Poll: What percentage of people are LGBT?

[poundingmetal74]

I'm legitimately surprised by the current polls results. Mainly, I'm surprised that it's that high. I've heard most estimates put the total LGBT population at about 5-10%...

I would argue it's probably due to the Escapist being a fairly LGBT-friendly site, and members of this community are possibly more likely to be attracted by the thread title and pop in to vote.

 

[Something Amyss]

You know, one thing that kind of gets me on this site is how a lot of people jump into ongoing conversations without bothering to read what was already said. I believe I already covered this with Vault101.

Actually, I read quite a bit of the chain between you and her. Unfortunately, that didn't particularly help you any. You keep claiming that your free speech is being censored and violated due to things happening on this website. If you're not claiming any rights with respect to this website, then there's no issue at play.

Let me be brutally honest, if there are "consequences" for free speech then it's not free speech.

Then by its definition, free speech is impossible.

Face it, you might disagree with me and find what I say is repugnant, but what is going on is morally and ethically wrong.

Only if you think you have free speech on this site does this argument work in any sense. But you just said you never claimed that. So you have no basis here. And yet, when people address you on this, you pull the "why didn't you read what I said?" card.

What's more coming from liberals who fought the battles they did to get this far it's also totally hypocritical, representing arguments about the right of everyone to speak, until a degree of power is achieved and it becomes inconvenient.

When did liberals fight for the right to accuse others of being pedophiles? Or for the right of gays to say whatever they wanted on private websites?

If they didn't, then there's no hypocrisy at play.

 

[Something Amyss]

Both sides go on the defensive, nobody listens to anybody else, conversation is not had and no one comes out the wiser.

Part of the problem here is that the people who hold all the power tend to demand a higher standard from the rest. To borrow a line from Queer as Folk (US version, at least), "we have to be better." It's immensely frustrating to be forced to walk a tightrope where people can scream at and deride you all day long but will take umbrage at even the slightest of perceived insults. Not that "cis-scum" is particularly a "perceived" insult.

People often place equal responsibility on "both sides," even when there's a huge power disparity.

 

[-Dragmire-]

I am straight and I have a couple gay family members.

EDIT:

Yikes, things look like they got quite heated!

 

[Vault101]

Actually, apart from one person, I don't know anyone who would fit, as I've been mostly avoiding LGBT (as in, the group, organization), due to some bad experiences with them.

what happned?

[quote/]Then again, as seen above, I haven't met many non-heterosexual people, or at least, many people who has mentioned it in a conversation, as I don't find it very relevant to most conversations. I don't have any special dislike or like for LGBT, but I don't see any reason to identify with a group of people based on something I find to be a private thing, a position that seems to get me into trouble if I mention it, so perhaps I shouldn't have. >_>[/quote]
well it makes perfect sense *in theory* but real life didn't turn out that way

because it CAN'T be private unless you want to make a concentrated effort to hide it, and who wants to do that? that also doesn't mean you run down the street with a rainbow cape flowing out behind you screaming "I'M GAY I'M GAAAAAAAY" to the tune of the four seasons...its as innocuous as identifying the gender of your girlfriend/boyfriend or expressing causal interest in somone

so when a group of people are unfairly discriminated against for an inherent (and harmless) trait then of coarse they band together and campagn for their rights, or form communities because they [I/]have[/I] too

of coarse in doing all this its easy to forget they are people who aside from one shared experience are subject to all the differences (and potential to be assholes) as everyone else, but as Zach said sometimes the need to be "better" is annoyingly present in the background because weather from within our outside there's that voice still hung up on "teh gay"

 

[Matthewmagic]

10% is what I heard a long time ago. It comes from Kinsey but to be honest I have no idea how accurate that is.

I am gay, and I have a few gay friends. We don't hang out much because shared interest is well... lacking.

That isn't to say I don't know gay nerds I know a few and they are great. I get away without saying anything and I usually don't bring up my sexual preference until someone knows me pretty well. I kind of mark it as "none of your business".

