Poll: Who really wants a new console?

Lethal Hunter

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Of course, games and the game industry are being held back by aged hardware. Yes, it'll mean acclimatising to the new software and hardware, but that's a minor inconvenience compared to total obsoletion.

I just hope it's filled with achievements.
 

IanIvy

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Mar 22, 2011
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Question to someone who reasons that current consoles are all right: notice framerate lag in games like Black Ops. . or contrasted such graphics vs. current tech?

That game has ridiculous framerate issues, and so do other games. In addition, many models look flat until DX 11 tesselation is supported.
 

Callate

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Dec 5, 2008
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As I've said before, I'm not entirely convinced a new (Faster! More powerful! Shinier!) generation of consoles isn't going to be the first step to a new video game industry crash. So I'm not going to stamp my feet for it to come about.

When the next gen inevitably does come out, though, please remember which side you were hollering for before complaining about your $600, non-backward compatible console, and your $80+ games.
 

KelsieKatt

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May 14, 2008
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IanIvy said:
Question to someone who reasons that current consoles are all right: notice framerate lag in games like Black Ops. . or contrasted such graphics vs. current tech?

That game has ridiculous framerate issues, and so do other games. In addition, many models look flat until DX 11 tesselation is supported.
Are you talking about Black Ops on console? I don't actually play Call of Duty because I find it extremely boring, however, from what I've heard and seen the recent entries are supposed to run primarily around 60 FPS, with occasional drops to 40 on the low end. So... I'm a bit confused by your post.

Did you mean it's badly optimized on PC? If so, that would make more sense.
 

Fishyash

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Dec 27, 2010
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newdarkcloud said:
Not quite yet. I don't feel like shelling out right now.

It's a selfish reason, but it's true.
Then wouldn't it be better for you if a new console comes out, because when you DO feel like shelling out, the price might have gone down, and more games would have been released?
 

newdarkcloud

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Fishyash said:
newdarkcloud said:
Not quite yet. I don't feel like shelling out right now.

It's a selfish reason, but it's true.
Then wouldn't it be better for you if a new console comes out, because when you DO feel like shelling out, the price might have gone down, and more games would have been released?
That's a good point. It took me several years before I was ready to get into this console generation. I imagine it'd probably take just as long for the next one.
 

lewwatt

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Dec 27, 2011
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I would like to see a new generation of consoles to be released by Q4 2013 at the very latest. The tech in it is holding back AI, graphics and other potential technologies. Oh and developers seem to be getting lazy too. Bethesda was moaning about how difficult it is to develop for multiple hardware configurations despite it not being like that (they develop around DX which does most of that for them), pretty much every CoD has disgraceful texture work and the list could go on. They seem to be getting too used to these old technologies.
E: Also as mentioned above, even if they launch late 2013 it would take another two or so years for them to become affordable, mainstream and to see developers doing some impressive things.
E2: Just as a precaution incase some smartass says I only care about graphics, here's why I want better tech;
- Better FoV
- Larger render distances and map sizes
- Smarter AI
- Higher framerate
- Support for the likes of 3D and surround
- More on screen at once (eg explosions, NPCs, online players)
- Faster renders - needed if you want to have high speed vehicles like a jet in high fidelity games, also helpful for games like Tribes: Ascend.
 

DeltaEdge

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I certainly hope that they don't reveal a new PS system this year because I just got my first PS3 for Christmas! T_T But in reality, I'll probably have a job and enough money to buy it by the time it comes out, so I think that it is always better to have a new system so long as it actually has improved significantly over its previous version. The only time it would be bad is if the software barely improved or didn't improve at all, it's too pricey for what you are getting (I think Sony learned that the hard way with the PS3 in it's early years), or if people find it bad for personal reasons, like my reason, where they just got it, and a new console is already out and they feel like they are already behind the standard before they even got a chance to be at the standard, not a good reason to be opposed to a new system, just a personal one.
 

Callate

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Matthew94 said:
Yeah because games get more expensive each gen.

Oh wait, they don't.

N64 games were £40-50. PS3 games retail for £40 and most pay £30 or less within a few days/weeks.

Do you REALLY think they will price their product outside of the reach of the average consumer? No, it would be suicide.
I'm going to phrase this politely, this time.

