Poll: was israel right for Attacking Gaza
- Thread starter lior13
- Start date
dnaloiram said:
No, it's not, it's a flamewar waiting to happen. We've already established that both sides are in the wrong, and that the true suffering is being born by the innocents of both Israel and Palestine. The only room for debate is who is more in the wrong here, the IDF or HAMAS, and that's a matter of semantics unworthy of consideration. In short, it's an invitation for people to flame and pissing on one another.
You're not helping you know. If people manage to keep this discussion civil we'll leave it up. That isn't for you to decide or 'call' ahead of time. If you think people are flaming hit that lovely red report button. Otherwise, add something to the discussion, or don't post at all.Rolling Thunder said:
The majority of the land pf Israel was taken during the war of independence, the UN plan only gave them half they took it all. Afterwards they passed a law against Palestinians returning. If compensation was offered, how were they going to collect it? Israel had long refused to listen to the UN resolutions saying to let them return. Quoting wiki:Borrowed Time said:
'They wanted to return to what were their homes prior to the Arab-Israeli War, looking for their lost loved ones, harvesting crops from fields that were confiscated'
Granted, most settlements before the war were legitimate, but most of the land of Israel is the spoils of war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Infiltration_law
Israel was never meant to be this big. Yes, some of Palestine was sold. The Israelis then proceeded to land-grab as much as they could, citing various reasons from religion to defence. They've slowed down now, and built a big fricken wall around the Palestinians. What are they meant to do? Let them take it?lostclause said:
You own a field. You sell a corner to some campers. The campers invite their friends until eventually they occupy the entire field and build a barbed wire fence around your now measly scap of worthless dirt. You've got a sea to your back, and armed guards to your front. on your land. What do you do?
This does not come down to anti-Semitism. It comes down to a load of people taking more than their agreed share. They could be Christians or atheists for all I care.
There is no point arguing over the acts of war, as these things always occur and get worse and worse and worse. When it comes down to it, and you remove the conflict from the equation, Israel is in the wrong. The only defence they seem to be able to cite is that they're somehow 'entitled' to it, and the Palestinians fired first. Well fuck me, do you blame them?
Personally I think that both governments are making arses of themselves, and civilians from both sides are getting caught in the crossfire.
Israel's wrong for trying to expand as much as it has done and for their blunt and brutal use of force. Palestine is wrong for not accepting that the nation of Israel actually exists.
If forced to choose a side, I would be with Palestine because a) more of their civilians have died than Israel's last time I checked (a bit ago, so may not still be acturate), so they seem a bit more like the victims, b) I feel that the Zionist belief of them being God's chosen people, and therefore having rights that others do not, is a bit too much like the Nazi idea of a "master race" to be acceptable, and c) I don't approve of many of the things the Isreali government did in its earlier years. As I said, that was only if I were forced to chose, I'd much rather some other nation just said words to the effect of "learn to share or we nuke both of you!".
Israel's wrong for trying to expand as much as it has done and for their blunt and brutal use of force. Palestine is wrong for not accepting that the nation of Israel actually exists.
If forced to choose a side, I would be with Palestine because a) more of their civilians have died than Israel's last time I checked (a bit ago, so may not still be acturate), so they seem a bit more like the victims, b) I feel that the Zionist belief of them being God's chosen people, and therefore having rights that others do not, is a bit too much like the Nazi idea of a "master race" to be acceptable, and c) I don't approve of many of the things the Isreali government did in its earlier years. As I said, that was only if I were forced to chose, I'd much rather some other nation just said words to the effect of "learn to share or we nuke both of you!".
All I can Say is that its irony sick twisted irony .
*cough* Warsaw ghetto *cough* also isreal did not exist and if the
jews never went threw genocide the west would have nevered gave a pity
party and create a illegal state. If some Middle east nations would band
together like Iran , Iraq , syria and others to work together (They Need that many
cause isreal may have nukes ) Or maybe Russia can just come in and wipe them off the
face of Terra (Im not a Nazi and im related to a Jews)
*cough* Warsaw ghetto *cough* also isreal did not exist and if the
jews never went threw genocide the west would have nevered gave a pity
party and create a illegal state. If some Middle east nations would band
together like Iran , Iraq , syria and others to work together (They Need that many
cause isreal may have nukes ) Or maybe Russia can just come in and wipe them off the
face of Terra (Im not a Nazi and im related to a Jews)
One of my many problems with Israel is the definition of its government:nekolux said:
- It's democratic, since people can vote
- It's theocratic, since it defines itself as "jewish state"
- It's fascist, since they believe in the "superiority of the jewish people"
- It's a system of apartheid due to the segregation of jewish and non-jewish, especially arab, people
It's so much and yet it's very hard to put a finger on one specific aspect.
One sidenote on the "free press":
Norman Finkelstein [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein#Denied_entry_to_Israel_in_2008]. An american author, descendant of european jews who survived the warsaw ghetto and Auschwitz/Majdanek (father/mother), was denied entry to Israel after he accused people like Eli Wiesel, Binjamin Wilkomirski and others of fraud and hypocrasy concerning holocaust-reparations.
Nope, Isreal shouldn't exist where it is, it should be located somehwere in east Germany around the Polish border.
As it is various politicians and religious leaders used the Nazis actions as an excuse to continue a centuries old religious conflict. Between violently turning on the UN soldiers there to protect them, bombing the living shit out of Lebanon and turning Palestine (the bits of it they didn't steal) into a massive ghetto whilst they slowly starve and kill it's population, they've managed to prove themselves as little better than the Nazis they were rescued from.
Which is quite an achievement if you think about it.
I have never understood the logic of condemning all of Palestine to a slow violent extinction because of the actions of Germans. No doubt it's an unpopular view but I think Isreal needs to be abandoned by America and promptly wiped off the map. They've spent they last 50 years diligently earning it.
As it is various politicians and religious leaders used the Nazis actions as an excuse to continue a centuries old religious conflict. Between violently turning on the UN soldiers there to protect them, bombing the living shit out of Lebanon and turning Palestine (the bits of it they didn't steal) into a massive ghetto whilst they slowly starve and kill it's population, they've managed to prove themselves as little better than the Nazis they were rescued from.
Which is quite an achievement if you think about it.
I have never understood the logic of condemning all of Palestine to a slow violent extinction because of the actions of Germans. No doubt it's an unpopular view but I think Isreal needs to be abandoned by America and promptly wiped off the map. They've spent they last 50 years diligently earning it.
Exactly, "most settlements before the war were legitimate", yet Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria attacked Israel. Granted, denying individuals the ability to go home after the war was wrong, they also feared retaliation from the arabs. They were attacked on almost all sides. >_< Yeah, I'd be grabbing land too honestly.lostclause said:
"fascist" doesn't mean "oppressive". Fascism is a system of government which Israel clearly does not subscribe to.Specter_ said:
Palestine became a British mandate after World War One. Before this time, there had been a significant minority Jewish population living there. Jewish immigration was already ballooning before the Holocaust, but that event gave Jewish immigration much more impetus. After World War Two, Britain could no longer maintain military forces in the region and decided to end the mandate. The U.N. came up with a two-state solution which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by Arab leaders. despite the lack of a clear transition plan, Britain left and Israel declared independence. The surrounding Arab nations invaded, and when the dust settled, Israel had established its pre-1967 borders.nyaman said:
