Poll: Why I don't like Elves
- Thread starter Skeleon
- Start date
When I use elves in my fantasy role playing sessions, it's alwayes as some type of wicked, vain, and very powerful(if very beutiful) faery being that the characters would do best to not confront.
When I play as a player(Actually pretty rare), I usually go for either humans or dwarves. Dwarves are... I don't know, they are like humans, basically, so there is never a big problem with roleplaying them correctly, only in the same time they are funnier, cuter, cooler, and way more badass.
P.S. Jumping off a speedy, flying gryphon cursing in dwarven and waving your hammer around then hitting the ground like an armoured, bearded meteor is TONS of fun. I tried that.
In a D&D game, I mean.
When I play as a player(Actually pretty rare), I usually go for either humans or dwarves. Dwarves are... I don't know, they are like humans, basically, so there is never a big problem with roleplaying them correctly, only in the same time they are funnier, cuter, cooler, and way more badass.
P.S. Jumping off a speedy, flying gryphon cursing in dwarven and waving your hammer around then hitting the ground like an armoured, bearded meteor is TONS of fun. I tried that.
In a D&D game, I mean.
So elves are the mythical answer to prep boys and valley girls who's sole contribution to society is that they will taste good with ketchup after the society that created them collapses and we unclean ones feast upon them as they futilely attempt to tweet how much having their leg gnawed off suxz. Now I know why Yahtzee likes stomping on a Night Elves faces.
Oh, I can sympathize. Like I said, it took me three tries to finish (well...three to get past the first quarter, the stuff about the Valar), and that's only because I was a determined enough Tolkien nerd to even try. I only brought it up to counter the assertion that Tolkien's elves were "generic."Computer-Noob said:
Granted, I had the same trouble with the Bible and the Qur'an, but I also had less motivation to to finish those (though I'm ripe for another try with the latter).
I don't love or hate elves, I'm on the fence.
As Oxhorn once said, they're just so damn...trendy.
As Oxhorn once said, they're just so damn...trendy.
Am I the only one who liked that movie? It's not on my top 10 list (or even Top 100), but it was funny and lighthearted and sometimes that's good enough. Although, it might just be because I enjoy watching grown men dance and sing dressed as elves in public.SuperMse said:Maybe you dislike Elves because of Will Ferrell?
Don't judge me.
"None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss; needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!" -FeanorOneirius said:
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever..." - the Prophecy of Mandos
Just because Tolkien didn't write the elves as the alien, inscrutable Fair Folk they are in mythology doesn't mean he Disneyfied them.
I've always been irked with sort of the same thing about elves. They are just so damn good at everything. Never mind the fact that their race is always dying out for some reason (since otherwise the -very- human creators/players of the game would feel insignificant) but they are always magical and learned, graceful and beautiful, wise etc. etc. Most of this has been stated and I won't spend much time regurgitating.
The problem is of course that I love to play elves. I enjoy playing a beautiful, graceful magical being, although the scare of being labelled a "maru-sue/gary-stu" can force you away from the best of concepts. But still, sometimes I wish that one of my friends would DM a "no holds barred" fantasy setting where we all could -free of prejudice about fanism- play the craziest, weirdest and most clichéd characters ever. it would probably be awesome.
Elves to me though fill a fantasy niche that is taken by vampires for most contemporary settings, maybe best shown in the twilight movie. Vampires are depicted a beautiful, graceful, strong, fast, smart, eternal and (in the aforementioned film/books interpretation) able to glitter in an attractive way when hit by sunlight. And in this I think is the main gripe about both "races". There are no cons to being one. Elves and vamps are more or less tailored to being superheroes of many books, because in reality who doesn't want to be fast, strong and have the opposite sex fawn over you (not to mention eternal youth). One can analyse many kinds of elves, the I-do-evi- for-the-sake-of-evil cardboard cut outs of Drow and WH-Dark elf, or the I'm-a-posh-git-whos-only-flaw-is-vanity of most every other stock fantasy elf in existence. But in the end they are all boring only due to their 'infallible' nature, their way of being better than humans in every single way so that the only reason we don't resent them is by arbitrarily assigning them some defects that make us superior. (be it few births, mass exodus, drinking blood, being emo etc)
The problem is of course that I love to play elves. I enjoy playing a beautiful, graceful magical being, although the scare of being labelled a "maru-sue/gary-stu" can force you away from the best of concepts. But still, sometimes I wish that one of my friends would DM a "no holds barred" fantasy setting where we all could -free of prejudice about fanism- play the craziest, weirdest and most clichéd characters ever. it would probably be awesome.