That being said I despise the LBGT movement. It has the right motivation but an eye rolling attempt at execution. If you dress in a thong and run around like a sexual deviant do not be surprised when grandma and grandpa think you are a sexual deviants.

That being said I can not argue with the results. In the united states right now every state law banning gay marriage is a lawsuit from being overturned. Thank you prop 8.

They get more upset over laws that are a simple lawsuit away from being gone forever than the atrocious representation we get in the media. Shallow characters whose every personality trait is somehow tied to them being gay. It is maddening.

 

[Vault101]

That being said I despise the LBGT movement. It has the right motivation but an eye rolling attempt at execution. If you dress in a thong and run around like a sexual deviant do not be surprised when grandma and grandpa think you are a sexual deviants.
.

and why exactly should we be following grandma and grandpa's standards of sexual deviancy?

 

[Matthewmagic]

That being said I despise the LBGT movement. It has the right motivation but an eye rolling attempt at execution. If you dress in a thong and run around like a sexual deviant do not be surprised when grandma and grandpa think you are a sexual deviants.
.

and why exactly should we be following grandma and grandpa's standards of sexual deviancy?

We shouldn't we should work to change their perception of us instead of reinforcing the negative perception they already have.

 

[Vault101]

We shouldn't we should work to change their perception of us instead of reinforcing the negative perception they already have.

yes and no

I mean what makes it negative? exactly? that it doesn't fit into their ideas of how men and women are supposed to be? stereotypes can suck, yes but contributing to society disdain for what we think of "feminine" sucks too

[I/]yeah I'm gay but I'm not one of the BAD ones, I'm a straight up dude bro just like you![/I] <-I mean would you really want to pander to that?

yes asking people to re-think the gender roles they've been taught their entire lives MIGHT be a bit to much to ask but I just find it a little hard to criticise people for expressing themselves

 

[Matthewmagic]

yes and no

I mean what makes it negative? exactly? that it doesn't fit into their ideas of how men and women are supposed to be? stereotypes can suck, yes but contributing to society disdain for what we think of "feminine" sucks too

[I/]yeah I'm gay but I'm not one of the BAD ones, I'm a straight up dude bro just like you![/I] <-I mean would you really want to pander to that?

yes asking people to re-think the gender roles they've been taught their entire lives MIGHT be a bit to much to ask but I just find it a little hard to criticise people for expressing themselves

Negativity is a perception and yes promiscuity is viewed negatively. Asking people to conduct themselves in "respectable" ways if they plan to lead a movement is common sense.

Or to put it more plainly This:

Gets a different response from people than this:

I don't think it is an awful lot to ask that people don't run around the streets in their underwear. I think that falls under "Bare minimum" in american society.

The girly guys can be as girly as they want. I'm not asking people to change their personalities I'm asking them to think strategically about what they want, and realize they need respect to get it. The whole set up of the pride parade makes us all look bad because that is the image conjured up by the popular conscious when one reveals they identify as gay or lesbian. It is our biggest weakness and we create it for no good reason.

 

[Vault101]

snip

I don't have much experience with pride parades but I'm assuming they are a specific place to "go all out" as it were, the guy in the top picture doesn't wear that outfit to work I imagine

 

[Jesterscup]

About how many of your friends and family do you know to be LGBT?
How tolerant are people of LGBT people where you're from?

This gets a little complicated for me. I'm pretty much 'out' in one way or another to everybody. That being said, while I'm open & honest I also don't advertise my status, This lead to situations where some people make one assumption and others make another, particularly in regards to my perceived sexuality and/or perceived promiscuity. Actually I'd class myself as a pan-sexual ( bisexual if you wish) transvestite/Drag-Queen.


Generally people are tolerant ( in Edinburgh, Scotland) however it's trickier with people I knew 'before' I came out or work colleagues. Friends and family are the worst, while often respectful of others ( or at least willing to bite their tongues) they seems to think it's acceptable to be derogatory to me, simply on the basis that I now choose to present myself on occasion jars with how they view me.

