Poll: Worst game-lengthening scheme.
- Thread starter Aircross
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Instant death and repeating enemies (or worst, repeating instant death enemies).Aircross said:
By far the worst offender: Halo 2
Case in point: The Sniper Jackals
On Heroic and Legendary, these little delights have the capacity to kill you in a single shot, as well asa hitscan weapon and the ability to draw a bead on you wicked fast.
However, much worse is the manner in which they spawn on New Mombasa and Uprising. Specifically, at a number of points killing one triggers the immediate spawn of a second, directly behind the first.
Not only is the spawn instantaneous, the Jackal is facing you and already aiming, unless you duck behind cover it will kill you, every, damned, time. The shots from those little bastards come so fast that the second can kill you faster than you can fire two shots from the sniper rifle, it's that unfair.
The levels they feature in usually had dozen of them, making each checkpoint a test of memory more than your skill, memorise every position and make your shot with the first bullet every time, or else re-start the section AGAIN.
There's a reason they were downgraded to using Carbines in Halo 3...
A close second going to The Flood, Elites and Brutes, who all gained the ability to kill you in one melee strike from Normal upwards, worst for the elites who could do it from any angle, seemingly from ten feet away.
Worst of all when they're right after a checkpoint, particularly before a difficult section or boss fight.Kuriko said:
I don't mind unskippable cut scenes.
Well, I do, but only on the second play through, or I am playing a game I don't care two shakes of milk about, which, obviously doesn?t happen too often.
And grinding, while I am against it, if implemented correctly, I don't mind that too much either.
I think my worst fear is millions of side quests and backtracking.
But in a game like Dead Island where side quests are the main course of the meal, I don't mind it too much, but I do get burned out after a while and tend to skip many of them near the end.
So I think I?m going to go with backtracking on this one.
Well, I do, but only on the second play through, or I am playing a game I don't care two shakes of milk about, which, obviously doesn?t happen too often.
And grinding, while I am against it, if implemented correctly, I don't mind that too much either.
I think my worst fear is millions of side quests and backtracking.
But in a game like Dead Island where side quests are the main course of the meal, I don't mind it too much, but I do get burned out after a while and tend to skip many of them near the end.
So I think I?m going to go with backtracking on this one.
"Endless Grinding" was my vote, but I would like to say that's under a fairly specific context; as in literally "endless", not just figuratively.
To be more precise, the type of endless grinding which the MMORPG genre implements; the grind is continuously being extended through the addition of more content, which is then encouraged by having that new content requiring that you acquire the new gear from said content in order to complete it. Ultimately, the point of the game then devolves into a functionally unending gear-progression-ladder ("GPL" for short); one frequently subject to absurd stat-inflation and often encourages some of the worst cases of elitism you'll find in any gaming community.
To say these games drag their content out is an understatement, as they frequently are played for years by the same people; almost everyone will eventually end up quitting the game due to them being fed up with this endless cycle, typically well past the point the game has over-stayed its welcome. The inherent addictiveness of the genre isn't helping either.
As sad as it is to say, someone has contrived a way to make a game functionally endless... and people have actually fallen for it en masse (and are paying a periodic subscription fee to keep playing it). The game is constantly being lengthened, and seldom are those extensions actually beneficial to the game.
And yes, I do have a bit of a grudge against World of Warcraft. Why do you ask?
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As for the other options in the poll: back-tracking, fetch-quests, and cutscenes? Those are at least enjoyable to a degree, if not by everyone. Back-tracking is an integral part of games where exploration is a strong element, with the player finding new routes and short-cuts through older areas as their capabilities increase; finding those, along with other hidden secrets, can give back-tracking an appeal to many. Fetch-quests, while they tend to be boring and/or redundant on their own, can lead to other discoveries and diversions; there's also the possibility that a fetch-quest could be executed quite well with a good premise, interesting story elements, a neat setting, unique mechanics, and so on (though you'd probably forget it is fundamentally a fetch-quest at that point). And cutscenes? A good story can be conveyed through those cut-scenes, and good pacing won't make the fact they're unskippable a problem (repeat play-throughs not withstanding).
But endless grinding? Never is that a good thing, especially when it's quite literal. At best, grinding is integrated with other gameplay (and/or story) elements; such that the player never feels like they're actually grinding.
The moment the player feels like they're grinding, you have a problem.
To be more precise, the type of endless grinding which the MMORPG genre implements; the grind is continuously being extended through the addition of more content, which is then encouraged by having that new content requiring that you acquire the new gear from said content in order to complete it. Ultimately, the point of the game then devolves into a functionally unending gear-progression-ladder ("GPL" for short); one frequently subject to absurd stat-inflation and often encourages some of the worst cases of elitism you'll find in any gaming community.
To say these games drag their content out is an understatement, as they frequently are played for years by the same people; almost everyone will eventually end up quitting the game due to them being fed up with this endless cycle, typically well past the point the game has over-stayed its welcome. The inherent addictiveness of the genre isn't helping either.
As sad as it is to say, someone has contrived a way to make a game functionally endless... and people have actually fallen for it en masse (and are paying a periodic subscription fee to keep playing it). The game is constantly being lengthened, and seldom are those extensions actually beneficial to the game.
And yes, I do have a bit of a grudge against World of Warcraft. Why do you ask?