Elves to me though fill a fantasy niche that is taken by vampires for most contemporary settings, maybe best shown in the twilight movie. Vampires are depicted a beautiful, graceful, strong, fast, smart, eternal and (in the aforementioned film/books interpretation) able to glitter in an attractive way when hit by sunlight. And in this I think is the main gripe about both "races". There are no cons to being one. Elves and vamps are more or less tailored to being superheroes of many books, because in reality who doesn't want to be fast, strong and have the opposite sex fawn over you (not to mention eternal youth). One can analyse many kinds of elves, the I-do-evi- for-the-sake-of-evil cardboard cut outs of Drow and WH-Dark elf, or the I'm-a-posh-git-whos-only-flaw-is-vanity of most every other stock fantasy elf in existence. But in the end they are all boring only due to their 'infallible' nature, their way of being better than humans in every single way so that the only reason we don't resent them is by arbitrarily assigning them some defects that make us superior. (be it few births, mass exodus, drinking blood, being emo etc)
The logic for elvs/elfs/elves is to understand the view point of national isolation and stagnation, the concept that tradition trumps progress.
orcs/orks/ori-ki/orekicks are the logic of the Freudian Id (no ego no super ego) rage for self, eat for self, kill for self preservation, "I'm the biggest and the strongest".
dwarfs are the neutral introvert, alcoholics for pleasure, strong to keep those; that mean ill will away, and keep to themselves in mountains/stone fortresses, they are as blunt as their mace weapons and as to the point as their guns.
humans are middle of the road mostly to give a greater seance of scale for emotions and culture of the other "races"
gnomes are the programmers the scientist, the alchemist, trying to find out: what, when, why, and how thing(s), people, places and areas operate.
that's the main idea.
it's not that elves are meant to be likable it's to try to show the spectrum of human beliefs in the political/religious/society
elves are the people in real life that cling to the old ways of thinking, be it religion, "old school gamers" or those that refuse to accept new technologies but have a strong power in society.
we all understand this mindset has benefits and flaws, but it is only a path of thinking
Maybe you have a personal belief that is better or worse then the traditional elf approach but that's because you are not a fictional character! You are a living breathing human with changing ideas and thoughts.
That's the idea though elves are just against change because they are so set in there ways.
oh, sorry for the long post.
and if anyone knows a flaw in what I said please point it out (it's the only way I'll learn).
orcs/orks/ori-ki/orekicks are the logic of the Freudian Id (no ego no super ego) rage for self, eat for self, kill for self preservation, "I'm the biggest and the strongest".
dwarfs are the neutral introvert, alcoholics for pleasure, strong to keep those; that mean ill will away, and keep to themselves in mountains/stone fortresses, they are as blunt as their mace weapons and as to the point as their guns.
humans are middle of the road mostly to give a greater seance of scale for emotions and culture of the other "races"
gnomes are the programmers the scientist, the alchemist, trying to find out: what, when, why, and how thing(s), people, places and areas operate.
that's the main idea.
it's not that elves are meant to be likable it's to try to show the spectrum of human beliefs in the political/religious/society
elves are the people in real life that cling to the old ways of thinking, be it religion, "old school gamers" or those that refuse to accept new technologies but have a strong power in society.
we all understand this mindset has benefits and flaws, but it is only a path of thinking
Maybe you have a personal belief that is better or worse then the traditional elf approach but that's because you are not a fictional character! You are a living breathing human with changing ideas and thoughts.