 

[Jesterscup]

The girly guys can be as girly as they want. I'm not asking people to change their personalities I'm asking them to think strategically about what they want, and realize they need respect to get it. The whole set up of the pride parade makes us all look bad because that is the image conjured up by the popular conscious when one reveals they identify as gay or lesbian. It is our biggest weakness and we create it for no good reason.

I'm going to take issue with this, so it's ok for someone to lisp and behave in an overly camp manner, yet dressing in a style thats outside of the norm isn't? I don't wear my performance outfits to work ( and I never lisp nor camp ) but I spend a great deal of time, money and effort to look the way I wish to when I perform. I could argue that it's important for people to dress outside of the social norms, in order to breakdown those barriers, whereas you're asking me to hide behind them. I people don't respect me because of my choice of clothing then that is an issue they have, not me.


captcha: wild and crazy guys

 

[DarkRawen]

Actually, apart from one person, I don't know anyone who would fit, as I've been mostly avoiding LGBT (as in, the group, organization), due to some bad experiences with them.

what happned?

Mostly people, both on the escapist and other places, including forums of theirs, telling me off for not agreeing with them, implying that I'm somehow a "traitor" for being in this kind of situation and not wanting to tell everyone about it. It's just tiresome, because doing that sort of thing makes it seem like I have an obligation to "other bisexuals and trans-people" which is unfair. I identify no more as part of the "trans-people" or "bisexuals" than I identify as blonde, and while I understand that other people do and why, I just don't.

Then again, as seen above, I haven't met many non-heterosexual people, or at least, many people who has mentioned it in a conversation, as I don't find it very relevant to most conversations. I don't have any special dislike or like for LGBT, but I don't see any reason to identify with a group of people based on something I find to be a private thing, a position that seems to get me into trouble if I mention it, so perhaps I shouldn't have. >_>

well it makes perfect sense *in theory* but real life didn't turn out that way

because it CAN'T be private unless you want to make a concentrated effort to hide it, and who wants to do that? that also doesn't mean you run down the street with a rainbow cape flowing out behind you screaming "I'M GAY I'M GAAAAAAAY" to the tune of the four seasons...its as innocuous as identifying the gender of your girlfriend/boyfriend or expressing causal interest in somone

so when a group of people are unfairly discriminated against for an inherent (and harmless) trait then of coarse they band together and campagn for their rights, or form communities because they [I/]have[/I] too

of coarse in doing all this its easy to forget they are people who aside from one shared experience are subject to all the differences (and potential to be assholes) as everyone else, but as Zach said sometimes the need to be "better" is annoyingly present in the background because weather from within our outside there's that voice still hung up on "teh gay"

I certainly don't make an effort hiding it beyond avoiding the organizations, and I've never had an issue with that kind of thing. Then again, I have my rights, and I honestly have no intention of sharing it with strangers. As for "expressing casual interest" in someone, I've given up romance for the time being. I'd like to know whether or not I'll be approved of the transformation thing before I decide what to do about that sorta thing, as I've already made the decision of just accepting that I'm physically female if I can't change as much as possible.

So actually, it can be private for me, because my situation and mindset allows for it. I do understand that not everyone else can, but that's been my experience. And in the end, I speak only for myself. Besides, I've had a lot of people trying to tell me how I should deal with it, determine what my experience around it should be, and what I should take offence at. And that's only making me less inclined to even talk to the local LGBT group.

So, shortly put: people don't experience things differently, and not everyone has the need to bond with people in the same situation or who are similar to them. Call it narcissism or selfishness (or a lack of empathy, as some have), but I don't see a reason to potentially put myself in an awkward position by being forced to identify as a member of a group.

 

[Jesterscup]

Mostly people, both on the escapist and other places, including forums of theirs, telling me off for not agreeing with them, implying that I'm somehow a "traitor" for being in this kind of situation and not wanting to tell everyone about it. It's just tiresome, because doing that sort of thing makes it seem like I have an obligation to "other bisexuals and trans-people" which is unfair. I identify no more as part of the "trans-people" or "bisexuals" than I identify as blonde, and while I understand that other people do and why, I just don't.

