Poll: (TLAB:LOK Discussion) Do the Equalists have a point?

senordesol

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I'm a big fan of The Last Airbender Series, and The Legend of Korra has really been ramping up these past few episodes. But as I've been discussing the show with my friend, something struck me: Do the equalists have a point?

Let's break it down: The entirety of the known world is ruled by benders to the point that each nation is actually named after the element of the predominant bender population there (fire, air, water, earth). Now there is a United Republic featuring elements from all four, however -again- the ruling council consists entirely of benders: One Fire representative, One Earth, One Air (interesting note: there are less than a dozen Air Benders in the world at this point), TWO Water, but no non-benders.

Historically (save for just a few exceptions) each nation has been ruled by a bender (Fire Lord Zuko/Azula/Ozai/Azulon/Souzin, Earth King Bumi, Long Feng [of the Ba-Sing-Sei Dai Li], and even Avatars themselves [Kiyoshi Island]). Everything from attire to sports is pretty much defined by the bending prowess of the host nation.

Furthermore, aside from the 'simple' vanilla control over Earth, Fire, Water, and Air; some benders can 'kick it up a notch' in a variety of ways. For example: a Water Bender's power increases during a full moon and -for some- so much so that they can 'blood bend' (turn another person into an unwilling slave by bending the water in their body) some blood benders are so powerful that they can control groups of people even during the day. A centennial comet increases a fire bender's power several hundred fold (nearly allowing a fire lord to burn an entire nation to the ground in a matter of hours [with help]).

Until now, a non-bender had little recourse to resist any abuses of power by benders apart from 'give them no reason to notice you'. Also, until this point, the world has been dependent on benders for major industrial work. However, now the world has reached circa 1920s-1930s era technology. Machines and motors can no start to do the jobs benders used to, and there is of course: Amon. Amon is the head of the 'equalist' movement and has a unique ability to remove one's bending permanently and means to do just that to every bender around the wold until there are none left. The act is brief (and may be slightly painful) but appears to render no permanent harm to the former bender (also, it remains unclear if they can pass on the bending power to their offspring after undergoing this).

Now this is no idle bigotry. Benders can and do pose a real and quantifiable threat to each other and non-benders if they have a mind to, and they rule over non-benders almost absolutely. The show has displayed that once the government (even the ostensibly 'peaceful' ones like the United Republic) decides to kill a protest, just a dozen or so benders are required to put it down.

So what's to be done? Do NBs sue for governmental representation within the existing nations? Do they try to carve out a piece of the world to call their own nation (perhaps risking a brief war)? Or do they say 'screw it, the threat's too big' and 'equalize' everybody.
 

cactusjuice

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Sue for government. Amon was a villain that actually scared me, unlike ozai. Equilists have a point but they're doing it wrong
 

Knight Templar

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"the ruling council consists entirely of benders"
Previously it had at least two non-benders, with a non-bender in charge. We see no oppression of non-benders before Amon gives reason for there to be. I mean it's not as if non-benders hare without respect or power, the most powerful businessman isn't a bender, the King of the Earth Kingdom in ATLA wasn't even a bender. EDIT: Do we even know for sure that every council member is a bender currently?

"Until now, a non-bender had little recourse to resist any abuses of power by benders apart from 'give them no reason to notice you'. "
In the first episode we see police giving people a means of recourse, these guys were not afraid to arrest the Avatar for breaking the law. They have a police force and they don't ignore non-benders. Tarlock acted unlawfully and abused his position. His bending was not the problem, the fact he was creating and exasperating a crisis top force out other members of government was.

We have seen zero oppression to give Amon cause to act, but we see some because of his actions. He himself is a bender, and he wants to commit genocide because people can bend? That won't even improve anything because he's arming everybody with shock gloves mechs and other dangerous weapons built for battle. So even if all goes to plan, nothing changes except the economic collapse of Republic city since it runs on benders, they literally power the city.
But the means by which he will remove all bending is a strange one. A person who has had their bending removed can have children who can bend. So does he plan to prevent these children from being born or personally touch the soul of every newborn child to be sure they can't bend?

So bad plan, questionable gains, terrible methods and hypocrisy of the highest order, all this with nothing present to justify any of it. They do not have a point.
 

ChupathingyX

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Ever since I saw this image...


...I've always imagined the Russian Revolution as a source of inspiration for the Equalists. With that in mind, "good intentions but doing it wrong" seems like an apt description of Amon and the Equalists. And by good intentions I mean "equality without sacrifice", not "equality by getting rid of benders" which is what Amon is doing.

We've already seen the capabilities of the Equalists; they're smart, methodical, organised and so far seem unified in their goals leading to, I presume, almost no objections within the ranks.

However, the season hasn't even ended yet and we don't know Amon's true motivations or even who he is so we don't have all the facts. So I'm saving final judgement for that time comes.

senordesol said:
Now there is a United Republic featuring elements from all four, however -again- the ruling council consists entirely of benders: One Fire representative, One Earth, One Air (interesting note: there are less than a dozen Air Benders in the world at this point), TWO Water, but no non-benders.
Currently, yes.

