Poll: Videogames and Women

[Ceil-Sama]

There's nothing inherently wrong with male orientated games. If you're a fan of fighting games, Soul Calibur has more than just Ivy's tits going for them (Of course, what turned me away from the series as if it were the plague was watching my brother make loli after highschool girl in the character creation but I assume that most people don't have this problem.) The portrayal of women in these sort of games isn't that bad in itself, so I don't think that it requires that big of a fuss. Characters are characters and if designers want to make big breasted women in their games, that's up to them. In many games, there are other women to counteract these ones. For every Ivy, there is a Xianghua or Taki. Where you have Miranda, there's Tali, Ashley, ect ect ect.

Yea, of course there is room for improvement. This is a medium that is still being developed, like movies, books, and all sorts. Sometimes there are steps back, but there's nothing wrong with sexuality in gaming, no matter what some newsgroups or political parties might say. I will, however, keep my fingers crossed for posters that focus on male character's dongs or glistening muscles, just to see male gamer's reactions to them. Maybe it'll be on par with female reactions to Soul Calibur posters.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Yea, of course there is room for improvement. This is a medium that is still being developed, like movies, books, and all sorts. Sometimes there are steps back, but there's nothing wrong with sexuality in gaming, no matter what some newsgroups or political parties might say. I will, however, keep my fingers crossed for posters that focus on male character's dongs or glistening muscles, just to see male gamer's reactions to them. Maybe it'll be on par with female reactions to Soul Calibur posters.

They would probably react a lot worse, and it would be hilarious.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

room for improvement definitely.

granted i'm not a woman, so can't quite judge as closely, but it can get a bit "over the top" with them trying to sell it in games sometimes.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

But you didn't answer my question. Is male oriented entertainment wrong? Should such a thing be suppressed and censored? The op implies there is something wrong with the three games from the pictures. I just don't get what it is.

The games industry used to be 90% male but that changed a long time ago. Devs need to realize that and make games with different demographics in mind and gamers need to stop trying to censor games.

There's a significant difference between criticism and "censorship."

As for "male-oriented entertainment," that depends on whether or not your definition of "male-oriented" is "treats the viewer like a lonely and slightly clueless adolescent boy." In which case, don't you think that's kind of condescending on the companies' part?

But as I've stated before: my issue is more with the behavior of fans than with the games themselves. Now, to some degree, it's a vicious cycle; the good old "sex sells" excuse. But as far as I'm concerned, if some fanboy starts making lewd emotes at my mage, it's not Blizzard's fault for designing female draenei. It's that fanboy's fault for being a trashy little douche.

I like how only one or two people in this thread touch on the fact this makes the male gamers like idiots that buy games because of a pair of big boobs in the games. The thing is the oversexualization of female characters in games looks bad on both genders.

See above: I wholeheartedly agree.

They would probably react a lot worse, and it would be hilarious.

See: people insisting that male castanics in TERA are just as skeevy as their sisters, freak-outs over that emo elf in Dragon Age, the response to the Alex Ross Superman cover...

 

[Riki Darnell]

As a female I actually don't mind how women are portrayed in games. I understand the argument but if cosmetic appearance doesn't effect gameplay, then the developers should have the freedom to make the characters look how they want. I really enjoyed Bayonetta but part of that was because of how she came across. In fact, my favorite thing, after I beat the game, was unlocking all the different costumes for her like she was a doll. (I'm straight btw so this isn't about having a girl crush lol)

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I don't see a lot of women given respect in games.Samus Aran is portrayed just right. Well, maybe not in "Other M", but you know what I'm talking about. Joana Dark, Chun Li, Alyx Vance, Elena Fisher, and Sarah Kerrigan are done well. "Tomb Raider", "Resident Evil", and "Mass Effect" do okay, but lose points for all the focus on T&A.

Personally, I think Rift does a good job. Say what you like about the armor (there are some plate bikinis); but it's got some standouts like Asha Catari and Dacia Ultan, characterization-wise.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

But you didn't answer my question. Is male oriented entertainment wrong? Should such a thing be suppressed and censored? The op implies there is something wrong with the three games from the pictures. I just don't get what it is.

