...[blinks]
Wow, I've been in R&P a long time, I forgot it was so bright out here.
Anyways, right into it then. I'm a bartender. And a server. And generally a service employee. I have been for a very long time. My whole family is or has worked in hospitality, in most cases for a very long time. And I want to talk about tips. I work in a conservative area of a conservative city, with lots of people who don't tip. Or don't tip well. Or see tipping as a sort of social norm they only follow out of some antiquated sense of socially responsibility. And I grew up my whole life in a hospitality family, so it never occurred to me not to tip. So I went online and did some Googling about why people don't tip. What I found was, well, unconvincing, at best, and downright offensive at worst. So much so that it prompted me to write this:
I borrowed a coworkers credentials about the whole "2 degrees" thing just to make a point, but the rest is all true. This was the original comment:
Anyways, I'm here for three simple reasons. I want to know if you tip service employees, especially in restaurants. I want to know why you do or don't. And I want to know what you think about tipping in general. The first one you can knock off in the poll, but I really am genuinely curious about the second and third. I wanted to come here because I wanted to informed opinions of people I generally respect, not just some "controversy-for-hits" blogger. I know this has been done before, but I always like fresh conversation, so thanks in advance for putting your opinions out there!
EDIT: Two things here. One, sorry about the poll. The options are meant to be as follows:
1. Yes, it's customary where I live
2. Yes, although it's not customary
3. No, although it's customary where I live
4. No, it's not customary where I live
Second, sorry about the similar thread to a current one. I mostly lurk in the dark, dank underbelly of R&P so I don't really know what kind of threads are active right now.
EDIT 2:
A general theme here that I'm noticing is people claiming not to get why the whole gratuity system exists. As someone with a lot of hospitality experience (and hospitality management experience) allow me to explain.
So that's how the system works. I guess the question now is whether or not we think it's a good system.
Wow, I've been in R&P a long time, I forgot it was so bright out here.
Anyways, right into it then. I'm a bartender. And a server. And generally a service employee. I have been for a very long time. My whole family is or has worked in hospitality, in most cases for a very long time. And I want to talk about tips. I work in a conservative area of a conservative city, with lots of people who don't tip. Or don't tip well. Or see tipping as a sort of social norm they only follow out of some antiquated sense of socially responsibility. And I grew up my whole life in a hospitality family, so it never occurred to me not to tip. So I went online and did some Googling about why people don't tip. What I found was, well, unconvincing, at best, and downright offensive at worst. So much so that it prompted me to write this:
John Doe
Posted July 24, 2014 at 4:16 AM
Go fuck yourself.
I do not have a habit of saying that to people, but seriously, go fuck yourself.
I have never in my entire career met a single person who has ever tampered with food. You are painting an entire industry as criminals and assholes based on nothing more than your own sorry excuses. If you have ever had your food tampered with or suspect that your food was tampered with then I do hereby apologize on behalf of the entire hospitality industry. That was wrong and the culprit deserves whatever justice they get. But that does not change my message. Go. Fuck. Yourself.
I cannot believe how entitled you are. What the fuck do you do? Who the fuck put you up on your high horse? Who the fuck are you to imply that I, with my two bachelor degrees (Yes, two, and I tend bar because I like doing that, thanks), am so clearly worthless as a person that I don?t even deserve the minimum wage while I bring your fat ass food, fight with the kitchen to ensure that said food is delivered according to standard, jump through every hoop I can to ensure you have a pleasant evening? All this while I juggle six other tables, make recommendations based on my years of knowledge, make sure that the small family with the crying baby is kept away from your section, take your dirty dishes away, play for you at a much lower wage and clean up after you?re gone? Fun fact, servers are not order takers. There?s a thousand things we have to do to make sure you enjoy your night out, and there are a lot of us, including myself, who do it first and foremost FOR YOU. Because we know you want to have a nice night, and will be happy to have given it to you without the tip crossing our minds.
But you? Your meal was subsidized by our crappy wages, and you have the sheer fucking gall to try to claim that I?m somehow not as worthwhile a human being as you are? Don?t even try to claim that isn?t what you were getting at. You said, verbatim, ?I know you make less than the minimum wage. I also think that is more than you were worth.? So again, I dare you, tell me what you do? Tell my why the fuck you think you?re worth so much fucking more than me. Don?t tell me it?s the market. Don?t tell me it?s because you somehow contribute more to society or to the economy. Tell me why you, as a person, are worth so much more. I fucking dare you.
Reply.
