If she wants to play a game with a not sexualized strong female protagonist make her play Silent Hill 3.
Poll: Videogames and Women
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If you're going to pick apart the blatantly exaggerated description I wrote for the sake of a comedically visceral mental image i'm surprised you didn't opt for pointing out how Odor can't be visible. Surely that would have satisfied your pedantry moreso?Farseer Lolotea said:
I've been playing games for 20 years - from girlhood to womanhood.
Yes, there's still room for improvement - a whole lot of it actually. We've actually run into the problem where wanting to be portrayed normally has become some type of intense woman's rights argument and tied up in feminism, when really it's just a desire to see ourselves in the games we play (and most of us are not busty, poured into our suits, perfect hair after falling down a mine-shaft types... and yes I'm aware of the argument that most men who play games aren't 40 inch muscle chested army bad-asses either, but that's somewhat tangential to my point).
Either you play through the pain and accept that games are what they are for now and continue to work for them to be better wherever you can (which is what I recommend, since there are so many issues in the world that need attention as well, some that are actually quite a bit more pressing, if not so constantly close to our everyday) or you play games like Fallout/Skyrim where you don't hardly ever see the main protagonist after character creation and the game world is evenhanded enough (some might say generic, but I mean it as a positive here so I won't) to be comfortable.
Yes, there's still room for improvement - a whole lot of it actually. We've actually run into the problem where wanting to be portrayed normally has become some type of intense woman's rights argument and tied up in feminism, when really it's just a desire to see ourselves in the games we play (and most of us are not busty, poured into our suits, perfect hair after falling down a mine-shaft types... and yes I'm aware of the argument that most men who play games aren't 40 inch muscle chested army bad-asses either, but that's somewhat tangential to my point).
Either you play through the pain and accept that games are what they are for now and continue to work for them to be better wherever you can (which is what I recommend, since there are so many issues in the world that need attention as well, some that are actually quite a bit more pressing, if not so constantly close to our everyday) or you play games like Fallout/Skyrim where you don't hardly ever see the main protagonist after character creation and the game world is evenhanded enough (some might say generic, but I mean it as a positive here so I won't) to be comfortable.
Well...for what it's worth, you're not alone, even among straight males. My husband, for one, would agree with you on pretty much all counts there.J-meMalone said:
No...because odor can be indicated visibly. For example, via the use of wafterons [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BriffitsAndSqueans], or by having flies buzzing around like the centaurs in WoW.RagTagBand said:
And I'm not sure what, exactly, you think you're proving by getting snide and huffy.
It's tolerable, I suppose. Games just tend to be shitty and poorly written in general, which is why I tend to play MMOs, RTSs and Action RTSs that are more about skillful gameplay than decent plots. I don't have to deal with crappy characterisation, and the characters are always too small for me to care that their tits are hanging out (in the case of all the female avatars in HoN, for example). I don't feel the need to focus on the portrayal of female characters when it's really a much larger issue of immaturity in games. The fact is that they're about gameplay and at the moment they are no where near being on par with books or film as a medium of expression. Do they have the potential to be a fantastic medium for expression? Absolutely. I do think games are art, after all. They're just almost exclusively bad art, and that's because the target market of young males is almost exclusively stupid. The majority of games are to boys what shitty fiction like twilight is to girls. If you can get immense popularity by being terrible there's not much incentive to improve.
mass effect?..I digreeCaptainKarma said:I've been trying to get my sister into videogames lately (need an extra player for my HoN team), but one thing that's putting her off is the utterly reprehensible attitude that games, and gamers, have towards women.
We've all laughed at the Evony ads. But even mainstream games like
treat their female characters like...pieces of meat to be drooled over. Is this really the image we should be presenting to the world? The press is quick to label games as juvenile adolescent male fantasies and our response is to EMBRACE this criticism? What the hell?
And the community is barely any better. Friends of mine regularly keep their identities secret (unless teamspeak is involved) because of the torrent of abuse they get online. Don't believe me? Check out the fabulous http://fatuglyorslutty.com/ to see the vitriol lady gamers get.
This attitude is PERVASIVE. Look at Battlefield 3, banning women from its launch party (rather than telling the men "Dude, don't be a creep"), the creator of a fighting game (forget which, MvC maybe? I've lost the link) discussing, in a panel about female character design, which of his creations he'd like to have sex with.