But remember that Sokka was a member of the council at one point.
 

Popadoo

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Think of it this way, if someone was born with amazing stamina, and he could win almost any race, or perhaps someone was very intelligent from a young age. Should we take those away from them just because the rest of us aren't that awesome?
Cos' in the end, bending is awesome. Equalists needs to appreciate how awesome it is.
 

Hoplon

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Yes equalists have a point, that doesn't make crippling some one more of a good idea.
 

Eclipse Dragon

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He's taking away peoples natural talent, he may justify it as "They are abusing their powers" however, he wishes to take away the abilities of ALL benders, regardless of whether they are abusing their power or not. This is discrimination against a particular group of people and thus bad.

When I think of Amon and the equalist I just can't help but think about Syndrome from the Incredibles

"I did it without your precious gifts, your oh-so-special powers. I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics the world has ever seen!
And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so that everyone can have powers. Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... no one will be."
 

Helmholtz Watson

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senordesol said:
So what's to be done? Do NBs sue for governmental representation within the existing nations? Do they try to carve out a piece of the world to call their own nation (perhaps risking a brief war)? Or do they say 'screw it, the threat's too big' and 'equalize' everybody.
I suggest you read this summary of Harrison Bergeron [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron], the idea behind the "equalist" seem eerily similar.
 

DEAD34345

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I've never watched Avatar, but going by the information you've supplied, I'd agree with the "Equalists" entirely. Also, that world sounds messed up. "Special" people born with the power to enslave unwilling people, or destroy entire nations like some kind of living nuke? Definitely wrong, and both unfair and dangerous for those without these powers. Even if the current ruling "benders" happen to be relatively benevolent, there is no guarantee that this would remain the case, and it would only take one extremely powerful bender or group of benders to impose their will on the entire world. If there is a way to remove these powers without a mass genocide or other serious negative effects, then I would say it is only right to do so.
 

Theron Julius

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Lunncal said:
I've never watched Avatar, but going by the information you've supplied, I'd agree with the "Equalists" entirely. Also, that world sounds messed up. "Special" people born with the power to enslave unwilling people, or destroy entire nations like some kind of living nuke? Definitely wrong, and both unfair and dangerous for those without these powers. Even if the current ruling "benders" happen to be relatively benevolent, there is no guarantee that this would remain the case, and it would only take one extremely powerful bender or group of benders to impose their will on the entire world. If there is a way to remove these powers without a mass genocide or other serious negative effects, then I would say it is only right to do so.
Don't listen entirely to the OP. He's ridiculously biased and doesn't have his facts straight. Allow me to straighten some of them for you.

First off I'd like to note that the "special" people actually make up a sizable portion of the population. They aren't a majority, but it's not like there's only a few of them. Additionally, they're ordinary people in every other respect. They have no greater tendency to be "evil" than non-benders.

In regards to the power grabs by a single bender or group of benders, there are other benders who wouldn't want to see such people taking power. And if they fail then the avatar can almost certainly step in and prevent it. In fact, the entire first series is pretty much devoted to the avatar doing just that.

The ability to "enslave" people (bloodbending) is illegal and incredibly rare. There are very few even capable of the feat, let alone know how to do it and are willing to use it. Doing it under any circumstance warrants swift and harsh punishment under the law.

The comet that give firebenders immense power only comes around every 100 years and only lasts a few hours. To destroy a nation with it takes immense numbers and years of planning and it has only been done once against a nation that had no formal military of any sort.

Finally, I'd like to note that there is no real evidence of a correlation between bending ability and political power. There are only two roles that require bending, which are the Fire Lord, who is leader of the Fire Nation, and membership on any of the Air Nomad councils (which doesn't really count since all Air Nomads were naturally benders anyway). Every other nation has no bending requirements for any position. In fact, during Avatar Aang's time, the Earth King and both of the Northern and Southern Water Tribe chiefs were non-benders. Also there have been at least two non-bender council members in the United Republic's brief history. There have quite likely been more that we don't know of yet.

TL;DR: Benders aren't that bad, Lunncal. You're just being misled by a biased OP.

P.S. You should watch A:TLA and LOK. They're some of the greatest animated shows out there.
 

ColaWarVeteran

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Theron Julius said:
The comet that give firebenders immense power only comes around every 100 years and only lasts a few hours.
Let's not forget that this is counter-balanced by the fact that firebenders can't bend during a solar eclipse.
 

Lizardon

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First thing I'd like to point out is that only Tenzin and Tarrlok have been seen bending, we don't know about the other 3 beyond that they are pro-bending. Also the council was shown to at one stage have Sokka as a chairman. Benders have not always been the rulers. The Chief of the Northern Water Tribe wasn't a bender(or he preferred to fight with weapons) and neither was the Earth King. The only reason the Fire Lord is always a fire bender is that they have a monarchy and bending appears to be hereditary.

