Poll: Worst game-lengthening scheme.

[Grabbin Keelz]

Grinding, god damn grinding.

I stopped playing MMO's and avoid leveling RPG's whenever possible to avoid it. I can usually forgive it if it's a game where you can level up as you progress, but any turn based combat grinding is just the worst.

 

[FoolKiller]

Hmm... good question.

I would say that I hate difficulties that are locked and content locked based on beating it on said locked difficulties.

One of the worst offenders (and yes this ties to achievements) is the lack of achievement difficulty stacking to get said achievement. Why after beating a game on normal and hard do I have to suffer through it for the achievement for "beat game on easy".

The other one is where there is content locked to beating the game on hard. While this is fine by itself, the fact that I have to beat it on normal to even get a chance to play on hard is a waste of time. Why lock away a challenge?

 

[Kernalgohd]

I honestly don't think there's such thing as a bad game lengthening scheme, as long as its executed right.
I don't mind endless grinding, as long as the fighting is entertaining and the monsters are varied/unique.
I don't mind tireless backtracking, as long as the place looks nice and doesn't do it constantly in that area. I notice a lot of cool things about places on the way back that you just don't see first run through.
Billions of fetch quests, as long as not every one of them is mandatory and again, the areas look nice, also if they aren't just the same thing rehashed in a slight way.
Unskippable cutscenes, another that depends on how nice it looks, and also as long as they don't replay for dumb shit (Like losing a boss fight and then having to watch him walk his ass back to the middle of the room like a slug while he says why he has to kill you).

 

[Blue Hero]

Worst game lengthening scheme I've encountered was the last few levels of Dante's Inferno. I forget what the thing was called, but you just killed random enemies using specific attacks within a time limit. It was stupid and crappy and boring and I hated it.

 

[WaReloaded]

I dislike backtracking more than anything else in video games. I remember playing Resident Evil 2 when it was released and there was an overwhelming amount of backtracking in the game, having said that, it's still one of my favourite games.

 

[FoolKiller]

I hate collectables with a passion when they have no perpose though. The Assassin's Creed series is a huge offender, with pennants, feathers, treasure chests which barely give any money, paintings, weapons, armour, and that's just what I remember from games 1 and 2.

And the problem is that Assassin's Creed (AC) had 420 of them. And they had no effect. None whatsoever. Developers seem to have forgotten that there should be a reward for finding the spots and the ability to do it unhindered.

Its annoying trying to pick up collectibles where you can't backtrack, level select, or get shot at while trying to pick up said item. I believe it was Critical Miss who pointed this out.

The perfect system is a mix of GTA III and IV. In III you got rewards for every 10 packages that you found. Unfortunately you had to do them first in each area or you were always getting shot at while exploring.

In IV, you got to find all 200 birds... and there was an in game map. Also, while not on a mission you could search without getting shot at on sight. Too bad they forgot to give you a reason (other than an achievement) for doing so.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

"Oh hero, you want to pass through this gate? I will let you, but first you must do something for me."

Every RPG, ever. Ugh.

I don't think it's that bad. Imagine if the game just let you go wherever you want, whenever you want.

Pacing, dude. Pacing.

Fuck pacing then. If a part of a game is boring and feels pointless, the devs fucked up, no matter why you are forced t go there. These "Do something for me first" quests feel boring and pointless 99.9% of the time.

If it's a "fuck you, do this for me before I do something for you" quest, then yeah it always sucks. It's not so bad if they're done properly. "Do something for me first" quests are THE most irritating thing to me, if an NPC tells you to go do something (s)he is perfectly capable of doing on their own.

Unskippable cutscenes, endless backtracking, pointless quests that are there simply to be there, travel time(as someone else said, although I disagree with them on their point about DA: O since you can sell any item to any vendor, unlike Skyrim), all of it sucks. It's annoying and more often then not, done entirely wrong.

 

[nsqared]

In fact, it is hard to choose one, mainly because we hate them all so much.

 

[RagnarokHybrid]

Random irrelevant unexplained boss fights.

Final Fantasy XIII pulled this left and right and Bayonetta is probably right behind it.

