Poll: Utopia?

[Di22y]

What would you prefer? Is there another way? I live within a democracy and have often wandered what would happen if nobody voted? Either look it up or let us know what you think should/would happen. Would you have to experience all the options in order to define one as your preference? Your opinion would differ between dictator IE if a dictator enforced everything you believed then that would probably prove to be your utopia but if they didn't then you may go for another option. I can't stop you from posting your idealistic view of utopia so go ahead. Myself believes in anarchy.

Will argue with whoever I want to.

 

[Labyrinth]

I'd argue for anarchic communism, which isn't up there.

And before someone decides to tell me that 'this is a contradiction' please remember that Anarchy is the lack of a centralised power government, not necessarily chaos. This also means that you can have direct democracy, with people deciding what happens when it is relative to them.

So Democratic anarchic communism.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

If anarchy could exist in its true form, not chaos, but pure freedom, that would be a utopia.

 

[cainx10a]

A dictatorship done right, with a bunch of philanthropists at the head of the governing body would be the greatest, placing science and education of the masses as a top priority, free trade with like minded countries and only using the military power as defensive entities.

 

[Easykill]

Anarchy. I'm doing a project on Pierre-Joseph Proudhon right now, but my views actually coincide more with the modern "Chaos" view of Anarchy than those Proudhon actually founded. Development of the self through choice, choice through freedom. I have enough faith in [educated]humanity that I can't see it actually ending up as a giant slug-fest, and for the people who do go crazy... I rate my liberty over my safety. Besides, in a society of freedom for the strong, all you need to do is be strong and you fix all your problems.

Negative liberty is way better than positive, by the way.

 

[Earthbound]

A utopia is a perfect society, one in which its inhabitants can live in happiness without being restricted. I'd say the closest you can come to this is minarchism. Minarchism pretty much says that the government protects the rights and liberties of the people, as well as having a military strictly for defense, and that's it. The laws are pretty much "don't mess with other people and they won't mess with you." That being said, a true minarchist government would probably be either practically impossible or quickly corrupted by the second generation of politicians. For the first thirty or so years though, I think it would be the closest to a utopia that you can get.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

Computer-lead technocracy with humanity modified to pleasure-feeling sheep, their brains removed and placed in jars to live out their days in mindless joy until the end of the universe.

 

[Labyrinth]

Computer-lead technocracy with humanity modified to pleasure-feeling sheep, their brains removed and placed in jars to live out their days in mindless joy until the end of the universe.

What do you mean, "Modified?" I just have to walk through the local mall to see this in practice.

 

[John Galt]

Modified version of National Socialism. Strong, centralized authority is able to get shit done without dealing with red tape, while keeping the population content with strong, nationalist culture. Racial and ethnic differences are downplayed in favor of loyalty to the state and fellow citizens. Freedoms are tolerated to the point at which they begin to counter-act the good of society, ie. free speech until you lose it because of sedition, right to bear arms until you commit an armed crime, right to live however you want until you impose it on fellow citizens. A moral standard is agreed upon and enforced through peer-pressure, conformity and discipline being concepts drilled into citizens from early education. Upon becoming an adult, each citizen is required to serve at least two years in either the military or a civil volunteer group in order to be granted "full" rights, that is, to vote and such. Government controls a large chunk of the economic infrastructure with non-essential manufacturing and service industries remaining in the private sector. Social welfare for able-bodied citizens is unheard of, replaced by employment in nationalized industries.

Oh and rallies too. Shitloads of rallies.

 

[PurpleRain]

Modified version of National Socialism. Strong, centralized authority is able to get shit done without dealing with red tape, while keeping the population content with strong, nationalist culture. Racial and ethnic differences are downplayed in favor of loyalty to the state and fellow citizens. Freedoms are tolerated to the point at which they begin to counter-act the good of society, ie. free speech until you lose it because of sedition, right to bear arms until you commit an armed crime, right to live however you want until you impose it on fellow citizens. A moral standard is agreed upon and enforced through peer-pressure, conformity and discipline being concepts drilled into citizens from early education. Upon becoming an adult, each citizen is required to serve at least two years in either the military or a civil volunteer group in order to be granted "full" rights, that is, to vote and such. Government controls a large chunk of the economic infrastructure with non-essential manufacturing and service industries remaining in the private sector. Social welfare for able-bodied citizens is unheard of, replaced by employment in nationalized industries.