I get what you are saying here, bunching a group of people together when they are different issues,viewpoints and causes makes no sense to me. I'm more than happy to stand up and say I support those who stand up for gay & lesbian issues, but for the most part they are not my issues. And similarly my issues and causes are often not those of the lesbian & gay community. sexuality and gender are not the same thing, and putting them together causes almost as many issues as it solves.

 

[DarkRawen]

Mostly people, both on the escapist and other places, including forums of theirs, telling me off for not agreeing with them, implying that I'm somehow a "traitor" for being in this kind of situation and not wanting to tell everyone about it. It's just tiresome, because doing that sort of thing makes it seem like I have an obligation to "other bisexuals and trans-people" which is unfair. I identify no more as part of the "trans-people" or "bisexuals" than I identify as blonde, and while I understand that other people do and why, I just don't.

I get what you are saying here, bunching a group of people together when they are different issues,viewpoints and causes makes no sense to me. I'm more than happy to stand up and say I support those who stand up for gay & lesbian issues, but for the most part they are not my issues. And similarly my issues and causes are often not those of the lesbian & gay community. sexuality and gender are not the same thing, and putting them together causes almost as many issues as it solves.

Well, that's the thing, I am bisexual and trans (I suppose I should've made it clear, but I am blonde, what I meant is that it's just another trait to me, which I realize now wasn't very clear) , my experiences are just rather different from what they seem to have experienced, so I really don't feel like we have a lot in common, and no reason to being part of a group. The fact that I have very little sense of wanting to belong to a community is probably part of it as well.

Also, I find it rather annoying when people choose to speak for a group, either they are of the group or not, and make it seem like they're all the same/in agreement/gets offended or hurt over the same things. I do agree that grouping gender identity issues and sexuality together is rather troublesome, especially since it makes it seem like people who simply have a different sexuality have any more experience with gender identity issues than a heterosexual, somehow.

 

[Jesterscup]

Well, that's the thing, I am bisexual and trans (I suppose I should've made it clear, but I am blonde, what I meant is that it's just another trait to me, which I realize now wasn't very clear) , my experiences are just rather different from what they seem to have experienced, so I really don't feel like we have a lot in common, and no reason to being part of a group. The fact that I have very little sense of wanting to belong to a community is probably part of it as well.

I was trying to voice a note in agreement, apologies if it came across differently. There is a difference between saying, hey I support you standing up for what you believe, and standing there beside them shouting just as loudly.

One thing that made me think during writing this, is just how broad the term 'trans' is, I mean it's a broad spectrum. I self-identify as trans, yet I spend my days in my birth-gender, dressing to varying degrees as the situation permits. I accept as part of my life that I'll never be female nor transition, and that my expression of my own identity is something that isn't always a positive effect on the rest of my life.

I attend no support groups, I'm not part of the community, and the only other trans people I know and interact with are those who also perform in the same arenas. when I first publicly came out, I made an effort to try and meet others, attend groups, be part of the 'scene' but frankly even within the moniker of 'trans' there is so wide a ranges of causes/reasons/issues/goals etc, and frankly I got sick of being told that 'I should do this' or 'I should do that'.

I'd like to give an example if I may. I'm not entirely defined by my gender identity, and while it's an aspect of my life, it's not all encompassing. I've accepted that in day to day life that I must present myself as male. This is my choice, and one made in full awareness of the implications. I get to be 'who' I am at other times. It's a compromise, but one I'm willing to make.
I've been told this is wrong, that I should embrace 'who' I am fully, despite the fact this would cost me my (day-job) career, and quite possibly the ability to have contact with my own children. This is life, every choice has ramifications, it's own set of compromises. I'll stand proudly beside those to travel further down the path, admire their bravery & commitment, but thats not my path, and I won't be told what my path is.

 

[Eddie the head]

Did you seriously ask me to go beyond the facts and read from people who are specifically biased on the matter?

A bias isn't inherently a bad thing. It's an inclination to think a certain way. That's really it. Based on your next statement you could say you have a bias to "hard facts and numbers." Although, I'll get into that.

My not gravitating towards only things that reinforce what I already think. My gravitating towards hard facts and numbers over scary stories and things that are "generally accepted." You haven't offered any contrary evidence. Hell, you refuse to even bother backing up your argument at all.