What has changed is that it's increasingly common to sell system hardware at a loss. The Nintendo 3DS is now being produced at a signifcant loss on every unit sold, as was the PS3; it still may be, for all I know.

When the PS3 first came out, it was revealed that some of the unfortunate first-run big-name title providers would have to sell two and a half copies of their game for every PS3 that had been purchased at the time.

Take the shallowest of looks around the site, and you will see countless articles and posts about day-one DLC, complaints about piracy, anger about game price increases, industry hatred of the used-game market, the closures of studios whose games "only" sold in the high six- and low seven-figure range, expansion of the independent and "phone games" markets.

All of these articles point to one very simple fact. Games are getting more and more expensive to make, and prices are artificially, unsustainably low.

If you look at a game from the N64 era, you might take a moment to look at the end credits. It may have a couple dozen names. If you look at a similarly priced game from the XBox 360 and PS3 era, the credits will frequently roll on long enough to play all the way through a couple of popular songs.

Every single one of those names has to draw a paycheck. The texture artists, the modelers, the motion-capture guys, the beta-testers, the voice-actors who dubbed the game into German.

Delivering the next-generation experience that justifies customers making the leap simply means more texture artists, modelers, motion capture guys, etc. etc. For the poor schmucks who spearhead the charge into the next generation, it means fighting with a cumbersome new piece of hardware, more complicated than the last, whose development kits probably haven't had all the bugs ironed out yet. The reward for this struggle is getting to create games that will be sold at full price only to the tiny pool of early adopters, many of whom will probably deride the work as not really taking advantage of the new platform and being too reminiscent of the last generation.

And the hardware side gets to go through another run of manufacturing underruns and production snafus and red-rings-of-death.

These kinds of conditions were hard enough to financially justify when, for example, the Japanese video game market was healthy.

There is a reason why the places the market is expanding right now are in small-team projects like cell phone games and Facebook games. There is a reason why there's an increased consolidation among the groups responsible for producing AAA-titles, and so many subcontracted development teams either get absorbed into bigger companies wholesale or close their doors. There is a reason the big three haven't been eager to push into a new generation. These developments did not occur in a vacuum.

The fact that you can jump up and down on the edge of a cliff for years singing "Nothing ever changes, la la la la la" does not preclude the possibility that one day your jumping causes the whole thing to give way underneath you. Or as stock traders like to say, "Past performance is not an indicator of future results."

Before you make blithe assumptions about the cliff, take a look at the cracks.
 

Tommeh Brownleh

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May 26, 2011
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Why not instead of an Xbox ### Microsoft releases hardware upgrades? More ram, a Blu Ray/DVD reader, better processor, that sort of thing. It would be cheaper to make, it would be easier to make, and we don't have to go out and buy new big white boxes.
 

Callate

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Matthew94 said:
The 3DS costs $103.25 to make and retails on Amazon for $183, something tells me they aren't making a huge loss, hell it seems like they are making a profit, hardly a significant loss as you put it.

http://www.isuppli.com/teardowns/news/pages/nintendo-3ds-carries-$100-71-bill-of-materials-ihs-isuppli-physical-teardown-reveals.aspx
And yet:

IHS iSuppli Market intelligence are the site in question, and have estimated that the cost of the direct materials for the system is around $112.50 (0r £72).

This does not cover the other various factors that go into making the system though, such as material manufacture of the core device, licensing fees, shipping costs.

What this means is that Nintendo could be taking a hit for every 3DS they sell, especially after cutting the price of the portable by 33% earlier this year.
http://3dstribe.com/features/nintendo-3ds-sold-at-loss-risk/

also:

Research firm IHS iSuppli has done a teardown of the device in question and has noted that the total cost of materials put in to each Nintendo 3DS is $100.71. With this and manufacturing cost added in, this number is raised ever so slightly up to $103.25. After this, TechRepublic puts the wholesale price of an item at about half of the retail price. This means Nintendo is selling the units to retailers at just $85 per unit. If this is all we need to consider, says PC Mag, then Nintendo, according to the math, definitely is selling the 3DS at a loss ? and by quite a considerable amount ? they also suggest that if Nintendo?s partners are willing to take a lower share than is average as a larger volume is sold, the gaming group may still be coming out on top.
http://www.slashgear.com/nintendo-possibly-taking-a-loss-on-every-3ds-unit-sold-29168390/

Well, as I see it all it tells me is that consoles need to get out of the past and get into digital distribution. There they can make considerably more profit and still sell games at the same prices and this can help ease the cost of production.

