Poll: When did WW2 begin?

[Soviet Steve]

The Great Patriotic war began on the 22nd of June 1941. One could say that WW2 began with Poland but the little battles and skirmishes up until that point were little more than a warm up.

 

[Kristian Fischer]

World War II began on September 3rd, 1939; that was the date when Britain and France declared war on Germany.

 

[Kaytastrophe]

The start of World War II is September 1 1939. Up until the invasion of Poland most world powers in some capacity believed that peace could still be achieved. The invasion of Poland was the final straw.

 

[suitepee7]

Well I could be an utter asshat and say it started in 1918 with the treaty of Versailles, but instead I'll say that the British declaration of war was when it became a global conflict (due to British colonies getting involved).

see, why was that missing? that was one of the biggest causes for WW2, and has been argued it made another war inevitable. in place of that, i'm saying the same as the actual declaration of war.

 

[Do4600]

Still, aggression can also be manifested in diplomacy.

The question then is whether we are going to consider the political warfare that preceded "World War II" as the actual start of World War II. If we are, then I think the treaties of Versailles and Shimonoseki would qualify as political warfare. Japan, however, had designs on China probably since the Meiji restoration and the only reason Europe was able to prevent full-scale war since the 1800s was with a delicately balanced web of military alliances that became unbalanced a few years before World War I.

 

[Kakistos153]

I think the definition of the start would be "what particular action, if it hadn't happened, would have caused the war to not happen". i don't think at the time you needed to include america to call it a world war, cos, ya know. most of the world isn't in america and if we're going to require that every country be involved then we have never had a world war.

But given the above definition then the definitive act that caused world war 2 was the invasion of poland in '39 is that act. Were the other acts significant? yes, did they set the stage FOR the war? sure, but were they the definitive action that caused it? no. if it wasn't for the invasion of Poland then there would have been no world war 2.

 

[Cazza]

Precursor to war isn't war.

World War 2 started when Britain and France declared war on Germany. Quickly after that there allies joined the war turning war into a world war.

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I voted 1937... Then again you can argue that it wasn't a world war till the USA went into action, since Canada was... Canada.

Definition of world war: a war involving many large nations in all different parts of the world.

Doesn't Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, China, USSR count as many? That's all major nations that were involved before the USA. If you want to go by superpowers at the time Britain (Europe), USSR (Europe/Asia) USA (North America). 2/3 continents with superpowers were already at war. If you count their allies then 5 continents were involved. With Canada counting North America as all ready at war. I feel Canada counts.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Precursor to war isn't war.

World War 2 started when Britain and France declared war on Germany. Quickly after that there allies joined the war turning war into a world war.

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I voted 1937... Then again you can argue that it wasn't a world war till the USA went into action, since Canada was... Canada.

Definition of world war: a war involving many large nations in all different parts of the world.

Doesn't Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, China, USSR count as many? That's all major nations that were involved before the USA. If you want to go by superpowers at the time Britain (Europe), USSR (Europe/Asia) USA (North America). 2/3 continents with superpowers were already at war. If you count their allies then 5 continents were involved. With Canada counting North America as all ready at war. I feel Canada counts.

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USSR entered the war in December 1941. The Americas weren't mostly involved except for Canada, but that was borderline dominion.

 

[RedDeadFred]

tOMmorrow.
TIME OC[S AWAU!!!!!!
Seery bad spelling.
*TIME COPS AWAAAAY!!!
Anyway, I alswAYS though it was 1938/1939
Can;t quite rememeer it. Britsh by the way,

Drunk?

OT: I'd say 1939 since that's when most countries got involved.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

1939, because it's easier that way.

 

[MoreThanANoob]

1939 was the official declaration of war by the Allies.

 

[TheIronRuler]

When Poland was invaded.

Germany broke the treaty of versaille and thus the allies and Axis were at it again. Okay, Germany had violated the treaty many times within that year but it was Poland to call help from the English and French.

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If going by that logic, I think that the abandonment of Czechoslovakia in Munich was the beginning of the war.

I'm gonna have to agree with that. Although it didn't end in an armed conflict, it was supposed to be one. Bunkers were built on the borders and soldiers were ready to fire, but then they just had to let them germans pass through

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It was similar to the anschluss with Austria - they were ready to fight, but Austria's leader came to Hitler and surrendered to avoid bloodshed. Did not stop Austrian troops from marching under the flag of Nazi Germany and getting killed.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I've had a chat with some of my buddies about the beginning of WW2 - specifically, when did it begin? We all knew that September 1st, 1939 was the 'official' beginning of the war, since this is the date most historians agree upon, but I was still not convinced.

Here are the number of options for you to choose from, and my explanations:
1.1931, September 18. Mukden Incident. Japan invades Manchuria and establishes a puppet state there [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident], Manchukuo [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo]. This may seem harmless, but this is the beginning of Japanese meddling in the Chinese remains of the Qing dynasty.
2. 1937, July 7-9. Marco Polo Bridge Incident [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_Incident], which sparked the incursion of Japan into Chinese soil and the Sino-Japanese war which only ended in '45.
3. 1938, March 11 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss#1938], Annexation of Austria.
4. 1935, October [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Italo-Abyssinian_War], Italian-Ethiopian war.
5. Invasion of Poland by Germany, 1939, September 1. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland]
6. Pearl Harbor bombing. 1941, 7-8 December. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor] 8th of December had the USA officially enter the war.
7. 1938, 30 September. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement] The betrayal at Munich, where Czechoslovakia was royally screwed by its allies.