P.S. Our wage is deemed to be fair because of the expectation that gratuities will support us beyond our wages; education and skill level have little to do with it. Gratuities are the most pure form of capitalism, where the relationship between service provider and consumer is direct and payment for services rendered is entirely at the discretion of the consumer, as a means of incentivising better service and promoting competition. By not tipping, you are effectively leeching off the contributions of others. You exploit a system designed to give you the power to pay what you believe is fair compensation for services rendered. As a server (or currently, bartender) I have no power in this exchange. I have no way to deny you service if the agreed upon price (zero, in your case) is unfair, and I have no means of appeal if my labour is exploited for the benefit of some other party (again, you). You sir, have been given all the power and you are exploiting it. You demand that we provide you with a service, knowing that we have subsidized the cost of the product, knowing that you have sole authority to set the price for our services and knowing that we have no recourse if you set the price unfairly. Servers are not entitled by expecting to be fairly compensated by those to whom we have entrusted these powers, least of all when the situation is known and recognized as widely as it is. And so, I ask you to kindly stop abusing the powers that you have over us, lest you one day find yourself in a position where someone holds the same power over you.
- See more at: http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/08/2119/#comment-158897
Posted July 24, 2014 at 4:16 AM
Go fuck yourself.
I do not have a habit of saying that to people, but seriously, go fuck yourself.
I have never in my entire career met a single person who has ever tampered with food. You are painting an entire industry as criminals and assholes based on nothing more than your own sorry excuses. If you have ever had your food tampered with or suspect that your food was tampered with then I do hereby apologize on behalf of the entire hospitality industry. That was wrong and the culprit deserves whatever justice they get. But that does not change my message. Go. Fuck. Yourself.
I cannot believe how entitled you are. What the fuck do you do? Who the fuck put you up on your high horse? Who the fuck are you to imply that I, with my two bachelor degrees (Yes, two, and I tend bar because I like doing that, thanks), am so clearly worthless as a person that I don?t even deserve the minimum wage while I bring your fat ass food, fight with the kitchen to ensure that said food is delivered according to standard, jump through every hoop I can to ensure you have a pleasant evening? All this while I juggle six other tables, make recommendations based on my years of knowledge, make sure that the small family with the crying baby is kept away from your section, take your dirty dishes away, play for you at a much lower wage and clean up after you?re gone? Fun fact, servers are not order takers. There?s a thousand things we have to do to make sure you enjoy your night out, and there are a lot of us, including myself, who do it first and foremost FOR YOU. Because we know you want to have a nice night, and will be happy to have given it to you without the tip crossing our minds.
But you? Your meal was subsidized by our crappy wages, and you have the sheer fucking gall to try to claim that I?m somehow not as worthwhile a human being as you are? Don?t even try to claim that isn?t what you were getting at. You said, verbatim, ?I know you make less than the minimum wage. I also think that is more than you were worth.? So again, I dare you, tell me what you do? Tell my why the fuck you think you?re worth so much fucking more than me. Don?t tell me it?s the market. Don?t tell me it?s because you somehow contribute more to society or to the economy. Tell me why you, as a person, are worth so much more. I fucking dare you.
Reply.
P.S. Our wage is deemed to be fair because of the expectation that gratuities will support us beyond our wages; education and skill level have little to do with it. Gratuities are the most pure form of capitalism, where the relationship between service provider and consumer is direct and payment for services rendered is entirely at the discretion of the consumer, as a means of incentivising better service and promoting competition. By not tipping, you are effectively leeching off the contributions of others. You exploit a system designed to give you the power to pay what you believe is fair compensation for services rendered. As a server (or currently, bartender) I have no power in this exchange. I have no way to deny you service if the agreed upon price (zero, in your case) is unfair, and I have no means of appeal if my labour is exploited for the benefit of some other party (again, you). You sir, have been given all the power and you are exploiting it. You demand that we provide you with a service, knowing that we have subsidized the cost of the product, knowing that you have sole authority to set the price for our services and knowing that we have no recourse if you set the price unfairly. Servers are not entitled by expecting to be fairly compensated by those to whom we have entrusted these powers, least of all when the situation is known and recognized as widely as it is. And so, I ask you to kindly stop abusing the powers that you have over us, lest you one day find yourself in a position where someone holds the same power over you.
- See more at: http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/08/2119/#comment-158897
I borrowed a coworkers credentials about the whole "2 degrees" thing just to make a point, but the rest is all true. This was the original comment:
Tampering with people?s food is a felony. I can?t believe how entitled these waitresses and waiters think they are. Your job is classified as unskilled by the Department of Labor. You are paid wages deemed fair for your lack of education and skill level. I don?t tip because I feel a waitress taking my order, or refilling my drink and putting food on my table is not worthy of a tip. The walk from the kitchen to my table is not that far. It?s not like you had to scale mountains to bring me the food you didn?t even prepare. I know you make less than minimum wage. I also think that is more than you were worth. - See more at: http://www.bbb.org/blog/2011/08/2119/#comment-158897
Anyways, I'm here for three simple reasons. I want to know if you tip service employees, especially in restaurants. I want to know why you do or don't. And I want to know what you think about tipping in general. The first one you can knock off in the poll, but I really am genuinely curious about the second and third. I wanted to come here because I wanted to informed opinions of people I generally respect, not just some "controversy-for-hits" blogger. I know this has been done before, but I always like fresh conversation, so thanks in advance for putting your opinions out there!