---
As for the other options in the poll: back-tracking, fetch-quests, and cutscenes? Those are at least enjoyable to a degree, if not by everyone. Back-tracking is an integral part of games where exploration is a strong element, with the player finding new routes and short-cuts through older areas as their capabilities increase; finding those, along with other hidden secrets, can give back-tracking an appeal to many. Fetch-quests, while they tend to be boring and/or redundant on their own, can lead to other discoveries and diversions; there's also the possibility that a fetch-quest could be executed quite well with a good premise, interesting story elements, a neat setting, unique mechanics, and so on (though you'd probably forget it is fundamentally a fetch-quest at that point). And cutscenes? A good story can be conveyed through those cut-scenes, and good pacing won't make the fact they're unskippable a problem (repeat play-throughs not withstanding).
But endless grinding? Never is that a good thing, especially when it's quite literal. At best, grinding is integrated with other gameplay (and/or story) elements; such that the player never feels like they're actually grinding.
The moment the player feels like they're grinding, you have a problem.
I despise grinding out of all of them. It's boring, monotonous work of *wait 30 seconds, find enemy and have pre-battle dancing, fight for thirty seconds, end, repeat unto infinity for three hours*
Fetch quests are also annoying, but at least in games like Fallout you get some pretty eye candy or exploration along the way. The same goes for backtracking a bit, there's something positive you can find in those areas.
I've also yet to find unskippable cut scenes a major issue, mostly due to my ability to not lose that often, or they become skippable the second time or such.
(As for my problem with grinding, I can't really explore have the same thrill; the grinding I've encountered has never been in games with good exploration aspects)
Fetch quests are also annoying, but at least in games like Fallout you get some pretty eye candy or exploration along the way. The same goes for backtracking a bit, there's something positive you can find in those areas.
I've also yet to find unskippable cut scenes a major issue, mostly due to my ability to not lose that often, or they become skippable the second time or such.
(As for my problem with grinding, I can't really explore have the same thrill; the grinding I've encountered has never been in games with good exploration aspects)
I guess I can see why you'd think that, but it strikes me as a little odd. Sure you don't play games to watch a film...Tohuvabohu said:
But films can be interesting, as can cutscenes. (They become annoying of course, if you have to watch the same thing a million times, no matter how good it was the first time.)
But therein we see the issue.
Grinding is repetitive by definition. Being interactive doesn't make the repetition better.
Personally, I'd rather watch an interesting cutscene than be in control of doing some boring repetitive action.
And grinding anything at all is bound to be really repetitive, because if it wasn't, it wouldn't really be grinding.
When a big boss shows up, you fight for a while and beat them, and then a few minutes later the boss creature/whatever shows up again, and again, and again. it's like grinding but it consumes all of your consumables insanely fast.
eh it depends on which game it is and HOW they do each of those annoying things
if the unskippable cut scenes are right before a boss and you have to go through them every time you die...yeah that is fucking awful
but also, i think the next worst one in my mind, is the backtracking shit, i have the biggest "are you fucking kidding me" face on everytime that happens, it took me 2 HOURS TO GET HERE, you couldn't have told me to pick up that special piece of bread before?!?!?!
if the unskippable cut scenes are right before a boss and you have to go through them every time you die...yeah that is fucking awful
but also, i think the next worst one in my mind, is the backtracking shit, i have the biggest "are you fucking kidding me" face on everytime that happens, it took me 2 HOURS TO GET HERE, you couldn't have told me to pick up that special piece of bread before?!?!?!
Ding ding ding! We have a winner here, people!DVS BSTrD said:
I'm not sure what I would choose from the poll, but the thing that puts me off a game them most is artificial difficulty, where the game suddenly makes enemies more powerful than usual for the sake of giving you more of a challenge. "Oh, well I'm sorry I'm doing well at your game! Perhap you should have given consideration that people may get this good this quickly!"
It's kind of averted in some games where they just place you up against a bigger class of enemy, as you were going to face them sooner or later. But when a faceless mook, the likes of which you've killed countless times suddenly has 50% more health and does double damage, or when a racer suddenly shoots past you like their car is fuelled by darkmatter, then that just pisses me off.
Next to that, I'd have to say grinding.
Ah yes, but that game has fully voiced fetch quests, which makes all the difference. Right?viranimus said:
Or not. If it's quest text I can skim over it for the details that matter (what, where and how much covers it - why doesn't really come into it) but a fully voiced cut scene explaining how important it is for you to pick up 10 droid parts is a one dollar quest in hundred dollar wrapping paper.
Oblivion might have been worse though:
NPC: Oh please, won't you go into the forest and find my stolen pumpkins*
Me (thinking): You do realise there's an actual Portal to HELL just over that hill two minutes from your home, don't you? I mean, do you really want me to go and find your goddamn pumpkin or would you rather I saved the world?
[sub]*I think it was pumpkins. Or potatoes, or something...[/sub]
Ok, well let's look at it that way. As soon as you start the game you can kill any enemy in one blow, jump higher than anyone else, out smart anyone else, recruit anyone to your side just by asking without any cost or requirement. The game ceases to be a challenge and you get bored of it even quicker. If you fuck pacing, you fuck the game.SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Grinding is the one thing that eventually ends my playthroughs of Pokemon games. I greatly enjoy those games but can't stand the pre-Elite Four (second round) grinding.
To me it's the fetch quest and backtracking. If the story is one of those must save the world than why would I fetch [item x] for you? The same can be said with the backtracking as it is a real waste of time.
Endless grinding= most final fantasy games pre 7. I just cant get into them...
And the unskippable cutscenes in tales of vesperia made me wanna kill myself!! I mean come the fuck on! Who in the hell thought you would wanna watch a five minute cutscene after loosing to the boss for the 18th time?
Rant complete...
And the unskippable cutscenes in tales of vesperia made me wanna kill myself!! I mean come the fuck on! Who in the hell thought you would wanna watch a five minute cutscene after loosing to the boss for the 18th time?
Rant complete...