The games industry used to be 90% male but that changed a long time ago. Devs need to realize that and make games with different demographics in mind and gamers need to stop trying to censor games.

There's a significant difference between criticism and "censorship."

As for "male-oriented entertainment," that depends on whether or not your definition of "male-oriented" is "treats the viewer like a lonely and slightly clueless adolescent boy." In which case, don't you think that's kind of condescending on the companies' part?

but how does mass effect or soul caliber treat you like a lonely adolescent? Is that the only sort of male who appreciates sex appeal in games? Because an adult with a girlfriend will never appreciate the sex appeal in a game like mass effect or soul caliber?

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

but how does mass effect or soul caliber treat you like a lonely adolescent? Is that the only sort of male who appreciates sex appeal in games? Because an adult with a girlfriend will never appreciate the sex appeal in a game like mass effect or soul caliber?

By treating the viewer like someone who needs to drool over pixels. Or, in some cases, has an odd idea of what "sexy ladies" actually look like (not saying any of those games, in particular, fall into the uncanny valley...but I've seen some).

And "sex appeal" is pretty subjective. Some people complained that the new Lara Croft "wasn't hawt any longer," others said that she was better-looking than ever. Additionally, characters can be sexy without making a show of it.

 

[Astoria]

I'm a girl and I'm insulted by it exactly, I just think it's a little pathetic. Do developers really really feel the need for their female characters to be sexy? If it has something to do with their personality that's different but if it's just for the hell of it then, really? And the whole sex sells thing I think its both lazy and insulting. Not all guys are ruled by their dicks you know, they are capable of seeing boobs and having rational thoughts at the same time. And by going with sex appeal they're basically saying 'we can't be bothered thinking of a way to make you want to buy this so here have some boobs'.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

but how does mass effect or soul caliber treat you like a lonely adolescent? Is that the only sort of male who appreciates sex appeal in games? Because an adult with a girlfriend will never appreciate the sex appeal in a game like mass effect or soul caliber?

Better question: why does the primary purpose of female characters in these games seem to be "sex appeal," why do people get so defensive whenever someone questions this, and why is any "sex appeal" on male characters greeted with shrieks about "gay porn" from fanboys?

Most people don't get defensive about it. I'm the only one debating with you here. most people seem to take your view on the Internet.. I just think its unfair that people want to tell game makers how to make their games. Sexuality is part of human nature and part of everyone's fantasies in their own minds, so why can't we put it in our fantastical games? You may call it criticism but I still feel like what you want is to make them change the way they make their games.

There was an article on this site a while ago about a rising trend in Japan of female orientated games. Can't remember what it was called, there was always a strong female protagonst in these games who got to choose who to romance from a group of physically perfect men during the course of whatever adventure she was on. Id like to see games like that take off In the west. Let the girls have their games, the guys theirs and everything in between. So there's that to critiscize the games industry with. Not enough balance in the industry, but I still don't think it's fair to take one of these games and say they are wrong for their sex appeal. Or judge people who do like the appeal.

Anyway Miranda's purpose behind being sexy in mass effect is that she has actually been genetically engineered to be 'perfect' by her rich father in the womb iirc. Both physically and mentally, and she sort of hates that he did that to her.Also you can have romance the men in it anyway.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I'm a girl and I'm insulted by it exactly, I just think it's a little pathetic. Do developers really really feel the need for their female characters to be sexy? If it has something to do with their personality that's different but if it's just for the hell of it then, really? And the whole sex sells thing I think its both lazy and insulting. Not all guys are ruled by their dicks you know, they are capable of seeing boobs and having rational thoughts at the same time. And by going with sex appeal they're basically saying 'we can't be bothered thinking of a way to make you want to buy this so here have some boobs'.

Still say that "Big Picture" said it best: it's the homogeneity that gets irritating. In a lot of games, you can tell a lot about the male characters by just looking at a still image. The female characters? "She's hawt, and she's striking a pose."

...this is why I want to go back to school, really.

Most people don't get defensive about it. I'm the only one debating with you here.

That's why I changed the post.

I just think its unfair that people want to tell game makers how to make their games.

Even if that were the case: what's "unfair" about it? The market is more than one demographic.