Oh and rallies too. Shitloads of rallies.

And you can have big Tv's of yourself everywhere and a camera on each road end. Oh and Civil Protection officers. Don't forget those two handing out regular beatings.

 

[Limasol]

I don't know why communism gets such a bad rap. Its way better than anarchy and yet because there's no crazy mustached bloke to attach to anarchy its all fairies and rainbows...

 

[Brett Alex]

I'd argue for anarchic communism, which isn't up there.

And before someone decides to tell me that 'this is a contradiction' please remember that Anarchy is the lack of a centralised power government, not necessarily chaos. This also means that you can have direct democracy, with people deciding what happens when it is relative to them.

So Democratic anarchic communism.

Now that is a niche form of government.

Were you perhaps inspired by Nestor Mahkno and the Mahknovashina?

EDIT:

I don't know why communism gets such a bad rap. Its way better than anarchy and yet because there's no crazy mustached bloke to attach to anarchy its all fairies and rainbows...

Oh but there is. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno] He was just buried very well by the communists.

 

[Amnestic]

Modified version of National Socialism. Strong, centralized authority is able to get shit done without dealing with red tape, while keeping the population content with strong, nationalist culture. Racial and ethnic differences are downplayed in favor of loyalty to the state and fellow citizens. Freedoms are tolerated to the point at which they begin to counter-act the good of society, ie. free speech until you lose it because of sedition, right to bear arms until you commit an armed crime, right to live however you want until you impose it on fellow citizens. A moral standard is agreed upon and enforced through peer-pressure, conformity and discipline being concepts drilled into citizens from early education. Upon becoming an adult, each citizen is required to serve at least two years in either the military or a civil volunteer group in order to be granted "full" rights, that is, to vote and such. Government controls a large chunk of the economic infrastructure with non-essential manufacturing and service industries remaining in the private sector. Social welfare for able-bodied citizens is unheard of, replaced by employment in nationalized industries.

Oh and rallies too. Shitloads of rallies.

And you can have big Tv's of yourself everywhere and a camera on each road end. Oh and Civil Protection officers. Don't forget those two handing out regular beatings.

He can do Galtcasts every few hours!

More meritocracies in the world please. They're the greatest.

 

[PurpleRain]

And you can have big Tv's of yourself everywhere and a camera on each road end. Oh and Civil Protection officers. Don't forget those two handing out regular beatings.

He can do Galtcasts every few hours!

In between counting his money and standing on the downtrodden lives of his people. No wait, they get locked away in jails. Don't want the streets to look dirty.

EDIT

Ok, I'm tugging his chain now. I just don't like the whole National Socialism, 'your country comes before you' kind of thing. People should always come first as a priority. Free choice, free will. You shouldn't have to earn the right to vote for manditory service. I say fuck that. I would molotive shit if I was under that rule. I'd be shot, but I'd make a stand. Like a virus I will be.

 

[Labyrinth]

Now that is a niche form of government.

Were you perhaps inspired by Nestor Mahkno and the Mahknovashina?

I'm a niche kind of person. And no, it's just what I've been coming to over the last several years.

 

[Easykill]

Modified version of National Socialism. Strong, centralized authority is able to get shit done without dealing with red tape, while keeping the population content with strong, nationalist culture. Racial and ethnic differences are downplayed in favor of loyalty to the state and fellow citizens. Freedoms are tolerated to the point at which they begin to counter-act the good of society, ie. free speech until you lose it because of sedition, right to bear arms until you commit an armed crime, right to live however you want until you impose it on fellow citizens. A moral standard is agreed upon and enforced through peer-pressure, conformity and discipline being concepts drilled into citizens from early education. Upon becoming an adult, each citizen is required to serve at least two years in either the military or a civil volunteer group in order to be granted "full" rights, that is, to vote and such. Government controls a large chunk of the economic infrastructure with non-essential manufacturing and service industries remaining in the private sector. Social welfare for able-bodied citizens is unheard of, replaced by employment in nationalized industries.

