Poll: What's the point of loot in RPGs?

[Spectrum_Prez]

Only minorly flawed, and that's the reason for an analogy. You're still heading for a clear goal that nets you an award that makes minimal distinction to others but means something to you.

If I want to get the "Inferno" badge, I'm going to have to have multiple attempts before one of my threads will "drop" a badge.

There's still a significant difference there. In the case of this "inferno" badge that you speak of, you can make many attempts and fail a considerable amount, but once you achieve the feat the award is predetermined and expected. In a game, it similarly might take many attempts to achieve a certain feat (e.g. beating a boss) but once you do achieve that feat, the reward is usually randomized (in games that are loot-focused at least).

The reason this is important is that you implied that the same motivation underpins the quest for badges on this site as the quest for loot in RPGs. When a reward is predetermined and expected, the purpose of the endeavour is different from when the reward is randomized. In my opinion, when the reward is predetermined and often publicly displayed, the motivation is a search for prestige and a sense of accomplishment. When the reward is randomized, the motivation is power and oneupsmanship. In addition, if the Escapist were to randomize badges, that might generate more traffic or page views for the same reasons games use loot to artificially extend playtime. That's why I think the minor flaw in the analogy is significant.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

That's why I think the minor flaw in the analogy is significant.

I agree with what you're saying, but if we were to have loot drop for achievements, we'd have the same affect as badges. The randomization is to actively prolong the length, but it's the idea of a BADGE that drives us on.

Loot can use a lot of tables for drops, but it's the idea of something shiny to hang to our avatar that keeps us collecting.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

Is this question for real
Thats like asking why are we getting payed for working in real life.

Money gives you sense of achievement. makes you feel good cuz you are getting richer and richer.
Helps you gear up and everybody loves the sight of a new uber sword after 2 days of playing a game.
And i have played a mmo that actually uses money for everything. I think that game was the closest thing to ever immitate real life economy it was awesome.

But i would love if some games make a lil bit more use of money cuz sometimes im stuck with tons of gold/credits/jewels and i just scratch my head around wondering what should i do with all that treasure.

 

[Wicky_42]

do you know how hard fallout 3 would be with out loot. u would have almost no ammo and cash shortages

Thinking too limited here - with less/no loot, the rest of the game's economy would (obviously) need to be readjusted. Seriously, think for just one second.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

Is this question for real
Thats like asking why are we getting payed for working in real life.

Money gives you sense of achievement. makes you feel good cuz you are getting richer and richer.
Helps you gear up and everybody loves the sight of a new uber sword after 2 days of playing a game.
And i have played a mmo that actually uses money for everything. I think that game was the closest thing to ever immitate real life economy it was awesome.

But i would love if some games make a lil bit more use of money cuz sometimes im stuck with tons of gold/credits/jewels and i just scratch my head around wondering what should i do with all that treasure.

No, this question is very much for real. The original impetus behind this was spending a good 20 or so hours on Borderlands and getting kind of sick of the constant hunt for loot. I just get the feeling that in that game they really focused it too much on that one aspect to the detriment of the story, the level design, and general gameplay.

I certainly agree with you that money gives a sense of achievement, but I want to emphasize that money does not equal loot. Loot is randomized and unique, money is always money no matter how you get it. The loot mentality is different from a money economy in a game, the former is based on randomized drops that require constant replaying of sections in the hope that you get something awesome. Getting money in a game doesn't necessarily require that type of continuous grinding in order for it to add up eventually, although in practice many games make you grind for your dough.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

I havent played Borderlands but i do believe its a shooter game correct? We are talking about loot n cash from RPG games.
And in some RPGs the loot is trash you sell for money and you use money to get gear.

 

[Bobbovski]

I think it's optional. It depends on what kind of RPG it is.

 

[open trap]

do you know how hard fallout 3 would be with out loot. u would have almost no ammo and cash shortages

Thinking too limited here - with less/no loot, the rest of the game's economy would (obviously) need to be readjusted. Seriously, think for just one second.

It's just an example, chill

 

[Unrulyhandbag]

It's nice to get a big reward every now and then from looting but by and large you get dross that you trade in for money.

In most RPG's I end up ridiculously wealthy, so much so I don't even bother looting for much of a game. If this is the way the game ends up you may as well not bother adding loot just give quest rewards.

It would be nice if a game came along where every common item could be sold for profit or broken down to components for repairs and player crafted items.

 

[squid5580]

The problem with loot is that you eventually hit the point where you no longer need it. And you are just wasting time picking it up. That is what happened to me in Borderlands. Going for level 50 on playthrough 2 I just hit a wall where I just ignored the drops. I had awesome armor, great guns and was decimating everything with a couple smg bullets. I had more money than god and it sucked ass. I lost all incentive to kill anyone who wasn't directly in my path or a boss. Especially since I was getting literally no xp (well not quite literally I was getting 6xp per kill when I needed a few hundred thousand for the next level)

 

[Pimppeter2]

I need a reason to pillage

 

[Wicky_42]

do you know how hard fallout 3 would be with out loot. u would have almost no ammo and cash shortages

Thinking too limited here - with less/no loot, the rest of the game's economy would (obviously) need to be readjusted. Seriously, think for just one second.

It's just an example, chill

An 'example' it may be, but it's not really relevant as you're just considering removing loot from an already existing game that relies on loot, as opposed to designing rpgs to be less loot-heavy. It's like in a discussion about over use of grenades in games saying, 'do you know how hard Halo would be without grenades?!'. Sure, it pertains a little, but it's completely off the mark for developing the discussion, unlike squid5590 and Unrulyhandbag's posts, as an example.

 

[badgersprite]

Well, how would it make sense for there to not be some kind of reward? You fight a guy who has a super powerful gun/sword/bow and is kicking your ass, when you finally beat him, he doesn't drop it, and you don't earn anything.