 

[BlueItem]

I went with endless grinding. Grinding, in sane amounts, can be a fine way to pace your game or provide a sense of accomplishment when a player finally does take down whatever's been troubling them. Admittedly, this should probably be done in a certain way -- less "I put another 2 hours into this game and won just because of that" and more "I thought about what abilities I needed, put another two hours into this game to acquire them, and won because I now had the tools necessary to do so."

But when it gets bad is when you have massive chunks of grinding to do at a time. The worst is the difficult spike grinds, when you're progressing through a game normally and suddenly a boss/set of enemies shows up that utterly and unfairly owns you. This is exacerbated because it's usually not anything you did wrong with character equipment and skill set up, but more "oh sorry, you need at least another 300 hp and more defense to not die instantly. Have fun leveling up until you have that."

I don't understand all the ire towards unskippable cutscenes comes from. I mostly play rpgs, so I usually care about the story, but even if I didn't, I can't think of too many games where the cutscenes were so unbearably long, and even less where a person playing them wouldn't care about the story. (Xenosaga springs to mind, but if you're not following the story a little, why are you even playing it? The battle system is pretty average, I think). Poor cutscene placement can provide some annoyance, but that's a separate issue then just the cutscenes themselves being unskippable.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Backtracking is by far the worst IMO. Nothing new to look at!

 

[Fusioncode9]

I'll go with backtracking, so annoying to have to play through the same area several times just because the game designers couldn't think of another way to extend game time.

 

[lordlillen]

Interesting question. There's quite a bit of low tricks devs can pull to force more hours into their games. But after reading through your list, what instantly began to grind my gears just by the mere thought is: Unskippable Cutscenes.

But are unskippable cutscenes really the technically worst way to add more length to a game? After all, cutscenes... SOMETIMES, don't last too long. Whereas endless grinding can take hours.

In my eyes, I still think unskippable cutscenes are the worst because with endless grinding for example, you are still actually playing the goddamned game. Unlike with the cutscenes, that seems to throw the fact that it's a GAME out the window and says "Fuck you" while you sit there and watch.

this, add the fact that the checkpoint is before the cutscene and you got a recipe for disaster, atleast if your going to have them make an abridged version for the multiple times your going to watch them.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

Unskippable cutscenes are the most hated for me.

Fetch quests can be done very well, so much so that they're not really annoying at all. They're a staple of the Zelda series, which has to date released some of the greatest games of all time. The main problem with fetch quests, I think, is that they're often done poorly in practice.

Backtracking can also be tedious if done poorly, but again, it can also be done well. The key is giving the player something new to do, some way to interact with the environment in a way they could not do when first visiting the area. "Metroidvania" games revel in backtracking, and they manage to make it something enjoyable in many cases.

Forced grinding is definitely something that should be avoided whenever possible, but I myself don't really mind it for some reason. I do agree that any significant amount of grinding is a flaw in game design that should be avoided whenever possible, but for some reason it's never bothered me as much as it seems to bother other people. (This might have something to do with me playing competitive Pokemon, I'm guessing.)

Unskippable cutscenes are the worst because they don't have any sort of interaction with the player. I'm okay with watching an unskippable cutscene if it's relevant to the story and I don't have to see it again, but the problem is that many times you do have to see it again. We've all had trouble on a difficult boss before, and if that boss is preceded with a cutscene, it should be skippable so that you don't have to watch it again when you fail.

 

[Jfswift]

I personally can't stand excessive grinding. Some is kind of fun because it gives you a chance to practice and show off your moves but too much just gets boring. I would have to list demons soul as an okay example (off the top of my head).

Edit: also I don't mind backtracking if it makes sense, like if you go back in time to when blaster master came out on the nes. You usually couldn't access an area yet because you lacked a key or special diving gear for your tank-car.

 

[miva2]

grinding, i hate grinding.
it's the reason why i don't like 90+% of mmorpgs
except in disgaea, but i'm not at a level yet where i need to focus on grinding. it's just playing many random generated levels.

backtracking is cool.
I like coming back to the same environment and find ways to clear it more efficiently.