Games have an image problem. But we don't want to fix it, we're happy in our little corner with our boobalicious characters and internalised misogyny.
We can be so much BETTER than this. How can we expect gaming to be taken seriously as an artform, and as a hobby, when we're happy to let this behaviour run unchecked?
mass effect has some of the best female charachters ever..(they have COMANDER SHEPARD for crying out loud) and miranda? *sigh* thats just like picking and choosing examples to fit what your trying to say...its actually a part of Miranda charahter
ALSO...you know what? I dont see this probelem *that bad* thease days in western games at least no more than movies or comics ...yes thats right, I havnt come a cross a female charachter so sexualised it made me annoyed
there might be less good females in agmes..but we'll get there..more or less
now that said..the abuse females get online..yeah its annoying
and banning women from Battlefeild 3 launch party? why the fuck did they do that?
bottom line...if it were that bad I wouldnt play games as much as I do
Ive already said this...but666Satsuki said:
personally..after all the game Ive played currently in this generation, my experience hasnt been that bad..at all
most of thease "over the top" sexualised charachters some from fighting games (non western?) and over the top stuff like Bayonetta
sure the females we have usually taken a backseat to the guys...but hardly any of them have worn less than a bikini
But... Is it so wrong to have a piece of entertainment designed to be enjoyed by men? Why not stop attacking games with sexy women and start asking for new IPs to be created that are more aimed at women and gender neutral while also allowing us men to enjoy digital boobies once in a while.
Here's a quote:Vault101 said:
"Nothing ruins a good LAN party like uncomfortable guests or lots of tension, both of which can result from mixing immature, misogynistic male-gamers with female counterparts. Though we?ve done our best to avoid these situations in years past, we?ve certainly had our share of problems. As a result, we no longer allow women to attend this event.?
No, really [http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=5811].
Time to break out the bingo card [http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu3zv0hom61qm8qvvo1_1280.png]! Here's a "but it?s not FOR women."Fieldy409 said:
Funny...I haven't seen any attacks at all. Or anyone saying anything against sexy women, for that matter.
Maybe it's not true in other countries, but here in America I find that pretty much every other market is geared towards women. Yes, yes I know we have SPIKE TV and other shitty channels like that. Once in a while there are movies that aren't pandering to all demographics, but most of the time I feel like there aren't anything that is strictly for men. I hate Axe commercials and Spike TV for the fact that it makes us all out to be dumb neanderthals, barely capable of forming coherent sentences, and only live to reproduce and hit things. I feel guilty at times for enjoying the T&A in the games listed in the post, but at the same time I don't want video games to turn into everything else. Something that must adhere to a specific set of rules, so that no one is "offended". I know for every Indigo Prophecy, where real people are portrayed, there's a DOA volleyball game, but if the video game market becomes like everything else I'm going to become a hermit. I know eventually it will become like everything else because of how popular it is, but we don't need to help send it to an early grave.
_!spoilers ahead!_ (for Bio Shock, if you haven't go fucking play it already)
EDIT- I forgot to include a point here, so here we go...Is the way women are objectified in certain games deplorable? Yes. The most we can do is not buy certain games. I just get tired of this constant debate over how women should be depicted in video games. It's fan service, will those games be taken seriously? No. Should they? No. Just like every tv show, book, movie, or piece of art has to be judged on it's own merits, so should video games. It's not that video games aren't art, it's just that no one is willing to view them yet in that light, except those of us who have enjoyed them. Remember playing through Bio Shock for the first time, seeing Andrew Ryan's demise, being shocked by Atlas' betrayal, and saving all of the little sisters and getting to see them all grown up on your deathbed. So...stop debating this useless topic and lobby for video games (good ones, anyway) to be seen as art!
_!spoilers ahead!_ (for Bio Shock, if you haven't go fucking play it already)
EDIT- I forgot to include a point here, so here we go...Is the way women are objectified in certain games deplorable? Yes. The most we can do is not buy certain games. I just get tired of this constant debate over how women should be depicted in video games. It's fan service, will those games be taken seriously? No. Should they? No. Just like every tv show, book, movie, or piece of art has to be judged on it's own merits, so should video games. It's not that video games aren't art, it's just that no one is willing to view them yet in that light, except those of us who have enjoyed them. Remember playing through Bio Shock for the first time, seeing Andrew Ryan's demise, being shocked by Atlas' betrayal, and saving all of the little sisters and getting to see them all grown up on your deathbed. So...stop debating this useless topic and lobby for video games (good ones, anyway) to be seen as art!