Sexuality is part of human nature and part of everyone's fantasies in their own minds, so why can't we put it in our fantastical games?

Fair enough. So why cater to only one particular market, then?

You may call it criticism but I still feel like what you want is to make them change the way they make their games.

It is criticism. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but that's really on you.

There was an article on this site a while ago about a rising trend in Japan of female orientated games. Can't remember what it was called, there was always a strong female protagonst in these games who got to choose who to romance from a group of physically perfect men during the course of whatever adventure she was on. Id like to see games like that take off In the west. Let the girls have their games, the guys theirs and everything in between. So there's that to critiscize the games industry with.

Ah-ah-ah! You're still falling into the "games are for boys" trap.

And your suggestion of dating sims is actually a bit insulting.

Not enough balance in the industry, but I still don't think it's fair to take one of these games and say they are wrong for their sex appeal. Or judge people who do like the appeal.

My bingo card is getting a workout here [http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/?p=4#14]...

Anyway Miranda's purpose behind being sexy in mass effect is that she has actually been genetically engineered to be 'perfect' by her rich father in the womb iirc. Both physically and mentally, and she sort of hates that he did that to her.Also you can have romance the men in it anyway.

I know about Mass Effect. I wasn't talking about Mass Effect.

 

[Dragonpit]

Have any of you seen what MovieBob had to say on the matter in one of his vids? I think he puts it better than anyone else. It's not so much the fact that sexy women are portrayed, but how they are portrayed. It mainly has to do with the body language of the characters in the media outside the initial games. The video's called "Gender Games", so look it up.

 

[Popeman]

It will stop when sex stops selling. IE never.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Have any of you seen what MovieBob had to say on the matter in one of his vids? I think he puts it better than anyone else. It's not so much the fact that sexy women are portrayed, but how they are portrayed. It mainly has to do with the body language of the characters in the media outside the initial games. The video's called "Gender Games", so look it up.

Yeah, I actually mentioned it a couple of times.

To clarify further: it's not that there are sexy ladies. It's that the sexy ladies are always striking a pose or putting on a show for the audience rather than actually being, you know, characters.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I'm a girl and I'm insulted by it exactly, I just think it's a little pathetic. Do developers really really feel the need for their female characters to be sexy? If it has something to do with their personality that's different but if it's just for the hell of it then, really? And the whole sex sells thing I think its both lazy and insulting. Not all guys are ruled by their dicks you know, they are capable of seeing boobs and having rational thoughts at the same time. And by going with sex appeal they're basically saying 'we can't be bothered thinking of a way to make you want to buy this so here have some boobs'.

Still say that "Big Picture" said it best: it's the homogeneity that gets irritating. In a lot of games, you can tell a lot about the male characters by just looking at a still image. The female characters? "She's hawt, and she's striking a pose."

...this is why I want to go back to school, really.

Most people don't get defensive about it. I'm the only one debating with you here.

That's why I changed the post.

I just think its unfair that people want to tell game makers how to make their games.

Even if that were the case: what's "unfair" about it? The market is more than one demographic.

Sexuality is part of human nature and part of everyone's fantasies in their own minds, so why can't we put it in our fantastical games?

Fair enough. So why cater to only one particular market, then?

You may call it criticism but I still feel like what you want is to make them change the way they make their games.

It is criticism. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but that's really on you.

There was an article on this site a while ago about a rising trend in Japan of female orientated games. Can't remember what it was called, there was always a strong female protagonst in these games who got to choose who to romance from a group of physically perfect men during the course of whatever adventure she was on. Id like to see games like that take off In the west. Let the girls have their games, the guys theirs and everything in between. So there's that to critiscize the games industry with.

Ah-ah-ah! You're still falling into the "games are for boys" trap.

And your suggestion of dating sims is actually a bit insulting.

Not enough balance in the industry, but I still don't think it's fair to take one of these games and say they are wrong for their sex appeal. Or judge people who do like the appeal.

My bingo card is getting a workout here [http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/?p=4#14]...

Anyway Miranda's purpose behind being sexy in mass effect is that she has actually been genetically engineered to be 'perfect' by her rich father in the womb iirc. Both physically and mentally, and she sort of hates that he did that to her.Also you can have romance the men in it anyway.