Oh and rallies too. Shitloads of rallies.

I'm trying to decide which of us would hate the other's utopia more. So far, I'm going with me. You utilize almost everything I hate to form the backbone of an Authoritarian nation.

I can't really call anything you wrote unreasonable, but it's clear that your values are mirror opposite to mine. You see society as a machine, and value it for fulfilling it's purpose well, increasing the efficiency of this machine will lead to the general betterment of the highest percentage of the populace while raising the portions of humanity that you actually consider worth something to the top gradually. I on the other hand, also see society as a machine, but the instant it stops working for me, is the day I abandon it. Society carries with it bias. The same bias that I noted for suiting you, the bias for certain people to emerge consistently on the upper rungs. Thus, it is not that society is a concept of the whole being more important than the one, it is a method of assigning value to humans and tasking them accordingly as master and servant. I don't like that. I'd go deeper; but really, it comes down to sensing the system, seeing the barriers built around me and just wanting to smash them for being there, to dare try to stop me from going every which way I please. I like it when people around me mirror that somewhat, when they have... Ego. The individual will always be more valuable to me than the whole.

If either or both of us should gain major political power in the future, one of us is going to get assassinated by the other, I do believe.

EDIT: PurpleRain, on the other hand, I could get along with. Rebellion as a virtue.

 

[Brett Alex]

Now that is a niche form of government.

Were you perhaps inspired by Nestor Mahkno and the Mahknovashina?

I'm a niche kind of person. And no, it's just what I've been coming to over the last several years.

Oh that makes it even more interesting. Y'see Mahkno [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Mahkno] believed that Lenin and Trotsky, hell, even Marx had got it wrong. He believed in no authoritarian government, even for the transitional period.

He is a very interesting chap, and did some pretty amazing things with what little resources and manpower he had. The bottom of the Wiki page I linked has a few essays by and about him.

The only problem is that because there is such little information about that period its possible his style of government, and anarcho-communism in general never worked and simply couldn't work.

That said, those sources provided probably have bias, but they also seem reasonably reliable.

You can usually tell which parts are exaggerated, like the account of Mahkno and 30 of his finest horsemen routing a 1000 strong infantry force equipped with machineguns.

But yes, a very interesting read and it would be nice to think that his anarcho-communism would work in the long run, although its dubious if it would.

 

[John Galt]

And you can have big Tv's of yourself everywhere and a camera on each road end. Oh and Civil Protection officers. Don't forget those two handing out regular beatings.

He can do Galtcasts every few hours!

In between counting his money and standing on the downtrodden lives of his people. No wait, they get locked away in jails. Don't want the streets to look dirty.

EDIT

Ok, I'm tugging his chain now. I just don't like the whole National Socialism, 'your country comes before you' kind of thing. People should always come first as a priority. Free choice, free will. You shouldn't have to earn the right to vote for manditory service. I say fuck that. I would molotive shit if I was under that rule. I'd be shot, but I'd make a stand. Like a virus I will be.

*Galt appears on a screen, his featureless face smiling at the crowds gathered below him*

"Citizen's of Galtopia! Rejoice! for we have finally removed the last of the dirty poor from our streets! At last! Our sidewalks are the envy of all nations, free from the parasitic nature of the homeless! Through the valiant struggles of our comrades serving on the Purplerainian Front, we have been able to preserve out grand society, and in doing so, create the best goddamn sidewalks in the world. I declare tomorrow a national holiday. Citizens marked as "anti-social deviants" will receive double ration of beatings! Go home my people! Drink yourselves silly as you watch your jackbooted overlords slap some anarchists around!"

 

[Labyrinth]

But yes, a very interesting read and it would be nice to think that his anarcho-communism would work in the long run, although its dubious if it would.

That could be said for anything, from capitalism to monarchy to Pastafarianism. People change their dependencies, society shifts its values, the world keeps turning

 

[poopdog]

I would go for the benevolent dictatorship.
the populence all works in forced labor camps for 12 hour work days and armed gards at every turn. the people would be so busy that they couldn't possibly ressist. who said that the utopia had to be good for everyone?