EDIT: Two things here. One, sorry about the poll. The options are meant to be as follows:
1. Yes, it's customary where I live
2. Yes, although it's not customary
3. No, although it's customary where I live
4. No, it's not customary where I live
Second, sorry about the similar thread to a current one. I mostly lurk in the dark, dank underbelly of R&P so I don't really know what kind of threads are active right now.
EDIT 2:
A general theme here that I'm noticing is people claiming not to get why the whole gratuity system exists. As someone with a lot of hospitality experience (and hospitality management experience) allow me to explain.
Basically, low wages subsidize lower food costs. Food is cheap and portions are large in the US and Canada (I use Great Britain and Ireland as my point of comparison because of familiarity) precisely because servers are paid less than the minimum wage. The guest pays less because the server is paid less; it doesn't take a microeconomics specialist to see how this one works. In fact, all staff are paid less, including the kitchen and support staff, because of mandatory tip-sharing schemes. So effectively, low wages subsidize the lower cost of the food.
Of course, we all know that the whole "food being cheaper" thing isn't necessarily true. In fact, people often complain that food is more expensive than it seems because they're expected to pay a gratuity. Contrary to popular belief, this is not an example of penny pinching or gouging or exploitation by management, or at least that isn't the intention (Restaurant managers and owners adjust costs to ensure stable profit margins, so believe me, they're making money no matter what they pay for labor). Rather, this is meant to be a very pure expression of capitalism, one that empowers consumers to pay what they feel the server deserves. Prices for food are fixed a) because the price for product is relatively stable, and food-costs make up an enormous portion of restaurant costs and b) because the purchase of a product is a relatively uncontroversial thing. Business provides a product at a fixed price, consumer buys said product for said price. This is true, well, everywhere.
However, when a consumer goes to a restaurant there are two components to their night out: product and service. The price of the former is fixed, but the consumer is given the ability to decide the price of the second based on what sort of experience they have. This is where the disconnect often occurs. Consumers see gratuities as a sort of reward (as they are in places like Great Britain and Ireland) while employees see them as being fairly compensated for services rendered. The restaurant trusts and empowers consumer to use sound judgement and pay servers based on their performance. The philosophy behind this is very capitalistic in its intent; the middle man of the employer is eliminated and the consumer is able to purchase service directly from the person providing it. The reason servers are often so indignant at the idea of not being tipped is because we support the sort of direct relationship we share with our consumers, and we feel that by not tipping people have betrayed our trust and exploited their position of power. The way we see it, we aren't simply order takers, we're service people who make it our mission to ensure consumers have a pleasant experience. It's important to note that we don't expect people to tip on most take-out orders, because in that case we really are just an order taker, a point of sale that facilitates the movement of product. We have provided no real service and don't feel like we should be paid for doing effectively nothing. In that case, tipping really is just a bonus.
Of course, we all know that the whole "food being cheaper" thing isn't necessarily true. In fact, people often complain that food is more expensive than it seems because they're expected to pay a gratuity. Contrary to popular belief, this is not an example of penny pinching or gouging or exploitation by management, or at least that isn't the intention (Restaurant managers and owners adjust costs to ensure stable profit margins, so believe me, they're making money no matter what they pay for labor). Rather, this is meant to be a very pure expression of capitalism, one that empowers consumers to pay what they feel the server deserves. Prices for food are fixed a) because the price for product is relatively stable, and food-costs make up an enormous portion of restaurant costs and b) because the purchase of a product is a relatively uncontroversial thing. Business provides a product at a fixed price, consumer buys said product for said price. This is true, well, everywhere.
However, when a consumer goes to a restaurant there are two components to their night out: product and service. The price of the former is fixed, but the consumer is given the ability to decide the price of the second based on what sort of experience they have. This is where the disconnect often occurs. Consumers see gratuities as a sort of reward (as they are in places like Great Britain and Ireland) while employees see them as being fairly compensated for services rendered. The restaurant trusts and empowers consumer to use sound judgement and pay servers based on their performance. The philosophy behind this is very capitalistic in its intent; the middle man of the employer is eliminated and the consumer is able to purchase service directly from the person providing it. The reason servers are often so indignant at the idea of not being tipped is because we support the sort of direct relationship we share with our consumers, and we feel that by not tipping people have betrayed our trust and exploited their position of power. The way we see it, we aren't simply order takers, we're service people who make it our mission to ensure consumers have a pleasant experience. It's important to note that we don't expect people to tip on most take-out orders, because in that case we really are just an order taker, a point of sale that facilitates the movement of product. We have provided no real service and don't feel like we should be paid for doing effectively nothing. In that case, tipping really is just a bonus.
So that's how the system works. I guess the question now is whether or not we think it's a good system.