That's the idea though elves are just against change because they are so set in there ways.
oh, sorry for the long post.
and if anyone knows a flaw in what I said please point it out (it's the only way I'll learn).
I would generally have to agree with the OP. If the usual presumptions about the race hold true, primarily the life span, then you get a race of characters that, for the purposes of human perception at least, do not develop.
It's all a matter of perspective I suppose, and as humans we are forced to measure things by our own existance. The average human can hope to live to about 75 years old, compared to the hundres, or thousands of possible years an Elf may live. While the total character devlopment potential over the lifecycles of the two races may be the same, this means that on average, an elf character that lives to be 10,000 years old probably will not noticably devlop in the mere blink of an eye that humans stick around for.
Worse still, elves are often devloped as "stock characters", and poor writing keeps them from devoping much in the course of the narrative. In Lord of the Rings, it was the hobbits who drove the action, and the rest of the characters simply moved through the plot with little change in their character. From time to time, elves are shown as the primary characters, and there are likely instances here where an elf may indeed prove to be a dynamic character.
So, really, it seems that cannon, writing, and even genre conventions often ensure elves are card board cutout characters, easily added, replaced or lost without even a murmer of discontent from the audience.
It's all a matter of perspective I suppose, and as humans we are forced to measure things by our own existance. The average human can hope to live to about 75 years old, compared to the hundres, or thousands of possible years an Elf may live. While the total character devlopment potential over the lifecycles of the two races may be the same, this means that on average, an elf character that lives to be 10,000 years old probably will not noticably devlop in the mere blink of an eye that humans stick around for.
Worse still, elves are often devloped as "stock characters", and poor writing keeps them from devoping much in the course of the narrative. In Lord of the Rings, it was the hobbits who drove the action, and the rest of the characters simply moved through the plot with little change in their character. From time to time, elves are shown as the primary characters, and there are likely instances here where an elf may indeed prove to be a dynamic character.
So, really, it seems that cannon, writing, and even genre conventions often ensure elves are card board cutout characters, easily added, replaced or lost without even a murmer of discontent from the audience.
I like the most the New World of Darkness version of the elves (part of the fae).
Beautiful, powerful and extreamly cruel. The perfect antagonists.
For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling:_The_Lost
Beautiful, powerful and extreamly cruel. The perfect antagonists.
For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling:_The_Lost
I didn't see it, so I'm not going to judge you.Calobi said:
But generally, Santa's Elves aren't the Tolkien-esque kind I'm talking about here, anyway.
Nah, I think you're right. I generally dislike this scheme of unchanging, I suppose.levelone said:
It's quite true that most races signify certain human traits, extrapolated to the extreme. Maybe it's just that I hate the specific traits Elves (generally/generically) stand for.
Quite right. No surprise that I prefer Werewolves over Vampires then, eh?MNRA said:
Hm, but as a counter-example I'd like to present the Ents. They are also a dying race, they grow extremely old but somehow they still show character (primarily Treebeard, but also some of the younger Ents are shown to have quite specific personalities). Even though they are, well, slow.Eclectic Dreck said:
This I agree with, fully. It's one of my main gripes with Elves. As for dynamic Elves, well, apart from Legolas I can't really think of any on the spot (from LOTR at least).
Nope. Fae stand for Elves, Ogres, Goblins and all alike. The mythology is that they are all the same. That an Elve could some they decide that being and Ogre will be much more fun and suddenly he is an Ogre and not just his apperience. The Elve purge his mind of any memories of being Elve and create fake memories of being Ogre from the begining. And yes every one of the Fae is quate mad.LimaBravo said:So a total bastardisation of the Fae thenlordsandro said:Given the fae are capracious and various from Redcap to Elatha the Bueatiful.