Yeah, sometimes loot is tedious and feels like a second job, but as long as it's applied well it makes for another aspect of a good game.

 

[Wicky_42]

Well, how would it make sense for there to not be some kind of reward? You fight a guy who has a super powerful gun/sword/bow and is kicking your ass, when you finally beat him, he doesn't drop it, and you don't earn anything.

Yeah, sometimes loot is tedious and feels like a second job, but as long as it's applied well it makes for another aspect of a good game.

I fully agree with this - yeah, you beat someone with cool gear and it should drop. However, harvesting legions of minions for 'tattered leather' is pointless and basically could be replaced with a bounty per kill. Of course, I think that when you kill the guy with super-powerful gear from the example, he should drop the gear he was carrying, not random shit from an item table with chance to get powerful gun/sword/bow, a ring of fire +10, shoes of +2 running away or a rock. Otherwise, if the guy had one of those other items, why wasn't he using it? If he dropped health potions then he should have been drinking them, if he was carrying an invisibility cloak, why wasn't he invisible? etc etc

 

[ItsAPaul]

It'll be around for the "holy crap look what dropped" factor the one time a rare item drops with all useful stats for you. I do prefer for it to not be a deciding factor in progressing, but luckily the only game I play where it really does (WoW) is making it stupidly easy to gear up, to the point where skill is the only real factor anymore.

Are you sure? I didn't really think there was any skill involved in WoW, just commitment.

Commitment to what? There's no reason to log on more than once a week anymore because that's all that is needed to raid. There is no end game grind in WoW, especially after 3.3 when the easy rep grinds are being made even easier.

 

[Twad]

Loot = Ressources (money, items, food, weapons, ect). Ressources = tools the players can use to improve and keep going. Loot as reward is also a ressource. Ressource are usually finite; you dont have unlimited ammount of it, so you need to gather it constantly to stay "competitive". So you raid the dungeon both fot the ressources you might get from it (hopefully more than what it will cost you) and for the plot to go foward.

 

[Captain Pancake]

It'll be around for the "holy crap look what dropped" factor the one time a rare item drops with all useful stats for you. I do prefer for it to not be a deciding factor in progressing, but luckily the only game I play where it really does (WoW) is making it stupidly easy to gear up, to the point where skill is the only real factor anymore.

Are you sure? I didn't really think there was any skill involved in WoW, just commitment.

Commitment to what? There's no reason to log on more than once a week anymore because that's all that is needed to raid. There is no end game grind in WoW, especially after 3.3 when the easy rep grinds are being made even easier.

Well, if commitment isn't a factor then skill sure as hell isn't. All I had to do was spam sinister strike until I had a powerful eviscerate. No skill required.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Rpgs have two things going for them if they have loot, as in the basic leveling and loot system. Leveling lets you customize what skills and powers you have, as we all know and love. A loot system can be used wisely to further customize your character. An intelligent loot system gives you extra reward for defeating enemies since you loot their corpse and raid their lair. An even more intelligent loot system makes sure that you have multiple options for endgame appearance since despite all our manly killing of things, we still want to hold to some sort of aesthetic in the end. Kill good, look good.

It was one of the things that annoyed me about Morrowind but annoyed me less in Oblivion. In Morrowind, if you went through all the ridiculous trouble to get the "best" stuff that you could wear at once, pretty much none of it matched and you looked like a tool. Those that nabbed the shiny pink and yellow robe from the Archmage will know what I am talking about when it clashed horribly with the hard earned Daedric stuff and... was fucking pink and yellow.

Oblivion kinda fixed this with how they put colors and items together but still felt rather meh when you realized how limited and weak enchanting items could be as compared to what it could have been.

I was rather happy with how a lot of Dragon Age gear looked and how it encouraged sets though it still had plenty of limits in regards to creating gear though I hope we will get more options in the future and I can't really complain since I am on my fourth damn playthrough and about to start my fifth... >_> Armor had fatigue ratios to consider and you could always grab more Dex if you wanted to make something else work.

Personally I find that the best RPGs are ones that have a leveling system that doesn't punish you for style, IE multiple ways to skin a dragon and weapons are balanced, and has a loot system that fills the hoarding urge, the exploring urge, the crafting urge, and finally, the almost always understated fashion urge. Give us the option to make our aesthetic work. If we like light armor that is pink, give us leveling ability to have more dodge or magic shields, etc. If we want to be brooding badasses in dark spiked armor, then accommodate us.

In short, humans are vain creatures that love power and shiny things, so give us a system that lets us look good, kick ass, and take shit. Obviously don't overdo it or the game will fall flat. Oh, and occasionally show us boobs, we like those too.

 

[Anarien]

Loot systems don't just give you stuff to steal or unique items, they also open the door to certain game mechanics such as the ability to craft items. Crafting isn't the only one, but it can add some dimension to a game. Or, as has been mentioned, for repairs as in Fallout 3. MMOs make special use of the looting-enabling-crafting, which personally is something I look for. The Matrix Online, for example, had a crafting system I loved (whatever you looted, you could break down into code and be able to craft it afterward) MMOs are sort of a different beast though.

But the same logic can apply to single-player games in that even though story and gameplay are primary reasons to play, adding unique drops, gear, or crafted-only items can just plain add more to a game. Not necessarily something everyone will avail themselves of, but which some gamers will appreciate.

Also, some people lean more toward being natural collectors, and based on this post, I'm sure it's not surprising that I am one. I'm by no means a completist, but I enjoy amassing goods to cover my needs and to craft or trade away.

I do appreciate it when the looting is implemented to be grounded in the reality of the game, such as finding pelts on lions or guns on thugs, though this isn't 100% vital..