I think cutscenes should be unskippable the first time you see them.
but after seeing them more than once, yeah they should definitely be skippable if they last more than 5 seconds.

 

[go-10]

backtracking by far it can be a pain, Skyward Sword pulled it of right but there are some games that make it a tedious chore

I don't mind grinding, I've been doing it for so many years now that I automatically grind when I get to a new place until I'm strong enough to pummel through

 

[DracoSuave]

Drawing magic in Final Fantasy 8?

This! Dear God, this!

They actually invented a whole new kind of grinding with the "draw magic"-mechanic. And why? Just so they could fuel the most paradoxical stat-enhancing mechanic ever.

Imagine if magic wasn't just a series of spells used to attack, heal or buff; but also a form of equipment. Now imagine that magic doesn't work with something silly and easily rechargeable like a "mana" or "MP" statistic. Instead, each spell has its own quantity, up to a 100 max. Now imagine that each time you use a spell, your quantity of that spell decreases with one and as such the statistic bounded to that type of magic gets weaker. And imagine that every time you use a spell, you've got to go and find an enemy that has that specific spell, so you can draw it from him again. For each of your 6 characters. At an average 0 - 3 spells a pop for the stronger (and actually useful) magic and an average 6 - 11 spells a pop for the weaker (and pretty useless) magic.

Welcome to hell.

Or... you used your refinement abilities with the massive amounts of 'vendor trash' the monsters drop that you can't sell anyways, turned them into spells, and saved drawing for the GFs, and one spell at the end of the game just to see it.

I mean, yeah, you COULD draw 100 cure spells, or you could buy 15 cottages with your salary, turn them into 100 curaga spells, and never think about it again. Turn the Sacred card into dino bones, now you have 2000 quake spells, more than enough to last the entire game. When you get to Esther, buy Hypnocrowns, turn them into aura stones, which then become Aura spells.

And that's without playing the card game.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Drawing magic in Final Fantasy 8?

This! Dear God, this!

They actually invented a whole new kind of grinding with the "draw magic"-mechanic. And why? Just so they could fuel the most paradoxical stat-enhancing mechanic ever.

Imagine if magic wasn't just a series of spells used to attack, heal or buff; but also a form of equipment. Now imagine that magic doesn't work with something silly and easily rechargeable like a "mana" or "MP" statistic. Instead, each spell has its own quantity, up to a 100 max. Now imagine that each time you use a spell, your quantity of that spell decreases with one and as such the statistic bounded to that type of magic gets weaker. And imagine that every time you use a spell, you've got to go and find an enemy that has that specific spell, so you can draw it from him again. For each of your 6 characters. At an average 0 - 3 spells a pop for the stronger (and actually useful) magic and an average 6 - 11 spells a pop for the weaker (and pretty useless) magic.

Welcome to hell.

Or... you used your refinement abilities with the massive amounts of 'vendor trash' the monsters drop that you can't sell anyways, turned them into spells, and saved drawing for the GFs, and one spell at the end of the game just to see it.

I mean, yeah, you COULD draw 100 cure spells, or you could buy 15 cottages with your salary, turn them into 100 curaga spells, and never think about it again. Turn the Sacred card into dino bones, now you have 2000 quake spells, more than enough to last the entire game. When you get to Esther, buy Hypnocrowns, turn them into aura stones, which then become Aura spells.

And that's without playing the card game.

Yes, well, you could spent hours on end drawing Holy and Flare from Diablos by beating him over level 30. And you could spent a lot of time drawing Aura for everyone when fighting Seifer on disc 3.

...And, be honest, most people who knew how to play probably did.

Sure, the refinement system lets you cut a lot of corners. Especially when you have Card Refinement and spent way too much time playing Triple Triad to get the CC group on the Ragnarok in disc 4. This doesn't take away that for many spells, you still have to grind by drawing - especially near the beginning.

The ability to cut corners does not exactly make the mechanic any less paradoxical. (Mind you, all things considered, I still liked playing FF VIII. It's not the best in the series, but at least it were "better days".)