Room for improvement.
While I can't say I don't mind, being a guy and all, it gets really silly sometimes. Men are also exaggerated as fuck, though I agree it's not really on the same level.
A female game character I really like is Elena from the Uncharted series. One of the few times I've actually thought a character could be a real person. I know Emily Rose does her voice and motion capture, btw.
Would like to see more games with protagonists like her. I thought Square Enix had wised up with their new Tomb Raider, but looking at the trailer I was quickly proven wrong.
CLEVAAAAAGE!
While I can't say I don't mind, being a guy and all, it gets really silly sometimes. Men are also exaggerated as fuck, though I agree it's not really on the same level.
A female game character I really like is Elena from the Uncharted series. One of the few times I've actually thought a character could be a real person. I know Emily Rose does her voice and motion capture, btw.
Would like to see more games with protagonists like her. I thought Square Enix had wised up with their new Tomb Raider, but looking at the trailer I was quickly proven wrong.
CLEVAAAAAGE!
but....but....Farseer Lolotea said:
BUT THATS BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
I just *gasp*..ok...ok calm down
you know what? they should have made it female only..yes, made it female only for this very reason and make that absolutly clear, that would have shown them
..
what?....sorry your not making any senseBrionJames said:
ok heres how I perceive western entertainment
1. stuff for women (its usually SHIT)
2. stuff gor a general audience (which somtimes has a more male slant too it)
noe enough stuff for men? theres PLENTY that caters to mens taste...
Yes.Vault101 said:
Yes, it is.
But of course, that wouldn't have worked. There were men organizing it, you see.you know what? they should have made it female only..yes, made it female only for this very reason and make that absolutly clear, that would have shown them
And kicking the douchebags out if and when they surface? Clearly too stressful.
In short: Lifetime, Twilight, and other such products of applying "shrink it and pink it" to content rather than aesthetics. Shit is the word.Vault101 said:
How did I miss that? I...I feel shame right now. Are gamer guys that dickish around girls that someone felt the need to actively separate the two?Farseer Lolotea said:
At very least? Apparently, someone was that chickenshit on the subject of gamer guys being dickish around girls that they felt the need to do that.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The male 18-34 demographic is dominant in entertainment. Stuff aimed at women is specialised and niche as a rule. I don't know what America you're talking about.BrionJames said:
But you didn't answer my question. Is male oriented entertainment wrong? Should such a thing be suppressed and censored? The op implies there is something wrong with the three games from the pictures. I just don't get what it is.Farseer Lolotea said:
The games industry used to be 90% male but that changed a long time ago. Devs need to realize that and make games with different demographics in mind and gamers need to stop trying to censor games.
I like how only one or two people in this thread touch on the fact this makes the male gamers like idiots that buy games because of a pair of big boobs in the games. The thing is the oversexualization of female characters in games looks bad on both genders.
A bit more on topic: Honestly, there will always be room for improvement. The only way I see no more room for improvement is when women have crushed gravel for the sound of there voice with super-musculer bodies and men have over sized body parts to make them oversexualized. Saints row the Third helped with the latter of the two.
Edit: Oh, yeah. I forgot. That Miranda picture is an camera angle that hardly happens. When it does, it also happens to Jacob( not sure if that's the right name) and some other characters male and female also, what people are saying about Miranda's "cat suit" I can say about almost every male's shirt. I mean, they look like if they move too much they'll tear the shirt. Not saying its ok, just if we're going to talk sexualized clothes lets talk about all of it not just some of it.
A bit more on topic: Honestly, there will always be room for improvement. The only way I see no more room for improvement is when women have crushed gravel for the sound of there voice with super-musculer bodies and men have over sized body parts to make them oversexualized. Saints row the Third helped with the latter of the two.
Edit: Oh, yeah. I forgot. That Miranda picture is an camera angle that hardly happens. When it does, it also happens to Jacob( not sure if that's the right name) and some other characters male and female also, what people are saying about Miranda's "cat suit" I can say about almost every male's shirt. I mean, they look like if they move too much they'll tear the shirt. Not saying its ok, just if we're going to talk sexualized clothes lets talk about all of it not just some of it.