And I don't think Kiyoshi Island is a good example for your case as the most respected people on that island, the Kiyoshi Warriors, were all non-benders.
Everything from attire to sports is pretty much defined by the bending prowess of the host nation.
The attire is less to do with bending and more with culture. You don't wear water tribe clothing because you are a water bender, but because you belong to/associate with the water tribe (See Tenzen's wife, born in the Earth Kingdom but wears the robes of the Air Nomads).

Until now, a non-bender had little recourse to resist any abuses of power by benders apart from 'give them no reason to notice you'.
There were several options to physically resist, such as Chi-blocking or simply being a better fighter, and now those electric gloves. Benders are often defeated by non-bender (Mei, Tylee, Kiyoshi Warriors, The Equalists). This argument could be applied to anything. Some people are stronger than me and could abuse there strength, so we should take their natural abilities away?

The fact that the Equalists can so easily subdue so many benders can't of goes against their argument that benders can oppress the non-benders simply with there bending alone.

Throughout the series, I've yet to see any real oppression of non-benders by benders. The closest was the extortion Korra witnessed at the markets, but those men could have run the same operation with any weapons.

Plus there is the historic and cultural aspect. Bending makes up a large proportion of each nations history, culture and identity and you should not take that away for such groundless reasons.

Aang was shown taking away the bending of Tarlock's father, yet he managed to have a son who inherited he's bending skills. Assuming Amon uses a similar method, which he appears to, he is going to constantly have another generation of benders to deal with.
 

WanderingFool

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senordesol said:
While the Equalists have a point, their methods are not justified because of it. There are more peaceful ways to bring about change than simply force one to give up a part of themselves, or worse (as Amon does) in taking it away by force.

Lizardon said:
[spoilers=Off topic:] There is a major flaw in Amon's plan.]Aang was shown taking away the bending of Tarlock's father, yet he managed to have a son who inherited he's bending skills. Assuming Amon uses a similar method, which he appears to, he is going to constantly have another generation of benders to deal with.[/spoiler]
There was actually a page on TVTropes about the Fridged Horror in LOK, that because of that, he might have something even worse in mind to handle that...
 

teebeeohh

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No
it's kinda like bashing in smart peoples heads because they run things and dumb people feel threatened by it. Bending is just a talent/ability that some have and some don't and having your country run by benders is a lot less arbitrary than having someone run a country because his dad did.
and at this point in the technological development where people who are very skilled but lack the ability to bend can rather easily level the playing field by employing technology.
 

Fiad

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Lizardon said:
Aang was shown taking away the bending of Tarlock's father, yet he managed to have a son who inherited he's bending skills. Assuming Amon uses a similar method, which he appears to, he is going to constantly have another generation of benders to deal with.
Do we actually know if he was born before or after his father's bending was taken away?
 

dancinginfernal

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Fiad said:
Lizardon said:
Aang was shown taking away the bending of Tarlock's father, yet he managed to have a son who inherited he's bending skills. Assuming Amon uses a similar method, which he appears to, he is going to constantly have another generation of benders to deal with.
Do we actually know if he was born before or after his father's bending was taken away?
He was sentenced to life in prison, so there is a very, very slim chance of Tarrlok being born after the fact.
 

Xixikal

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Amon presents a compelling argument, non-benders have been subject to the whims of benders for time immemorial. Were I a non-bender I would follow Amon without question, he provides a figure behind which people can unite and fight for what they believe. Just as the Avatar represents benders. The Equalists have a strong point, and they're only doing what they think is necessary to achieve their goals. Not that I condone removal of bending powers, but I sympathise with their cause.
 

Lizardon

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Fiad said:
Do we actually know if he was born before or after his father's bending was taken away?
dancinginfernal said:
He was sentenced to life in prison, so there is a very, very slim chance of Tarrlok being born after the fact.
Tarrlok is said to be 37 years old. In episode 4, he mentions that 42 years ago Yakone threatened Republic City. In episode 9, we discover that Yakone was found guilty and sentenced life in prison. So it appears that Tarrlok was born around 5 years after the trial. So I guess Yakone must have escaped at some point.

EDIT: Also if Yakone already had a son during the time he was being hunted by the law, it probably would have been widely known, but Tenzin and Lin were surprised when Korra told them.
 

JaceArveduin

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They have some points, just not enough in my opinion. The problem with no one having bending is that it'll just be the fastest/strongest/smartest. And even with bending, someone who's a better fighter can still beat a bender, which they clearly show.

Overall, it's human nature that's needing a cleansing, not the abilities of the humans *shrug*
 

FatalFox

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I was very confused when I saw the title and subsequently the options, I thought you were talking about political parties and repulicans as benders (as in bending over and taking all the nonsense right wing politicians say) and equality as IRL where we still have problems with it.