This let Valve retail Portal 2 at £30 with multi game bundles taking the price to £23 and it's a AAA game.
Digital distribution might help. But it's a question whether digital distribution alone is enough to recoup the costs not incurred from physical distribution vs. the costs of a network infrastructure that can handle that distribution plus the additional staff necessitated by the expansions to a new generation of hardware and software.

It's also notable that most of the current console digital downloads have strict limitations on their size, which is part of why the smaller-scale independent projects have prospered in that niche. Pushing Blu-Ray-sized games through a broadband connection is a trickier problem, even in countries that have relatively robust broadband Internet; in a country like Australia, that simply isn't going to be possible.
 

masticina

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Jan 19, 2011
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Well both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 over 5 year old.. game designers and studios would like a little bit more performance. Sure they still are like damn good cars but ... they are relative old. They still work fine but lack the ESP/ESC you desire.

Graphics might not make the game but graphics can aid telling a story. Things like artificial intelligence, programming, the way you want to have your gaming experience.. you are limited by the hardware. And better hardware allows, technically, for you to do more!

I own consoles from quite a few generations and yeah I am happy that we are beyond the NES. Hey the Nes is a lovely piece of hardware and for that time very nice gaming system. It has laid the basics we still enjoy ... yes but a bit of progress is nice.

More important once gamedesigns hit the wall, hit the performance/cost curve wall. Then the hardware begins to limit them, sure you can program smarter. Optimize where possible but even that has limits and even that ..hits a wall. Take your favourite game look at it good, what if it is close to that wall.. even if it is already highly optimized. No new hardware would mean that games would be stuck on that level.

And yes I know gaming is not just about performance.. but also about art and story. I totally agree but game makers just need space for their creativity. For their ideas, hitting that wall and not getting new hardware.. even after you have spend allot of time and money in optimizing it. It is like a slightly to thigh jacket. You know.. you want more.

This is not for us, it is mostly because game designers want to be able to do more. Other ways to get their content out even stronger. Take music, the bleeps of NES.. lovely iconic. Again take Skyrim or your favourite RPG and see how they work with the music. Just listen to the music of the game.. and where it is used. It is nicer then bleeps isn't it? it is more effective in getting that emotional effect it seeks.

So to express an emotion, to get our visuals to high levels we need new hardware. At least one needs to be able to go further then that wall.. that wall where getting out the last 5%... is going to cost you allot of money!

We will see when the new next gen shows up so to say, what it has to offer, and what new experiences it might give us. Hey if they can make every game do 60fps at 1080p ..would be nice. As usual it tends to begin with better graphics and sound.. and as more games come out other things improve to.
 

Callate

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Matthew94 said:
I should have read more of that link, point taken. :)

On the topic of DD I understand it can't replace discs but they could do a few things to encourage it's use

-Sell the games 10-20% cheaper than retail, when a game comes out 2 weeks after retail and costs £10 more it means no one is ever going to buy them.

-Have services like PS+ give a blanket discount on retail downloadable games or increase the install cap to encourage repeat purchases.


I know they can't switch over in 1 or even 2 gens but they should at least encourage it's use.
I agree that one way or another digital distribution is probably the future. But if digital distribution is going to be the future of the kind of games we typically play on consoles, we're probably going to need a significant improvement in compression technology or a huge amount of improvement in broadband Internet in many places across the globe. Either or both is certainly possible within two console generations.

While I'm pleased and impressed by many independent, primarily download games like Bastion, Limbo, and Braid, it would have to be admitted that none of them really require next-gen hardware to power them. In fact, previous generation hardware would probably have been sufficient; it's just that most previous-gen machines didn't have the inherent connectivity to download them.
 

IanIvy

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Mar 22, 2011
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KelsieKatt said:
Did you mean..
No. I haven't played on PC, but realize that developers bi*** a lot about how little memory the box has..notice that CoD 5 and Blops both have similar graphics -- so much more can be done with current tech that the bar was hit almost immediately, and no improvements have been made since; ask someone who's computer savvy.

In addition, if anyone wants to message me to get video proof of console lag just send me a message, and I can reply as soon as I get a recording device.