy hat at work to show your faith? Go for it.
You want me to stat saying your hat is actually your hair? Well now sadly it has become about me, and not you, and I am gonna say no.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Some gendered norms are biologically driven. Most are partially biologically driven (seen as a combination of nature and nurture).

There are of course some gendered stereotypes that don't span cultures and those are purely socially driven. But they are by far not the total sum of all gendered stereotypes, some which are anchored in real universal differences that have been measured across cultures.

Honestly, it would be silly to believe in evolution and to not believe that we as a sexually dimorphic species don't have differing qualities in this area.

This is true. That's why I clarified in that quoted section that, "it is primarily determined by a set of apparent phenotypical characteristics which only partly reflect sexual differences."

That is to say that: it's mostly attributed based on the visible effects of particular combinations of sex chromosomes. Often, however, the sex genes are given inaccurately heavy weighting in their determination of physical differences, such as in the case of weight (more an environmental and hereditary factor than a sexual one), or strength (more the result of lifestyle differences).

We do very much have differing qualities, of course, but in the greater scheme of the animal kingdom these differences (even in extreme cases) are not really particularly large, yet are given huge emphasis in determining the structure of our societies and the way we treat eachother. That's why I think all the other animals would think we all look the same, or the invading aliens would be laughing as we consistently fail to make the most of our species' potential.

The exception of course is reproductive role, which obliges women to take about 9 months to carry the baby, and then the baby to be breast-fed. But, again, this minimal biologically-determined obligation has been blown up to the point where (in most of the world) females are considered mothers or potential mothers first and foremost, regardless of their other potentials.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 genders; both are biological classifications regarding the reproductive capabilities and its associated genes of an individual organism. I also don't want to play pretend with people who don't like their sex.

Yes because gender dysphoria isn't a real thing and transgender people don't have a valid expectation to be refered to by gender pronouns that fit them and their identity best. Wait... That's the opposite of the truth, and it's hurtful to transgender people. Not only that, but saying "playing pretend with people who don't like their sex" is both insulting and condecending. Seriously look at what the person before you posted...

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, not a reflection of reality. People are what they physically are, whether they like it or not. I'm under no obligation to lie for anyone, and care very little about the feelings of anyone who would demand that I do so.

The DSM-V physician's desk reference manual does not call gender dysphoria a mental disorder or mental illness, and neither does any other valid psychological data. So right there you're absolutely incorrect. Also if I came up and misgendered you intentionally you'd be angry with me, so how is it any different for a trans person, especially when it takes no real effort on your part? It's not, and if you expect me to respect your feelings, it's a two way street, respect, you don't get yours with out giving back in kind. So your argument doesn't hold water.

Registered to say that I strongly agree with this guy.

This is a mental disorder and comes entirely down to perception. Well, my perception is different and I do not see a 3rd+ gender, just as I do not see the body of christ in a cracker.

You want to start a dumb cult? Sure, go ahead.
You want the freedom to do that? Sure, you already have it.
You want to wear a crazy hat at work to show your faith? Go for it.
You want me to stat saying your hat is actually your hair? Well now sadly it has become about me, and not you, and I am gonna say no.

Except that gender dysphoria is not a mental disorder or mental illness, no psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist of any kind will agree with that is a disorder either. At least none who didn't get their diploma out of a cracker jack box.

Also non-sequitur argument is non-sequitur, you're not being asked to call a hat hair, you're being asked to use comfortable gender pronouns.

 

[likalaruku]

I'm female. I dress feminine (though I only wear pants & capris) but all my hobbies are masculine, past jobs include house construction, cooking, car sales, & nursing the elderly. I don't get along with girly girls or macho men. I tend to be drawn to tall aggressive women & timid feminine looking men, but I'm not a sexual person. I guess I'm more of an anti-gender person. I suppose it's the same thing as Genderfluid? Not sure... I don't really approve of "gender roles" but seeing people spit in the face of traditional roles does please me, but mostly because it annoys conservative people & I have that whole Schadenfreude thing going on.