I mean. Well shit. I even agree the facts do support what you say. But people, everyone of us, do gravitate towards things that reinforce what we already think. It's a bias that we all have called "confirmation bias" and we all do it. And biases are good thing for the most part. I've read about people who have had brain damage and lost there "biases" they became basically non-functional. They would spend hours standing in front of a shelf trying to decide what brand of tuna to get.

I'm getting of track. The main point is being a good skeptic is about knowing that you're not. You're just as likely to interpret data that conforms to your preconceived notions as anyone else. To put it another; when we drive we all have blind spots, but a good driver is aware of them. He doesn't insist they don't exist.

 

[DarkRawen]

Well, that's the thing, I am bisexual and trans (I suppose I should've made it clear, but I am blonde, what I meant is that it's just another trait to me, which I realize now wasn't very clear) , my experiences are just rather different from what they seem to have experienced, so I really don't feel like we have a lot in common, and no reason to being part of a group. The fact that I have very little sense of wanting to belong to a community is probably part of it as well.

I was trying to voice a note in agreement, apologies if it came across differently. There is a difference between saying, hey I support you standing up for what you believe, and standing there beside them shouting just as loudly.

One thing that made me think during writing this, is just how broad the term 'trans' is, I mean it's a broad spectrum. I self-identify as trans, yet I spend my days in my birth-gender, dressing to varying degrees as the situation permits. I accept as part of my life that I'll never be female nor transition, and that my expression of my own identity is something that isn't always a positive effect on the rest of my life.

I attend no support groups, I'm not part of the community, and the only other trans people I know and interact with are those who also perform in the same arenas. when I first publicly came out, I made an effort to try and meet others, attend groups, be part of the 'scene' but frankly even within the moniker of 'trans' there is so wide a ranges of causes/reasons/issues/goals etc, and frankly I got sick of being told that 'I should do this' or 'I should do that'.

I'd like to give an example if I may. I'm not entirely defined by my gender identity, and while it's an aspect of my life, it's not all encompassing. I've accepted that in day to day life that I must present myself as male. This is my choice, and one made in full awareness of the implications. I get to be 'who' I am at other times. It's a compromise, but one I'm willing to make.
I've been told this is wrong, that I should embrace 'who' I am fully, despite the fact this would cost me my (day-job) career, and quite possibly the ability to have contact with my own children. This is life, every choice has ramifications, it's own set of compromises. I'll stand proudly beside those to travel further down the path, admire their bravery & commitment, but thats not my path, and I won't be told what my path is.

There certainly is that difference, yeah. It just seems that, with some people, not speaking up is being part of the problem.

And yeah, I can definitely agree with your reasoning. I'm at an earlier stage of life than you (to word it as best I can), being a university student and all that. And while I am working towards transition, there's the fact that it's rather strict where I'm from, to the point of there being several interviews and qualifications that you have to fit. However, while I dress somewhat like a male and speak like one, I'm also limited by the fact that I simply can't pass as a guy without any sort of treatment due to my body + voice. So I don't try to say I am one, because I've accepted that, at least for now, I'm a female officially and biologically.

So, where I am at right now is that I do want to go through with the full transformation, become as close to a guy as I can. However, if that's not possible, I'd rather live as a female than being in a state where I'm somewhere between the two. I'd still be a man mentally, but honestly, I don't see that much difference between the two when it comes to core personality, and I'd still be perceived as a woman either way.

As of now, I don't need anyone to refer to me as a guy, and I've made it very clear to my family that as long as it is more comfortable for them to refer to me as a female and their daughter and sister and all that, then they should do that. I don't mention it to strangers, and I tend to ensure that those I do tell won't care too much about it/won't put much emphasis on it. Apparently, that's hiding.

But yeah, I understand your position. I also present myself as my perceived gender(female), and if I was in your situation, I'd probably do something similar. It's only because I am in this stage of life that I'm trying to get the operations and official status.

 

[Verlander]

I'd imagine that the "B" really weighs down this poll.