I know about Mass Effect. I wasn't talking about Mass Effect.

Fair enough about mass effect. And im sorry I insulted you with the dating sim thing, except I didnt really mean dating sims, more games with romantic elements. But I really dont want to offend you.

I agree with you though, I dont think they should cater to one market, but theres nothing wrong with the ones that currently exist that cater to men. Its just a lacking in other games that should exist.

I still wonder. Is it wrong to have games for boys? We allow movies, magazines, books and television shows obviously aimed at women to exist and nobody complains. Are those wrong? Why is it wrong to have a game aimed at a demographic? Its not like they are stopping someone from playing it because of their gender.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I still wonder. Is it wrong to have games for boys? We allow movies, magazines, books and television shows obviously aimed at women to exist and nobody complains. Are those wrong? Why is it wrong to have a game aimed at a demographic? Its not like they are stopping someone from playing it because of their gender.

Gendered marketing as a whole strikes me as kind of insulting, to tell the truth. I'm not sure if you saw me expressing contempt for Twilight, Lifetime, and the "shrink it and pink it" mentality up-thread, but...that's this culture's idea of marketing things to women.

If I had to choose between that and...well, mainstream games minus any pretense of marketing them to anyone but teenage boys with weird ideas about women? I think I'd become entirely disgusted with the hobby.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I still wonder. Is it wrong to have games for boys? We allow movies, magazines, books and television shows obviously aimed at women to exist and nobody complains. Are those wrong? Why is it wrong to have a game aimed at a demographic? Its not like they are stopping someone from playing it because of their gender.

Gendered marketing as a whole strikes me as kind of insulting, to tell the truth. I'm not sure if you saw me expressing contempt for Twilight, Lifetime, and the "shrink it and pink it" mentality up-thread, but...that's this culture's idea of marketing things to women.

Yeah, the female stuff in nerd culture pretty sad. But I just dont want to see everything whitewashed into gender neutrality and political correctness. A game like bulletstorm would probably never be made for fear of offense. It did offend, remember it being accused of causing rape by fox news?

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Yeah, the female stuff in nerd culture pretty sad. But I just dont want to see everything whitewashed into gender neutrality and political correctness.

...tell me you did not just trot out the old buzzword that almost invariably means "but I don't want to be considerate!"

A game like bulletstorm would probably never be made for fear of offense. It did offend, remember it being accused of causing rape by fox news?

That's because Fox News is a ridiculous den of scandalmongers.

*snip!*

Those guys are idealized (in different ways), true; but they're clearly presented as heroic figures rather than as bland and rather passive eye candy. (I know where there's an image diagram illustrating the difference; however, I'm not sure how appropriate it is.)

 

[Mr. In-between]

I'd like to see a gaming heroine with small boobs and hairy pits. I think that would really throw people for a loop.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Spoiler: Deodorant commercial

Spoiler: Shoe commercial

Spoiler: Photo camera commercial

Spoiler: Jeans commercial

Spoiler: Commercial for Fries

I hope you get the point from those few "samples", or rather welcome to the world we live in There's nothing wrong with video games doing the same as everyone else and if you want to "change" anything about it you probably have to go a lot deeper than that. Personally I have nothing against boobs or ass as I feel attracted to them, I won't base my buying decision on that, but there it is...

On the other hand we also have

Spoiler: Resident Evil

Spoiler: Final Fantasy

Spoiler: God of War

Spoiler: Street Fighter

etc. which are "sexualized" in their own way and there's enough actual commercials with half-naked men on them too out there, I see nothing "wrong" with either.

And btw.

Spoiler: Mass Effect

got Yvonne Strahovski to represent Miranda, but they also got Mark Vanderloo (a male model) to be stand-in for Shepard.

"but but...other people are doing it too" isn't really valid justification, when video games do it worse.

And look at the men you posted. Large and ripped, effeminate and coifed, fat, thin, tall, lots of body shapes. While nearly all women are two grapefruits on a stick.

And like Lolatea said, there's a huge HUGE difference between sexualising men in a "I'm gonna kick your goddamn arse" way and the way women are portrayed as literal objects.