We had three dates in mind, but because I didn't want the thread to be about our discussion I also added 4 more dates to the mix. They may seem like the stepping stones towards WW2... you're probably right. Still, aggression can also be manifested in diplomacy.

here is a book that might interest you:

1939 - The War That Had Many Fathers

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mind=blown.

I read a review on a site that summarized the book.

I had not even thought of the events in that narrative. The facts do line up.

Dude. This is... Dude.

Marry me.

You're awesome.

 

[Major_Tom]

In my country the National Liberation War, as we call it, started in July 1941. The Kingdom of Yugoslavia was overrun by the Axis forces in April and the first Partisan squad was formed on 22.6. (same day the Soviet Union was invaded) but the actual fighting didn't start until July.

 

[RicoADF]

I'm going to be 'that guy' and say that 'WWII' is a misnomer... the first 'world war' was the Seven Years' War (which lasted nine years... -_- 1754-1763).

Anyway, I'm... conflicted on this if we're just talking about my background. I'm Chinese... so it started in 1938... but I'm also a Brit... so it started in 1939... but as far as it becoming a 'world war' it started in 1941.

So, there are arguments for the core conflict from which WWII stemmed, but it can be argued as to the degree to which each local conflict contributed to the global impact of the war at large. *shrug*

As a world war 39 would be the start as most of the world was involved with the allies/axis fight. 41 just added 2 countries that were already involved officially into the mix. technically the us and Japan were fighting earlier than 41 as the US sent aircrew to help China.

 

[teebeeohh]

18th of January 1871, the German states declare themselves a united empire in fucking Versailles while laying siege to Paris. that is serious diplomatic teabagging which was one of the major reason why the French were so much more vindictive after WW1, resulting in the treaty of Versailles which gimped the new German nation and resulted in the rise of Hitler.

but really, i stand by the September 1939 date, for starters i am German and we have been hard-wired to accept the guilt of having started that thing and none of the other axis powers actually had ambitions to take over the world, Italy and Japan were cool being local Hegemonies(northern africa and the pacific) but Hitler was actually on a campaign to wipe out Jews and Communist EVERYWHERE. all the other military conflicts that factored into WW2 (people like to forget the Italians steam-rolling over Ethiopia) that started earlier were not designed to start a global war, the invasion of Poland was

 

[New Frontiersman]

I'm going to say it began in October of 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia, the African front of the war tends to be often ignored when discussing WWII, including Italy's invasion and occupation of Ethiopia.

 

[TheIronRuler]

18th of January 1871, the German states declare themselves a united empire in fucking Versailles while laying siege to Paris. that is serious diplomatic teabagging which was one of the major reason why the French were so much more vindictive after WW1, resulting in the treaty of Versailles which gimped the new German nation and resulted in the rise of Hitler.

but really, i stand by the September 1939 date, for starters i am German and we have been hard-wired to accept the guilt of having started that thing and none of the other axis powers actually had ambitions to take over the world, Italy and Japan were cool being local Hegemonies(northern africa and the pacific) but Hitler was actually on a campaign to wipe out Jews and Communist EVERYWHERE. all the other military conflicts that factored into WW2 (people like to forget the Italians steam-rolling over Ethiopia) that started earlier were not designed to start a global war, the invasion of Poland was

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Dude. The Japanese were just as bad as the Germans when it comes down to dealing with local populations. No, wait, scratch that - Worse. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre]
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I'm going to say it began in October of 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia, the African front of the war tends to be often ignored when discussing WWII, including Italy's invasion and occupation of Ethiopia.

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Woo, I think you're the only poster who chose that option and gave a comment. Congrats!

 

[Shock and Awe]

While the conflict began in 1931 with the invasion of Manchuria I would tag the beginning of the war with the textbook answer September 1939. I say this because that is when it truly became a World War. Before that it was simply Japan's wars of expansion. When Germany invaded Poland however it became a World Conflict as it suddenly involved not just Easy Asia, but Europe, Africa, and Australia as well. It became a global conflict.

However, if you really want to be an ass about it you could say that it was simply a continuation of the first World War seeing as it had almost all the same players on mostly the same sides. But thats a harder argument to make.

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...How? Japan was on the side of the Americans in WW1. The Ottomans that helped the Germans were a tiny player in WW2 (as the Turks). The reason why the same players were involved were because of god-damned France not building its fortifications in the Belgian borders, where Germany crossed and went to Paris... TWICE.

I said almost for a reason. That really isn't what I believe about the war, its just an interesting thought.

 

[TheIronRuler]

While the conflict began in 1931 with the invasion of Manchuria I would tag the beginning of the war with the textbook answer September 1939. I say this because that is when it truly became a World War. Before that it was simply Japan's wars of expansion. When Germany invaded Poland however it became a World Conflict as it suddenly involved not just Easy Asia, but Europe, Africa, and Australia as well. It became a global conflict.

However, if you really want to be an ass about it you could say that it was simply a continuation of the first World War seeing as it had almost all the same players on mostly the same sides. But thats a harder argument to make.

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...How? Japan was on the side of the Americans in WW1. The Ottomans that helped the Germans were a tiny player in WW2 (as the Turks). The reason why the same players were involved were because of god-damned France not building its fortifications in the Belgian borders, where Germany crossed and went to Paris... TWICE.

I said almost for a reason. That really isn't what I believe about the war, its just an interesting thought.

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You had an interesting observation, but unfortunately it held no water.